True.
In most periods, slavery was more the norm than the exception.
There is an event in france, that resulted in a million deaths and a million people enslaved in a short period of time.
But I think history is very important, if only to avoid complacency.
Though we only talked about it a little bit, our conversation mostly being about exotic italian cars, so I have no deep insights from him, Shelby Foote told me I am wrong about the civil war, for what that's worth.
Burn like a real American
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Ugly Dougly
- Posts: 17612
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:31 am
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: เชียงใหม่
In Anglo-Saxon England, debt slavery was very common. Of course, if the Vikings landed and fancied you, you might be sold as a slave somewhere down the river.
Sir Richard Francis Burton wrote of the slaves in Cairo, that they were actually well-provided for and didn't have many responsibilities. When slavery as such was abolished there, he noted that these people entered lives as servants, and a more miserable existence.
Sir Richard Francis Burton wrote of the slaves in Cairo, that they were actually well-provided for and didn't have many responsibilities. When slavery as such was abolished there, he noted that these people entered lives as servants, and a more miserable existence.
Wow-tough crowd, I only mentioned my children's educational choices about history, because that was the subect others were discussing. I didn't say my children didn't choose history, just that they could or not.
I appologize if I have offended anyone, that was not my intention. My children love school, and are way more aware of their political,social, and civil personal power, than I was at their age, and I account that to the opportunity of choice.
The philosophy of the school, means that my kids were able to choose to take a "field trip" to the state capitol and stage a student led protest of the local schoolboard's decision to close their school, instead of sitting at their desks, powerless to choose their own life direction, waiting for someone to tell them what they need to learn.
My man and I also believe that, like everything else, education begins at home. My kids have studied history, including slavery,the Civil War, civil rights,etc... What they haven't studied are the nasty ways that people continue to treat each other and refer to each other today in our supposed informed society. Example, one night we were watching Forrest Gump, and during the part where a student refers to c**ns, my 14 year old had almost the same reaction as Forest,(no, she's not slow) wondering why "that kid would call them racoons" I won't appologize becuase my children are unaware of this type of "history". We don't use that type of language and we don't believe in teaching it to our kids. In any form. We believe that to educate this kind of negativity continues this type of negativity. Of course, they have heard other negative terms, names, etc... for others, as they have gotten older, they just don't understand why there are nasty names just because of superficial differences.
If all of this makes me or my children ignorant, so be it. We will continue to live in our own world where people are people and everybody deserves to be treated with respect. I feel bad that there are others that can't say the same about their or their childrens' education.
I appologize if I have offended anyone, that was not my intention. My children love school, and are way more aware of their political,social, and civil personal power, than I was at their age, and I account that to the opportunity of choice.
The philosophy of the school, means that my kids were able to choose to take a "field trip" to the state capitol and stage a student led protest of the local schoolboard's decision to close their school, instead of sitting at their desks, powerless to choose their own life direction, waiting for someone to tell them what they need to learn.
My man and I also believe that, like everything else, education begins at home. My kids have studied history, including slavery,the Civil War, civil rights,etc... What they haven't studied are the nasty ways that people continue to treat each other and refer to each other today in our supposed informed society. Example, one night we were watching Forrest Gump, and during the part where a student refers to c**ns, my 14 year old had almost the same reaction as Forest,(no, she's not slow) wondering why "that kid would call them racoons" I won't appologize becuase my children are unaware of this type of "history". We don't use that type of language and we don't believe in teaching it to our kids. In any form. We believe that to educate this kind of negativity continues this type of negativity. Of course, they have heard other negative terms, names, etc... for others, as they have gotten older, they just don't understand why there are nasty names just because of superficial differences.
If all of this makes me or my children ignorant, so be it. We will continue to live in our own world where people are people and everybody deserves to be treated with respect. I feel bad that there are others that can't say the same about their or their childrens' education.
I think it was just follow up.
It sounds like you have a good school.
