hello from allanon the other "truth"

[Kinetic IV]

I don't call that a pack of lies Obscurotron, I call that a simple matter of timing. I missed seeing you there and there's nothing more to it. So no, you didn't waste your time in replying.

I really don't enjoy ripping into your group. And for the past few months /years I had information that led me to believe you were nothing but a bunch of whiny assed playa racers who were hiding behind an environmental shield to protect your precious playa dragrstrip. The lack of interest in fighting Granite Fox didn't exactly change my mind either.

But...and I want this to stand out, my opinions have done a complete 180 shift thanks to an overflight of the Black Rock Desert coupled with a seat of the pants playa crossing that took me from the 12 mile entrance over to Sulphur or pretty close...I saw things. I felt things or make that my suspension sure felt things. And a friendly group of windsurfers did their part to enlighten me too. And while I haven't sided with your group I am going back and taking a look at your arguments again. I believe based on my direct observations that there's some truth in there. But I'm from Missouri, you have to literally show me. That's been done. And so let it be known that my position on this may shift dramatically over the coming weeks. Once I look back at my video footage, my G-force meters and tons of metrics you may have a new ally on your side. I love the event....but I can't argue with what my ass felt and my eyes saw going across the open playa this year.

[respecttheplanet]

I really don't enjoy ripping into your group. And for the past few months /years I had information that led me to believe you were nothing but a bunch of whiny assed playa racers who were hiding behind an environmental shield to protect your precious playa dragrstrip. The lack of interest in fighting Granite Fox didn't exactly change my mind either.

Couple clarifications: Some of us have *never* raced on the playa. Some of us have never owned a Neon. Of the whole group, only a couple actually own or have owned Neons and raced on the playa. The playa racing ceased many years ago.

We also have a very definite interest in the Granite Fox project. To say that we are dismissing the impact of the proposed power plant would be untrue. We're very concerned about the project and its impacts, but the subject matter isn't really relevant to the stopburningman.org website itself. We're currently working on putting information about the Granite Fox project online, but on a different website.

Thanks!

[obscurotron]

I don't call that a pack of lies Obscurotron, I call that a simple matter of timing. I missed seeing you there and there's nothing more to it. So no, you didn't waste your time in replying.

I really don't enjoy ripping into your group. And for the past few months /years I had information that led me to believe you were nothing but a bunch of whiny assed playa racers who were hiding behind an environmental shield to protect your precious playa dragrstrip. The lack of interest in fighting Granite Fox didn't exactly change my mind either.

But...and I want this to stand out, my opinions have done a complete 180 shift thanks to an overflight of the Black Rock Desert coupled with a seat of the pants playa crossing that took me from the 12 mile entrance over to Sulphur or pretty close...I saw things. I felt things or make that my suspension sure felt things. And a friendly group of windsurfers did their part to enlighten me too. And while I haven't sided with your group I am going back and taking a look at your arguments again. I believe based on my direct observations that there's some truth in there. But I'm from Missouri, you have to literally show me. That's been done. And so let it be known that my position on this may shift dramatically over the coming weeks. Once I look back at my video footage, my G-force meters and tons of metrics you may have a new ally on your side. I love the event....but I can't argue with what my ass felt and my eyes saw going across the open playa this year.

I take it you are referring to the playa serpents and to the landsailer folks camped almost due north of Trego? They're good folks. In fact, I encourage you to listen to them and hear them out, even if you aren't wanting to listen to any of us. I forget the guys name, but he drives an older white Ford pickup, has some grey whiskers, and a cool German shorthair pointer doggy. He's a pretty decent guy, from my interactions with him.

You also should not be so quick to say that we aren't doing anything about Granite Fox power plant. All of us are actually involved with Nevada Clean Energy. As organizing began against the power plant (a subgroup of us made a dedicated trip to see John Bogard out at Planet X to come up to speed, which makes sense as he's going to be right under that damn stack) on the matter. Once we did and got in touch with other like-minded folks, it was painfully obvious that the 10 or so of us would be of very little use on our own, and we put our energies behind supporting Nevada Clean Energy, getting their site address out to as many people as possible, and really communicating the impending destruction and waste of a pristine wilderness so that SoCal can have some extra megawatts.

