Did you register an Art Car that you aren't building now?

tundratommy · Post by **tundratommy** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:45 pm

Because due to a "snafu" the person who was supposed to register our art car didn't. Now, we're too late.

We're still planning to build the car even if it just sits in camp.

But ifwe combined your registration with our car, we'd have, like, a Reese Peanut Butter Cup!

Can you help Random Pizza Experience take our thang mobile?

Feel free to contact me directly at:
tom (at) kramertown (dot) com

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:26 pm

But ifwe combined your registration with our car, we'd have, like, a Reese Peanut Butter Cup!

Um, it doesn't work like that.

Approval of mutant vehicles is based on the merits of the proposal submitted to BRC DMV. It isn't like a title you can transfer from one owner to another.

Remember if you bring an unregistered mutant vehicle to the event it does in fact have to stay parked. But you know that already.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:39 pm

If they are clever or charismatic enough they could pull off the switch.

Toolmaker · Post by **Toolmaker** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:46 pm

You have my blessing. Go forth and subvert the BORG attempts at pizza suppression. We will not be assimilated.. We will have pizza.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:45 pm

If they are clever or charismatic enough they could pull off the switch.

Not really, because like early ins there's there's a list. A confirmation that has all appropriate info on it (car type, license#, serial number, etc., etc.) Showing up to the DMV for a permit issued to another person will get you snagged if you try to game the system. You'll be told to park the vehicle for the duration of the event and reminded that driving it further without a permit can, as a minimum, be grounds to have it parked at the gate outside of the city and in a worst case be asked to leave the event.

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:46 pm

DMV is serious about this. As are the Rangers.

Be warned.

Archantael · Post by **Archantael** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:13 pm

So what happens if the normally stationary art car is parked in a theme camp that runs out of space and the art car has to be moved? Will the driver be harassed for moving it under those circumstances if it's going from Point A to Point B on a back street? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm simply asking for clarification on the policy.

ibdave · Post by **ibdave** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:18 pm

Don't un-registered art cars get placed in the impound yard next to "gate" ???

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:19 pm

If you try to tow a mutant vehicle through the gate without valid paperwork it will get impounded. Officially, "I'm just going to leave it parked at camp, I promise!" is not an option with towed/trailered vehicles. Too many people abused this sort of trust and now it's gone.

Here are the options I'm aware of:
Email the DMV RIGHT NOW and show them pictures of your car, which I'm sure is the most amazing thing they've ever seen. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll have good suggestions for you.
Drive it all the way there and through the gate, and take it in to DMV and be really apologetic. Bring lots of bribes.
Tow it in, be totally upfront with the gate people. Visit DMV and be totally upfront with them, and beg for someone to go to the impound lot and inspect it there. Bring bribes, and don't be a dick. May or may not work.

Trying to be sneaky will just piss people off. People with the power to make sure you never get to drive the thing on the playa.

tundratommy · Post by **tundratommy** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:26 pm

Thanks for all the legit advice. Truly appreciated...

I'm not trying to game the system as much as bring joy to the citizens.

Dork, solid advice. Hmm, bribes... what could a camp with a bunch of fresh pizzas offer as bribes...

FYI, we emailed DMV already and they shot us down...rules, or something.

Toolmaker...come see us at 3:30 & Boreal...practically down the street from Gigsville...

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:06 am

...the rules are simple. And well communicated. If you cannot follow rule one (pre-register before July), what other rules are you willing to ignore? (I know, everyone thought it had been done).

Not a flame, just looking at it from DMV's point of view. They are overworked dealing with day-to-day hassles from art cars that did register on time, as well as the BLM and everyone else. If they had to also consider late applications (all very cool, no doubt), they could not do the job at all.

I'm sure you have a great car, and we will all miss it this year. Next year have the owner do the registration personally. And keep the invite inh a fire proof safe. In April.

Archantael · Post by **Archantael** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:20 am

I've always thought the art car permitting process in it's current form is overly restrictive. Yes it encourages planning, yadda, yadda, shut the hell up. Not everyone can plan stuff 6 months in advance. Life happens and it sure seems to love happening at the last minute or close to it.

But maybe there's an opportunity here. If we apply the ticket sales concept to the art car mess, perhaps the ORG might be sold on implementing a "late application fee" just like they ramp up ticket prices for those who can't buy tickets in advance. I admit I'm one of those this year for regular tix...I'll be buying two $280 tickets on the last day that I can because that's just how it's working out. But back to the art cars, how about charging $100 and up for those last minute applications? Or maybe $280 at the gate? Someone on the org could always put the simoleons to good use, say have it earmarked as a donation to BRAF?
(If BRAF donations are not acceptable I'd be willing to negotiate with bottles of Patron or the libation of choice if given a list of what's preferred)

It's just a thought...from someone who specializes in the last minute planning thing despite giving his best effort to avoid such things.

tundratommy · Post by **tundratommy** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:12 am

i love the last minute reg process, with extra costs. Nice alignment.