Most charter schools seem to be an endrun around restrictions on teaching nonsense, at least around here.
I wondered why bush was supporting them.
I am sure you realize they will eventually have to learn how some of the world works, if only to avoid annoying people by mistake.
It can be dangerous to accuse anyone black of being good at public speaking.
Knowing this, you can at least make a decision to ignore bizarre reactions.
I suggest you make your children learn public speaking.
I went to a school that did and I thought it was the most useless waste of time for me.
It turned out to be the only useful thing I learned there.
Press conferences hold no terror for me.
Not as much anyway.
A friend has become good enough at his job they are now asking him to do presentations.
It is very hard for him, as he has no experience.
How good he is at it may determine much of his life now.
You never know.
Much easier to do young the first time.
It sounds like you have a good school.
Most charter schools seem to be an endrun around restrictions on teaching nonsense, at least around here.
I wondered why bush was supporting them.
I am sure you realize they will eventually have to learn how some of the world works, if only to avoid annoying people by mistake.
It can be dangerous to accuse anyone black of being good at public speaking.
Knowing this, you can at least make a decision to ignore bizarre reactions.
I suggest you make your children learn public speaking.
I went to a school that did and I thought it was the most useless waste of time for me.
It turned out to be the only useful thing I learned there.
Press conferences hold no terror for me.
Not as much anyway.
A friend has become good enough at his job they are now asking him to do presentations.
It is very hard for him, as he has no experience.
How good he is at it may determine much of his life now.
You never know.
Much easier to do young the first time.
Like the people that make up America...
...this thread seems to show that all sorts of folks go to Burning Man.
I have (and am) enjoying this thread immensely because it's one of the few intelligent conversations in which no one is intentionally jabbing or trying to offend others. Everybody seems to just be stating their opinions as well as educating at the same time. This is the kind of conversation I love to have on the playa with complete strangers (or, New Friends, as I like to call them!)
Not that I don't enjoy the ribbing and snarky-ness from time to time, but this is fun too.
I hope I can find some of you out there, but in the meantime, please carry on...
I have (and am) enjoying this thread immensely because it's one of the few intelligent conversations in which no one is intentionally jabbing or trying to offend others. Everybody seems to just be stating their opinions as well as educating at the same time. This is the kind of conversation I love to have on the playa with complete strangers (or, New Friends, as I like to call them!)
Not that I don't enjoy the ribbing and snarky-ness from time to time, but this is fun too.
I hope I can find some of you out there, but in the meantime, please carry on...
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theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40312
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
You can definately wait until the kids are teens to teach them that stuff. I think it's important that they do know, but I dont' think it's worth burdening them young. Unless, of course, they witness something that has to be explained as part of a debrief.
for what it's worth, I think history as taught in american public schools is a disgrace.
for what it's worth, I think history as taught in american public schools is a disgrace.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
gyre-it sounds like your educational experiences were not good for you, I am sorry.
It takes alot of effort on the part of students, parents, and teachers to keep a school like ours productive and a positive environment, but it is of course worth it.
Believe me my kids don't have trouble speaking in public, they have been at it for years.
Your quote, "It can be dangerous to accuse anyone black of being good at public speaking." huh???? Please tell me that was a "miswrite" or spelling error.
Our kids are aware that people can treat each other cruelly, one of my children is autistic and moderately retarded(society's word, not ours). One of the causes that the other 2 take on are alter-abled rights, because they live in the real world, they have dealt with mean and annoying people. We just don't subscribe to teaching future generations cruelty for the sake of "history". The recording and learning of history has in no way stopped some humans from repeating horrible, inexcuseable, atrocities, it has shown them how to be better at such behavior.
Not everyone is evil not everyone is good, it all comes down to choice. Individual choice, societal choice, global choice. Yeah, yeah, the lady lives in cornball town, but guiding my children to make choices for themselves has taught them that they can create positive change, if they choose to work for it!