I don't speak for everyone, but given priorities, I want Sempra out of there so bad, I can taste it. They come first right now, because once that plant goes in, we all know it's never ever coming out.

Finally, as for the "Dragstrip" comment, I have to reiterate that you are absolutely 100% off base. Using the playa for anything other than a regular conveyance from Trego to either 12 mile or Black Rock/Double Hot has been, literally, our ONLY use of the playa since 1998. We figured it out back then what we could be doing to the surface and everything else and plain and simple *stopped* doing it. And for that, we have not Dave Cooper, but Mike Bilbo, to thank. None of us race anymore, let alone on the playa. I realize some people here want to hold that against Rex from now until eternity. Can't stop them, I suppose.

As for your run from 12 mile to Sulphur. That can be treacherous (and it would have had you run past Trego, not near it) at the wrong time of year. But it can be a pretty drive, and the multi-colored tailings of Hycroft make for a decent navigational landmark. Hopefully you stopped at Lewis Camp, past Hycroft, for a look around. That's a neat old site.

[Badger]

I would expect nothing less from a bureaucrat.

Unless it served your pourpose - asshat.

[Kinetic IV]

Get your ass to Mississippi and shut the hell up. They need your hands and we don't need your mouth.

[allanon2]

You want laughs? You should have heard what Dave Cooper, Manager of the BLM Region, had to say about the vile-a-non during the event this year.

It was a piss your pants with laughter moment and I don't even think Dave meant it to be.

I have heard one other version and it was quite interesting.

so please tell us what Mr. Cooper said as I am sure everyone wants to hear this version. I am the usual but of many jokes hear.
ttyl
allanon aka rex

[EvilDustBooger]

................................deep breath.......................................................


...........................Aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!...........................................

.......................So nice to be back on the Eplaya!


carry on.

[obscurotron]

I would expect nothing less from a bureaucrat.

Unless it served your pourpose - asshat.

"Asshat". What a truly witty and well-thought retort. I must say, I'm crushed. I think I'll go cry in my jar of mustard now.

When you come up with something intelligent to say, please do so.

[obscurotron]

Get your ass to Mississippi and shut the hell up. They need your hands and we don't need your mouth.

For the record, I can't pack up and leave town to go help those poor souls on the Gulf Coast. So I'vedone the next best thing - made sure ARC has our money with which they can hopefully do some good, and since a number of local bay area shelters are housing displaced animals (hopefully just until owners can get settled and claim them, in most cases), we're contributing time (cleaning cages on Saturday mornings - fun!), effort (transporting animals to/from airports, long-distance vanpools, vet. med. specialists), money (well, animal food and supplies) and space (fostering dogs).

It's not much by itself, but every little bit helps. So yeah, I've been busy.

[Kinetic IV]

Sorry for the confusion, my comment was directed at my arch-nemesis online, Badger. Obscurotron, I apologize and am sorry that I didn't clarify or use quotes and left you thinking that was meant for you.

[Fat SAM]

I think I'll go cry in my jar of mustard now.

That's pretty damn funny...I'm gonna use that.

[EvilDustBooger]

I think I'll go cry in my jar of mustard now.

That's pretty damn funny...I'm gonna use that.

Heh heh.
Paints a pretty funny picture.
Brings a tear to my eye when I think about it too much.

[TheJudge]

Lets get back to the issue:

What proof does Rex's gang have the Burning Man causes playa serpents? Answer: nothing. I have a xeroxed field guide on the Black Rock Desert written several years before Burning Man stepped foot across that line in the dirt that shows playa serpents as a naturally occuring artifact of the flat playa.

You know those dunes that are to the north of Frog Pond? (the ones I believe La Contessa ran aground on) They were made LONG before Burning Man was out there.