I understand the DMV point of view.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:50 am

car type, license#, serial number,

Can those all not be replaced and/or concealed?

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:09 am

As I understand it part of the registration process includes the license of the vehicle that's being mutated. If it's a vehicle that can be driven to the playa then it has to have plates and the associated state DMV registration. If a golf cart or other unlicensed vehicle then a general description is needed. finally, the actual BRC DMV permit is issued ONLY after the vehicle is assembled as described in the initial permitting process and taken to the DMV camp for inspection and verification. The process is a bit more elaborate than it once was due to so many folk trying to get away with doing little to nothing as far as creating what they initially proposed. I suspect that there may be a few instances in which a vehicle slips under the process but Odwayy the head of DMV and his crew are pretty savvy. Mind you this may NOT be the exact procedure that DMV is working under this year but if anything their process will be more refined and efficient so that gamers will find it hard to cheat the system.

EB · Post by EB » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:12 am

But maybe there's an opportunity here. If we apply the ticket sales concept to the art car mess, perhaps the ORG might be sold on implementing a "late application fee" just like they ramp up ticket prices for those who can't buy tickets in advance.

Do you really want to overburden a department responsible for vehicle safety? To make more money?

DJ said: What other rules are you willing to ignore?

100% agree. The sliding ticket scale isn't the paradigm the Borg should be following in regard to Mutant Vehicles. A last minute ticket isn't the same as a last minute art car. An art car can run you over.

Post by **trilobyte** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:19 am

I'm not in favor of late fees. Because that introduces a fee structure into the art car process, something I'd rather not have to do. Building and bringing the vehicle is plenty expensive as it is, I don't need/want the BM Org adding registration fees to the process.

But overall, I'm torn. Jafe brings up a really good point. If the person you guys put in charge of registering the vehicle forgot to do that, what other bad choices/decisions have been made along the way? And if your crew is willing to blindly ignore the first rule of bringing it to the playa (registering it), how many more rules are you going to ignore?

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of over-regulation. Mind you, the BM Org had good reason to do so. After that girl fell off an art car and died in 2003, I think it was clear that if they didn't take some steps the state would intervene.

I'd say that you guys should plan to bring your vehicle out and park it at your camp this year. Once you're on the dust, go talk to some people at the DMV and see if there's a snowball's chance on the playa that you can get a permit. If so, great. But if not, the vehicle will be at your theme camp, and you guys will have a great burn, and next year you'll get your registration in early and all that business.

~Trilo~

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:55 am

I've known people to completely redo vehicles in order to be considered something completely different according to the state DMV. I'm not saying they could just swicth papers, but if they are willing to make their car into a registered car that can't make it, what's the big deal. It would be the registered car, perhaps a little differently than envisioned originally but fitting the registration papers.

It's like that age old George Washington's Axe idea. If he continued to use the axe that cut down the tree until the handle wore out and then replaced it, then years later the head wore out and he replaced the head. Is it still the axe he cut the cherry tree down with? It fills the same space and purpose and was once part of the whole, but is now just different material.

If the DMV would have no way of telling if it was the original car or not, it doesn't matter. That'll take some work, but it may be worth trying to attempt.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:17 pm

I've already asked for pre-approval for my artcar concept for 2008 at the earliest.
And got it.

It's not the same as registering, but it's a start.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:56 pm

Practically speaking, an unregistered art car at BM faces 2 big hurdles to becoming registered.

First is getting it through the gates. If your art car is your travel car, and it arrives essentially normal looking, this will not be a problem. Just drive on through to your camp and go to hurdle #2. If you are trailering a vehicle, you will be stopped at the gate and asked to show pre-approval email letter, which includes your name, vehicle name, a unique ID number, and some other stuff I can't remember. It may be possible to spoof the gate dude with someone elses email, but if you get caught expect the worst. Assuming you have no email, you will be forced to park the offending vehicle in the impound lot before passing through the gate.

Now hurdle #2 - convincing an overworked volunteer group on their vacation to give a rat's ass about your unregistered art project. Here is where charisma and bribes MAYBE will help somewhat. Timing is also key, do not attempt this if they are busy. Your vehicle had better be stunning in concept and execution, and your bribe exceptional. Another possible approach is to bribe a DMV person just to tell you the best approach to take (ideally while they are not working). Finding a DMV person off duty may be difficult. If you have a good excuse for why it wasn't registered that couldn't hurt, but do not lie. Be contrite, show you understand the normal process, demonstrate you value their time and insite, and maybe (doubtful) but maybe they will take pity on you. Remember, in order to look at your vehicle they have to travel a mile to the impound lot, then back again. While they are doing this, they cannot be helping the other people that did pre-register, etc.