It takes alot of effort on the part of students, parents, and teachers to keep a school like ours productive and a positive environment, but it is of course worth it.
Believe me my kids don't have trouble speaking in public, they have been at it for years.
Your quote, "It can be dangerous to accuse anyone black of being good at public speaking." huh???? Please tell me that was a "miswrite" or spelling error.
Our kids are aware that people can treat each other cruelly, one of my children is autistic and moderately retarded(society's word, not ours). One of the causes that the other 2 take on are alter-abled rights, because they live in the real world, they have dealt with mean and annoying people. We just don't subscribe to teaching future generations cruelty for the sake of "history". The recording and learning of history has in no way stopped some humans from repeating horrible, inexcuseable, atrocities, it has shown them how to be better at such behavior.
Not everyone is evil not everyone is good, it all comes down to choice. Individual choice, societal choice, global choice. Yeah, yeah, the lady lives in cornball town, but guiding my children to make choices for themselves has taught them that they can create positive change, if they choose to work for it!
I must have been unclear.
My teachers have been better than average overall.
The school where I was forced to do public speaking is considered one of the best in the country.
I think most of the teachers were refugees from one place or another, no doubt without proper credentials and cheaper than others might have been.
Benevolence or clever self interest on the school's part, I can't say.
But some superb teachers for the most part, and happy to be there.
Native speakers of french, russian (when it was very rare), and many other languages.
I had a math teacher I have never been able to figure the origin of, but his name started with a z.
I now suspect he was a theoretical physicist from somewhere.
I learned to pronounce the names of the french? couple, just because it was such a pleasure to say hello to them.
It was like saying hello to Einstein.
Survivors from WWII.
I've had some crappy teachers too, for sure.
I've never been to a charter school.
I just know of some of them.
You heard me perfectly.
Every time I have praised anyone black for their skill in this area, I have been chided for being patronizing or racist, always by white people.
I always more or less politely tell them to go fuck themselves.
Many kids these days are virtually nonverbal, unable to talk on the phone, much less in public.
A friend's daughter can communicate a lot with "Meh" alone.
Public speaking is something no one ever fully masters.
Every time I have a conversation under stress, from a job interview to promoting a new theme camp to national news cameras, the little training I have had helps.
In that school, everyone had to do speech from memory in front of the entire school.
That experience has allowed me to at least sound rational under stress.
That is a valuable skill for any child to have.
If anyone thinks it's easy, just try it.
My teachers have been better than average overall.
The school where I was forced to do public speaking is considered one of the best in the country.
I think most of the teachers were refugees from one place or another, no doubt without proper credentials and cheaper than others might have been.
Benevolence or clever self interest on the school's part, I can't say.
But some superb teachers for the most part, and happy to be there.
Native speakers of french, russian (when it was very rare), and many other languages.
I had a math teacher I have never been able to figure the origin of, but his name started with a z.
I now suspect he was a theoretical physicist from somewhere.
I learned to pronounce the names of the french? couple, just because it was such a pleasure to say hello to them.
It was like saying hello to Einstein.
Survivors from WWII.
I've had some crappy teachers too, for sure.
I've never been to a charter school.
I just know of some of them.
You heard me perfectly.
Being aware of the difference between a skilled speaker and one who isn't, I can appreciate what was once regarded very highly.Your quote, "It can be dangerous to accuse anyone black of being good at public speaking." huh???? Please tell me that was a "miswrite" or spelling error.
Every time I have praised anyone black for their skill in this area, I have been chided for being patronizing or racist, always by white people.
I always more or less politely tell them to go fuck themselves.
Many kids these days are virtually nonverbal, unable to talk on the phone, much less in public.
A friend's daughter can communicate a lot with "Meh" alone.
Public speaking is something no one ever fully masters.
Every time I have a conversation under stress, from a job interview to promoting a new theme camp to national news cameras, the little training I have had helps.