Show me the truth. So far, all anyone from Rex's group does is stir up the shit storm, get everyone pissed off and then they run away, dissappearing for several months, only to pop back on the e-playa later to stir up the shit storm again for the next year. Its getting old.

[theCryptofishist]

So my dilemma is whether to let his/their lies go unchallanged, which goes against my grain, or to just let him hang there and twist in the wind and hope that no one misconstrues my silence as consent.

As I've said before there's no evidence that anyone's been "converted" by the stopborgers.

But I'm a nasty little terrier dog who wants to keep shaking her head until that rat stops squeaking and dies already...

[allanon2]

Lets get back to the issue:

What proof does Rex's gang have the Burning Man causes playa serpents? Answer: nothing. I have a xeroxed field guide on the Black Rock Desert written several years before Burning Man stepped foot across that line in the dirt that shows playa serpents as a naturally occuring artifact of the flat playa.

You know those dunes that are to the north of Frog Pond? (the ones I believe La Contessa ran aground on) They were made LONG before Burning Man was out there.

Show me the truth. So far, all anyone from Rex's group does is stir up the shit storm, get everyone pissed off and then they run away, dissappearing for several months, only to pop back on the e-playa later to stir up the shit storm again for the next year. Its getting old.

message about playa serpents coming soon. not from me as you will just bash it. so be on the look out about playa serpents.

[allanon2]

So my dilemma is whether to let his/their lies go unchallanged, which goes against my grain, or to just let him hang there and twist in the wind and hope that no one misconstrues my silence as consent.

As I've said before there's no evidence that anyone's been "converted" by the stopborgers.

But I'm a nasty little terrier dog who wants to keep shaking her head until that rat stops squeaking and dies already...

I still have people that think I am nto the rex scates that teaches in San Jose.

but yes we have many converts. and next year when the permit comes up we will have a nice push and see if we can get BLM to pay attention. But are they bought? all that money is sure enticing. and is that money being spent directl;y on the playa or is it going to pay saleries? Special permit fees have certain stipulations

[allanon2]

Lets get back to the issue:

What proof does Rex's gang have the Burning Man causes playa serpents? Answer: nothing. I have a xeroxed field guide on the Black Rock Desert written several years before Burning Man stepped foot across that line in the dirt that shows playa serpents as a naturally occuring artifact of the flat playa.

You know those dunes that are to the north of Frog Pond? (the ones I believe La Contessa ran aground on) They were made LONG before Burning Man was out there.

Show me the truth. So far, all anyone from Rex's group does is stir up the shit storm, get everyone pissed off and then they run away, dissappearing for several months, only to pop back on the e-playa later to stir up the shit storm again for the next year. Its getting old.

they are big dunes that are now permaent structures cause they never go under water.
the playa serpents are much smaller and caused by loose soil that comes from the BM even area and gets blown aroudn the lake bed. the BM event area is much lower than the suroundign area and that missign mass much go somewhere and its to the pliya serpents. they got pretty smashed this year from all the water but they were still around
ttyl
rex

[EvilDustBooger]

Lets get back to the issue:

Show me the truth.

The truth IMHO
Is that this little group with the semi-illiterate spokesman has no more effect on BurningMan`s future
than those pesky little gnats that buzz around a Bisons ass has on it`s ability to chew grass or kick up praire dust..

The true power "allowing" BurningMan to be reborn anually, lives in it`s creators, promoters and participants.

If for whatever reason the Government should decide to refuse the use
of public lands for the event. The Event, no doubt would come to life in another (if not dozens) of other areas . It hasn`t just appeared magically
for all these years...it is the result of some very skillful planning, designing and execution by very clever individuals and groups. It has adapted to allow for change, and has survived alot of resistance....
....it`s biggest challenge I believe is dealing with the ridiculous regimentation of our nation`s faceless bureaucratic controllers.

No. 2 seems to be the JOTS situation.