But, if your vehicle isn't stunning in it's concept and execution, you aren't charismatic or your bribe fails to impress, or you go at the wrong time or talk to the wrong person, forget it.

"I won't lie to you about your chances, but you have my sympathies"

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:51 pm

Pretty good overview there Dragonfly.

One thing that's been itching a bit with this and a few other threads I've read lately and that's the use of the word 'bribe.' I hear it a LOT when the topic is related to DPW folk. Usually when someone is suggesting how to get things done once you're in the city (moving firewood, getting multiple holes dug, etc.etc.) and now I'm seeing it more and more as the word is assigned to DMV folk. In all honesty I have to say that I've never seen a DMV *or* a DPW person perform a favor for someone in exchange for a 'gift' of something. It may very well happen and my experience may be one that's a little more naive than others but. I don know that almost all volunteers are qppreciative of getting a beer or a drink or any other token gesture when but as a rule I don't think many volunteers are inclined to 'do' something in exchange 'for' something and if they do I'd hope they'd ask themselves why they're volunteering in the first place. Anyway, I guess the point I wanted to make is that the folks at DMV take their job quite seriously and do a hell of a job given the number of vols they have vs, the number of people expecting approvals of their vehicles while at the event. Using the word 'bribe' might suggest to some readers that there are ways of getting around certain issues and approval requirements as they relate to construction, execution and most importantly safety. Believe me, nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm absolutely sure that this is NOT what you mean to suggest or imply in tossing the word around but find myself wondering how many folks might construe the usage differently. I just wanted to toss that out.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:42 pm

...point taken.

I am not suggesting for a second that a bribe can make a DPW or DMV person look the other way and not do their job. But they can entice someone to take an extra second to hear your case (likely just before saying NO anyways). If you are trying to buck the system, or stand out in a crowd of hundreds of wannabees, a bribe of some kind is pretty much a human norm (whatever form it takes). Rarely called a bribe (to avoid insult), but rarely missing in such cases. YMMV.

(ps - I have never bribed a DMV or DPW person)

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:01 pm

but a bribe goes along way at the BRC Post Office dunnit?

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:07 pm

It may be possible to spoof the gate dude with someone elses email, but if you get caught expect the worst.

I think you're missing my point. You don't need to spoof anything. That is the artcar. Bring the actual e-mail and tell them that it was not you personally who sent in the application, but you are working with that person in this project. I know a few people taking art cars that were not registered by them personally.

Next DMV. It's not about fooling anyone, it's about changing your art car into the one in the application.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:28 am

...OK, but remember that the person who provide their pre-registration would have to be awfully trusting (any violations would be tagged to the vehicle application and held against them next year).

What DVDmike describes is infinitely more possible than bringing an unregistered vehicle through the gate and getting it registered. Still could have issues with DMV during the actual permitting process (they have your complete application, including real name, VIN number, etc).

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:16 am

I agree completely that they should exhaust all other channels first. But if they are built on a bus like the Persian palace and want to make their pizza factory into the Persian pizza factory palace, they'll probably be pooped by the time they arrive, but if they are dedicated, there are ways to do it.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:29 pm

The whole bribe thing, to me, is a bit of a running joke. I don't think any of us are suggesting you walk up to a DMV person and slip them a $20 while shaking their hand. I'm thinking of more of an icebreaker - bring them some treat like fresh fruit or ice cream as a way to show that you're recognizing their authority and hoping they will help you.

Trixy · Post by **Trixy** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:56 pm

Yeah, what dork said.

Mr_Understanding · Post by **Mr_Understanding** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:31 pm

I have to say, this is one of the more interesting threads I've ever read on eplaya. It speaks to a great number of issues:

1) Org structure
2) Fee structure
3) Human Nature
4) and just what in the hell are we doing up there anyway?

I'm hearing both sides. I mean, I managed to get my theme camp application in before midnight on the last day and followed all the rules, but sometimes it's more fun to be somewhere where we can break the rules. I know that's why I love the playa. Ordinary societal crap is suspended. I don't believe in anarchy, but I do believe in humanity.

The idea of a "bribe" may be a little ugly and heavy handed, but showing up with a beer and a smile and talking your way past someone who just wants everyone to have a good time and is totally within their rights to give their blessing and a stamp -- well, why the fuck not? If I were behind him in line, he'd have my full support... We should be frightened of bureaucracy.

We should not use anything but one-ply in the porta potties, we should all clean up our own mess, and we should all remember why we create this city. It certainly isn't to mirror the way we do things in other parts of the world...

Or is that just unavoidable? That's certainly the question, isn't it...

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:57 pm

If you indeed manage to get past the Gate with paper work from another vehicle getting past DMV is another matter. The application requires a picture be sent in. Another picture is taken during the inspection process. If the pictures do not match, well, you get my point. This is all assuming that you do not have flame effects. That opens another can of worms.