In that school, everyone had to do speech from memory in front of the entire school.
That experience has allowed me to at least sound rational under stress.
That is a valuable skill for any child to have.
If anyone thinks it's easy, just try it.
History= What happened? How it happened. How it works.
This is true, but you can not act to change anything if you don't know how it works.twinwitin wrote:The recording and learning of history has in no way stopped some humans from repeating horrible, inexcuseable, atrocities, it has shown them how to be better at such behavior.
There are often the way people would prefer things worked and how they actually work.
I was fortunate to spot a political course that was only available to give it accreditation.
It was actually for interns and other future politicians.
Major players came in from all parts and told us how to get elected, how to run an election, how to not get elected, how to read statistics on polls ( taught by the head expert in that).
You would not believe how many people want to argue with the reality of how an election works, often the voting patterns being very counterintuitive.
One of the politicians told us how he ran his first campaign very idealistically.
He put all his views on record.
His opponent reprinted his brochure and handed one out to every single voter in the district.
He lost badly.
Reason being, he put out a view with the opponent being quiet, so each person could only agree or disagreeing, he would lose a vote, with no counter being heard.
Elections are a result of reactions and are affected by the behavior and character of the opponent and the public.
Many people vote against their own interest.
You can run a campaign the way you want to.
But if you don't deal with reality, you won't win.
And you won't change anything.
This is true of many things.
I met a man who told me in glowing terms what it was like to see Hitler in person.
I listened with interest, never letting him know what I thought of this, because I wanted to learn about him.
Other damn fools made a fuss and he shut up.
I prefer to know how things really work.
I always take the journalistic approach and let people talk, unless I think it will make a difference what I say.
If I don't understand how oppression or anything else works, how can I even make a pretense of changing anything?
It is important to know that Hitler took his cues from Armenia, and the legal practice of eugenics and fascism in America.
It is important to know the subtle insinuations of dictatorship as our rights are being stripped away in this country.
It is important to know how companies behave, if you wish to affect the behavior of one.
It is important to know how things work.
Understanding what is real in history is just figuring out how things work.
Often logic tells you many things no one will say on camera.
Ask any journalist.
I can't imagine not wanting to know what the world is really like.
gyre-you are obviously a well educated, articulate individual, and I hope to be able to put a face with the name in 30 some days whoo-hoo! I wanted also to ask if you wouldn't mind my kids reading our posts, I would really like to know their thoughts. I'm not trying to be "ugly" your words are very powerful, and give a new view, I just wish you could be at the dinner table with us to talk in person, we love food and talk around here ha ha!
thank you
thank you
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Simon of the Playa
- Posts: 22828
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
- Burning Since: 1996
- Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
- Location: BRC, Nevada.
yes, i agree, gyre is a well articulated e-playan, and i too look forward to sharing a drink or two in person. If you're not at the Barbie Death Camp meet and greet on thursday, make sure you swing by Root Society and check out my little display of other peoples memories...
you cant miss us, big fucking domes, tipi's, 10th and Esplanade, and after weds, a constant sonic boom of oontz oontz oontz. (come by tuesday)
ask for simon. I'm one of those idiots who doesnt have a playa name.
(ok, i do, but i dont want to mention it here)
you cant miss us, big fucking domes, tipi's, 10th and Esplanade, and after weds, a constant sonic boom of oontz oontz oontz. (come by tuesday)
ask for simon. I'm one of those idiots who doesnt have a playa name.
(ok, i do, but i dont want to mention it here)
Frida Be You & Me
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ygmir
- Posts: 30403
- Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
- Burning Since: 2007
- Camp Name: qqqq
- Location: nevada county
"I met a man who told me in glowing terms what it was like to see Hitler in person.
I listened with interest, never letting him know what I thought of this, because I wanted to learn about him.
Other damn fools made a fuss and he shut up."
That so hits home.