It`s "Our Baby"!!

It`s been conceived, and it WILL live in the thousands of us that create it every year.

So please forgive me if I don`t take this particular thread too seriously.....
for me, this is strictly entertainment.

[TheJudge]

message about playa serpents coming soon. not from me as you will just bash it. so be on the look out about playa serpents.

Only if it looks like it was written by my cat. (Actually, I think my cat may be a better speller.)

If your argument is based on FACT, not whiney conjecture, bring it on. I'd be happy to read it.

[obscurotron]

message about playa serpents coming soon. not from me as you will just bash it. so be on the look out about playa serpents.

Only if it looks like it was written by my cat. (Actually, I think my cat may be a better speller.)

If your argument is based on FACT, not whiney conjecture, bring it on. I'd be happy to read it.

(formatting is horked because, oddly, the first posting of this was deleted by someone other than me. How neat!)

Well, let's start with the presumably unbiased observations of various folks
who post and communicate over at 3playa.

First:

Taniwha - Sep 14 2005, 2:17PM profile - link - bookmark - plonk
I've driven thru the BM site months before the burn every year since it's
been there (except this one sadly) - the compaction is pretty obvious if
you're looking. The playa surface is changing, esp downwind (north) of the
location with a lot more playa serpents forming every year making it pretty
much impossible to drive fast through that area any more (I be the land
sailing people who used to sometimes camp in the middle of the serpent field
are pissed!). There's also been a softer area north of the serpent fields
forming - that may have more to do with the lack of full flooding of the
playa (I suspect it's more a case of frost bloom).

It used to be that serpents were just forming downwind of the left and right
sides of the BM site, these days though they're right across the entire
area.

On the good side DPW's taken to squishing a bunch of the serpents during
cleanup ... probably just moves them further north though.

This weekend we (the rocket people, but sadly not me this year) are off to
the playa - years ago we stopped going at labor weekend because of BM -
nowdays everyone gripes about all the dust that blows into our launch site
from the DPW cleanup (sometimes when its really windy you just have to lock
yourself in your car, other times it just creates a general haze).

Second: (an independent assertion of playa serpent/transient dune locale
prior to and concurrent with the event)

Taniwha - Sep 14 2005, 2:49PM profile - link - bookmark - plonk
<b>Bob - there used to be no serpents south of BM in the years before it
moved there</b> (there did used to be a few slightly south of the current
site probably from the road that comes from the first entrance down towards
Trego).

Remember 10-mile didn't exist until relatively recently - and I don't think
the 10-mile has much effect except during the burn (most people I know use
the other two entrances anyway - 10 mile doesn't really take you anywhere
usefull that 12 mile doesn't already).

I do agree that 12-mile and the road north from it do cause some dust - but
I suspect much of that ends up off-playa (and BTW these days there is a line
of serpents forming slightly east of it, <b>those are particularly recent in
an area that has often been a late lake in the past)</b> - when stuck in a
rain storm at dusk and deciding to sleep over I've sought them out as
somewhere no one would hit me in the dark

Third: (though our angsty friend from the Stanford Linear Accelerator group
won't say so here, he says interesting things in other places):

Badger - Sep 14 2005, 3:29PM profile - link - bookmark - plonk
Hey Bob, how was Burning Man for you this year?

I have a hard time believing that. I saw what looked like a lot of pits and
shallow holes that looked older then just one season. They had cracks on the
surface, and it was compacted. I would also guess that there is an increase
in the playa snakes, but I have no first hand knowledge of any of this, save
what I saw the one week a year I'm there.

<b>Interesting that you note that. Someone casually mentione the pits around
BRC ~1' dia. After that I started noticing them EVERYWHERE. Never had
noticed them before. Not sure what they are I guess I'll have to contact Rex
Scat Scates for an informed update. I'm sure it has everything to do with
pissing on the playa.</b>
<i>NB: Whether it has to do with urination or postholes, they were not there
before the event was being held in that locale. </i>

Fouth: (interesting observation)

stu - Sep 14 2005, 4:40PM profile - link - bookmark - plonk
First camping rule: Check your boots.
I zigged when I should have zagged while driving off the playa during the
July 4th weekend this year, and I'm pretty sure I could tell when I drove
across the city footprint. There was lots of stuff lying around, like balls
of duct tape, glowsticks and other such things.

au revoir et amore

<i>NB: or should we dismiss this as belonging to someone else? (the MOOP,
that is).</i>

Fifth: (remember the rebar and stakes we've been talking about, but no one
believed in?)

geekster - Sep 10 2005, 3:02PM profile - link - bookmark - plonk
Will eat for food.
Yeah, and I ran into a t-stake while riding my bike that was sticking about
8-inches out of the playa. That would have probably been the thursday or
friday before the event. It sure looked like a little "landmine" put there
just for that purpose if you ask me. Who the fuck would cut a t-stake off
that low to the ground? That thing was a tire shreader just waiting to be
hit. It caught my right bike pedal and caused me to go skidding across the
playa. I also found a piece of rebar sticking out about 2 or 3 inches. It
wasn't a candycane either, it was just a straight piece of rebar sticking
straight up. This was before anyone had arrived in those areas. I don't see
how that stuff could be "buried by dust" and missed. Sure as hell looked
intentional to me. I pulled out the rebar and tried to find the t-stake the
next day so I could mark it with a caution tape flag but was unable to find
it. I guess I will have a GPS next time.

ETA: I guess that stuff could be left over from juplaya or others using the
area before the event if the area isn't dragged before the streets are laid
out.
<i>NB: could be leftovers from someone else, but unlikely. Read on</i>

Sixth: (wow)

III - Sep 10 2005, 5:26PM profile - link - bookmark - plonk
NOT MY CAMEL!
<b>juplaya is held somewhere else entirely. </b>

<b>that stuff is probably all left from the previous year</b> - as bob
points out, there are many hundreds of acres to cover, and if someone
decides to pound a stake in all the way, or hacksaw it off at ground level,
it can be easy to miss. over the winter, the playa softens up and floats
that stuff out, so the next year round it'll be sticking out a couple of
inches.

it's amazing how much of that stuff is left behind - when i did cleanup, one
of my duties was pulling out shit that got left behind. (i could do about
twice as many, by hand using assorted tools as el circus mano could using a
bobcat in the same time.) it was amazing how many people would just decide
to either leave it, or worse yet try to hide or disguise what was left
behind.<b> i have no doubt that i missed many pieces. </b>

my favorite extraction ever was a 10 ft piece of rebar someone had pounded
in so that there was only 1 1/2 feet sticking out. i know which camp it was,
too, because i saw the standing on a ladder early in the week in order to
pound it in. odd thing is, they were a usually really diligent about cleanup
kinda camp...
<i>NB: I've only pulled out 2.5-3 foot sections of rebar. 10 feet.
Wow.</i>

Seventh: (more moop, instructions included!)

geekster - Sep 10 2005, 1:35PM profile - link - bookmark - plonk
Will eat for food.
Thought I might mention ... when we were building our little thing out
there, we found a boatload of old moop. Screws, nails, spikes pounded in the
playa. Some of it in neat little piles like a box of screws had tipped over.
All of it very rusty and crusty. I would say nearly half the random moop we
picked up from walking the site appeared to be from years past. Does anyone
do an "inspection" of the various installation placements? I think there was
even a color 8x10 glossy photograph with circles and arrows and a paragraph
on the back explaining what it was buried under that 1/2 ton of garbage.