People can't learn for learning's sake so often.......hit a 'hot button' and, the rest of the conversation is lost....
I've also noticed a person can't say anything positive about certain people, entities, or events, even if they're true, because, in the politically correct world, "they" are pure evil and nothing that happened or was done can be admirable.......
so much can be learned if emotion can be put on hold, even for a short period.......
Just my random thoughts,
Ygmir
I listened with interest, never letting him know what I thought of this, because I wanted to learn about him.
Other damn fools made a fuss and he shut up."
That so hits home.
People can't learn for learning's sake so often.......hit a 'hot button' and, the rest of the conversation is lost....
I've also noticed a person can't say anything positive about certain people, entities, or events, even if they're true, because, in the politically correct world, "they" are pure evil and nothing that happened or was done can be admirable.......
so much can be learned if emotion can be put on hold, even for a short period.......
Just my random thoughts,
Ygmir
YGMIR
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
I appreciate everything you guys say.
I should warn you I am not as articulate in person, being unable to edit.
I am also much less courteous off the interweb.
Always happy to meet people though.
And you are welcome to let me corrupt your children if you wish.
Eplaya is actually my rehab.
I am a brain injury survivor with permanent damage from a subdural hematoma in a crash.
Because I was considered a hopeless case, I fell through the cracks as far as rehab goes.
My surgeon is strictly mortality focused, as in "Are you dying/ not dying?"
He has had few patients that could use rehab.
When I first got on eplaya, I could not form a paragraph at one time, often not a simple sentence.
Previously I could compose a long page in my head and sit down and type it out.
I still edit a lot and miss weird mistakes anyway.
And I still have aphasia a lot of the time.
So I really appreciate the praise.
Thanks.
I should warn you I am not as articulate in person, being unable to edit.
I am also much less courteous off the interweb.
Always happy to meet people though.
And you are welcome to let me corrupt your children if you wish.
Eplaya is actually my rehab.
I am a brain injury survivor with permanent damage from a subdural hematoma in a crash.
Because I was considered a hopeless case, I fell through the cracks as far as rehab goes.
My surgeon is strictly mortality focused, as in "Are you dying/ not dying?"
He has had few patients that could use rehab.
When I first got on eplaya, I could not form a paragraph at one time, often not a simple sentence.
Previously I could compose a long page in my head and sit down and type it out.
I still edit a lot and miss weird mistakes anyway.
And I still have aphasia a lot of the time.
So I really appreciate the praise.
Thanks.
René Belbenoit
He went from prison in the "Devil's Island" colony to U.S. citizen.
Actually the isolated Salvation Islands off South America.
Devil's Island was the island that Dreyfus was held on, part of the group.
Published the books Dry Guillotine and Hell on Trial .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Belbenoit
Some interesting possibilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Belbenoit
He went from prison in the "Devil's Island" colony to U.S. citizen.
Actually the isolated Salvation Islands off South America.
Devil's Island was the island that Dreyfus was held on, part of the group.
Published the books Dry Guillotine and Hell on Trial .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Belbenoit
Some interesting possibilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ren%C3%A9_Belbenoit
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Kenny Z
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:07 pm
- Burning Since: 2002
- Camp Name: United Nations
- Location: Reno
- Contact:
Question: How many people can the United States hold?
While it seems so beautiful to run a country with heart and emotion, there comes a time where logic should come into play. Logic isn't always kind or fair but it is necessary for survival.
Another point is that without some kind of immigration restrictions, the United States ceases to be a melting pot and becomes a stew. Believe it or not, there are many illegal immigrants here that want a better life but have no desire to be an American.
While it seems so beautiful to run a country with heart and emotion, there comes a time where logic should come into play. Logic isn't always kind or fair but it is necessary for survival.
Another point is that without some kind of immigration restrictions, the United States ceases to be a melting pot and becomes a stew. Believe it or not, there are many illegal immigrants here that want a better life but have no desire to be an American.