Eigth: (thanks Chai Guy, this is a good datapoint to reinforce some of what
we've been saying)

Chai Guy - Sep 10 2005, 1:51PM profile - link - bookmark - plonk
This isn't Nam. There are rules here!
<b>Yeah, that's weird. Very early in the week (on monday am) I found 7
(seven!) pieces of rebar that were just barely visible in the road. I
guessed from the rust and the fact that they were barely visisble(and in the
middle of the road) that they had been leftover from last year. </b>

eta: they were pounded in rebar stakes with just the tops showing, just
wanted to clarify that
<i>NB: sure, it was found. But not when it was originally supposed to be.
Thanks for making the playa an unsafe place to drive a motor vehicle from
Trego to 12 mile or 3 mile. That's swell, guys!</i>

Ninth:

Badger - Jan 26 2004, 8:55PM profile - link - plonk
Hey Bob, how was Burning Man for you this year?

Indeed.

Been spending the last three hours or so delving (and I mean digging) into
all the links the SBM site has referenced. Some VERY interesting stuff comes
up.

Won't go into detail but the references, posts, BLM docs are quite
interesting in what they say. More importantly is what they don't say and
how what's NOT said is inferred by the fuckos as grist for their little
mill. As I and others have suspected, a good deal of these reports are
indeed being taken wholly out of context. Fortunately, this isn't subjective
analysis on my part lest my points be considered slanted and or biased.

Suffice it to say the C4 will be placed at my convienience.
<i>NB: If it wasn't for inference, places like the SLAC wouldn't exist,
would they. Was Mr. Heisenberg seeing electrons?? No. Quantum physics
proves its existence through several theories and calculations. Amazing how
some inferences are OK, and some are not. Hypocrite.</i>

Tenth: (riddle me this)

III - Jul 06 2005, 6:28AM profile - link - bookmark - plonk
NOT MY CAMEL!
we ran into some seriously deep frost bloom on the north west wing of the
playa - it was deep enough that badger had to turn around because he didn't
want to get his panel van stuck in it. a saturn would have gotten stuck in
the fluff. less than a mile to the east, there was mud. i got a little stuck
crossing a wash where skillet had chewed it up going ahead, but he was nice
enough to tow me through. decided to pick our way through the edge of the
dunes on the way back. probably violated all sorts of wilderness
restrictions in the process. i expect the playa to loosen up quite a bit by
the time the event rolls around - it just doesn't stay that way with 30,000
people messing around on it.

<i>NB: So wait a second. You're going to bitch at US for 4 Dodge Neons
driving on the playa at >55MPH in <b> 1997</b>, but offroading on the dunes,
which do support plant and animal life, is just OK?! Talk about your
garden-variety hypocrites! And no, that's NOT a concession that the playa
itself is not part of the ecosystem and therefore life sustaining. </i>

<b> Anyway, thanks for all the fodder, guys. That's just what I have time
to fit in this reply. There are facts in there. There are observations in
there. Do those observations support our claims? Yes, they do.

It will be really interesting to see how you all go about dismissing,
minimizing or otherwise negating the comments from other users on 3playa.

And using the Iraqi Information Minister to help you is cheating.

[DVD]

message about playa serpents coming soon. not from me as you will just bash it. so be on the look out about playa serpents. :)

Only if it looks like it was written by my cat. (Actually, I think my cat may be a better speller.)

If your argument is based on FACT, not whiney conjecture, bring it on. I'd be happy to read it.

(formatting is horked because, oddly, the first posting of this was deleted by someone other than me. How neat!)

Well, let's start with the presumably unbiased observations of various folks
who post and communicate over at 3playa.

It will be really interesting to see how you all go about dismissing,
minimizing or otherwise negating the comments from other users on 3playa.

And using the Iraqi Information Minister to help you is cheating.

Well, I'll just say that having read the snippets or what ever appears at the link allanon2 posted- there seem to be enormous holes in the conclusions. To point out that someone may use a nefarious spokesman of the damned as a crutch for their argument to lean on- well, you maybe frustrated but that's not needed or helpful- especially when you are guilty of twisting what appears to be evidence to fit your conclusions.

Just a bit of a question to send you off with- how long has global warming been going on?

(Answer hint: It depends on who you ask.)

[Kinetic IV]

Im going to take this post and apologize to every member of the Stop BM group but especially Allanon. Now I have issues with his spelling which won't be changing. But I was wrong in the way I've treated him, my posts were wrong and based on inaccurate information, and if I attack in public I should apologize and eat my plate of crow in public. And that's what this post is intended to accomplish.

I live in Missouri which is known as the show me state. I stay skeptical until I'm shown something. Well my drive out from 12 mile showed me a bunch of things and made me call into question a lot of things. When it's said and done I've shifted my mindset about these people. I had to. I can't change what I saw and what my ass felt riding across there. And so here I am writing this post and saying that their arguments deserve a second look.

Allanon, again I apologize to you and I assure you in public that you won't be seeing any more ripping posts directed from me to you. By posting this I'm going on the record so I can be held accountable...it means promises made will become promises kept.

[EvilDustBooger]

------------tick--------tick--------


-------proper theme music insert here--------
(maybe "Thus Schprok Zherathustra")


countdown to the Minutia Explosions....


....more details all next week!!!!


And Now
The secret exorcize that will make you live for 20 XTRA Years!

Scroll Down....







































































































































































Keep going......
























































































































































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OK That`s enough for the first try.
Scroll back up and have a beer.
You are on your way to a healthier pathology!



Love You!!!!!!!

[allanon2]

Im going to take this post and apologize to every member of the Stop BM group but especially Allanon. Now I have issues with his spelling which won't be changing. But I was wrong in the way I've treated him, my posts were wrong and based on inaccurate information, and if I attack in public I should apologize and eat my plate of crow in public. And that's what this post is intended to accomplish.

I live in Missouri which is known as the show me state. I stay skeptical until I'm shown something. Well my drive out from 12 mile showed me a bunch of things and made me call into question a lot of things. When it's said and done I've shifted my mindset about these people. I had to. I can't change what I saw and what my ass felt riding across there. And so here I am writing this post and saying that their arguments deserve a second look.

Allanon, again I apologize to you and I assure you in public that you won't be seeing any more ripping posts directed from me to you. By posting this I'm going on the record so I can be held accountable...it means promises made will become promises kept.

for themselves. as was shown on the post below yours people will do anythign to hide information if it goes against BM. That guy below your post just posted blank space to confuse people and try to be funny.

I apreciate your honesty and thank you for being open to new ideas.

ttyl
rex

[allanon2]

They just try to change the subject becuase they were caught red handed and questioned about it and instead of talking about the problem they just goof off and be anoying.
I have students try this every day and it does not work. Nice try thou.
sigh hipocrits when caught with a possible new truth.

ttyl
rex

------------tick--------tick--------


-------proper theme music insert here--------
(maybe "Thus Schprok Zherathustra")


countdown to the Minutia Explosions....


....more details all next week!!!!


And Now
The secret exorcize that will make you live for 20 XTRA Years!

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OK That`s enough for the first try.
Scroll back up and have a beer.
You are on your way to a healthier pathology!



Love You!!!!!!!

[EvilDustBooger]

That guy below your post just posted blank space

It`s Twue
It`s all Twue




















































































































































































































































































Evwy Wood is Twue.

[allanon2]

http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 367#182367

this is not a cross post just moving part of this conversation to a new area. This orinal post series was just me saying hello and with this new information I feel it deserves its own topic to be discussed on its own merits.

Im going to take this post and apologize to every member of the Stop BM group but especially Allanon. Now I have issues with his spelling which won't be changing. But I was wrong in the way I've treated him, my posts were wrong and based on inaccurate information, and if I attack in public I should apologize and eat my plate of crow in public. And that's what this post is intended to accomplish.

I live in Missouri which is known as the show me state. I stay skeptical until I'm shown something. Well my drive out from 12 mile showed me a bunch of things and made me call into question a lot of things. When it's said and done I've shifted my mindset about these people. I had to. I can't change what I saw and what my ass felt riding across there. And so here I am writing this post and saying that their arguments deserve a second look.

Allanon, again I apologize to you and I assure you in public that you won't be seeing any more ripping posts directed from me to you. By posting this I'm going on the record so I can be held accountable...it means promises made will become promises kept.

[allanon2]

That guy below your post just posted blank space

It`s Twue
It`s all Twue


e.

as i have said for years you cant hide the truth forever sooner or later it will come out just like it right now.

ttyl
allanon

[EvilDustBooger]

I really wasn`t trying to confuse anyone.
It`s just a stale little thread.
I thought it could use a little extemporascatalogisarcasm.
Just to make it more entertaining to Me Personally.

And please accept my profound apology if something I have said
here has swayed anyones opinions about your very prescient warnings.

....Your anecdotal proof , to me, was no more convincing than everyones vitriolic responses.....for ages now , tit has been smacking tat to no avail...

Oh.......and thank you Al..... "I" am now refered to as "they"....teehee...
....that made me feel so much more menacing over the WWW to see you call me "they"....
....I`ll consider it an augmentation to my "E"-go.

[Neutrality]

you will see many people bashing me and saying what we say on our website is a lie well take a look for yourself and see the other truth
www.stopburningman.org

we are a open society correct? we like conversation and freedom of speach.

Excuse me while I drop over laughing. Hey, Rex, whatever happened to messages 586 through 629 on the stop burningman list? Isn't it interesting, the way in which when the discussion started going against your side, the whole inconvenient thread just magically disappeared from the archives? Anybody who doubts this is invited to sign up and notice that message 630 immediately follows message 585 in those archives.

An amazing discussion it was, too, so much happening in it and almost all of it incredibly stupid. Somebody asked the regulars on the list if they had any evidence in support of their reports of what they saw on those transect walks. Some had the actual nerve to claim Ed Howersheit ("Obscurotron") and Rex Scates of stopburningman.org as witnesses in support of what their own site is saying. How was that any different from saying "just take our word for it"? We were never told.

Dave Cooper of BLM, Maid Marian of the LLC and Metric from ePlaya were cited as witnesses. This same skeptical individual wondered about this list out loud. "Um, Ed", he asked, "isn't that the same Dave Cooper you just accused of libeling your group? And you're listing him as a reference?!" or words to that effect. Hard to be sure of the exact phrasing, because these same people who are waxing so outraged about BMORG's alleged censorship wiped out that chunk of their own archives. At any rate, the entire argument from Rex's camp seemed to consist of the assertion that these three people had seen what Ed and Rex were referring to and knew that what they were saying was true, and if they said otherwise, that was only because they were lying.

In other words, we were supposed to go ask these people what they saw, but ignore what they had to say, themselves, and just listen to what Ed and Rex said that they're really thinking? Huh? Again, how was that any different from "just take our word for it". Anybody who asked this, however, was subjected to long, profanity laced tirades about their alleged stupidity. The "emperor's new clothes" gambit on steroids.

Guess who one of the offending parties was? None other than our good friend Rex, the one who is whining about how his freedom of speech is being denied by other people's personal attacks, right now. Hey, Rex! Just how many of your posts to ePlaya got deleted by the moderators? Do the words "look who's talking" mean anything to you, my hypocritical friend?

So take a look and I think our site speaks for itself.

It sure does, Rex. It sure does. So many great moments in that discussion, like the one where you complained because one of your detractors referred to you as being a bad spokesman for your cause, and you and Ed tried to hairsplit about the word "spokesman", and claim it didn't apply to you. Remember that claim that nobody had ever claimed that you represented anybody or anything? Let's take a look at this archived copy of your site from Sept.24, 2004, and take a look at the bottom of the page

Questions regarding site content: Rex Scates

You guys just can't help throwing the bull, can you? As somebody observed, "liars lie, because that's what they do", that is, they don't even seem to need a reason to do so, it's just compulsive behavior on their part. As liars go, Ed, you guys are downright pathological.