2008 "American Dream" theme

How much do you like the 2008 "American Dream" theme?

Lame. Lame. Lame.
215
30%
Lame. Lame. Lame.
215
30%
Sort of lame.
60
8%
Sort of lame.
60
8%
Good enough.
32
5%
Good enough.
32
5%
Brilliant. Inspiring.
47
7%
Brilliant. Inspiring.
47
7%
 
Total votes: 708

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:47 pm

Teo del Fuego wrote:Actually, Bob, you, with the vast majority of your posts, were responding to your own damaged ego. Take a few hours and read objectively your posts from the past few days and I think you will find your tone to be way over the top in terms of condescension and arrogance. Maybe that's just your schtick, or maybe you're just a schmuck. But please, go on, if it makes you feel better about yourself. You are not one ounce better or superior to anyone else who posts here and if you've convinced yourself otherwise, then well, you are a sad case indeed.
Wow. That's quite a revelation.

Anybody else been taking the measure of the vastness of my postage? WTF?
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K-mom
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Post by K-mom » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:47 pm

diane o'thirst wrote:I'll bet we get a two-camp feud, United States of Canada Camp vs. Redneckistan Camp.
Aaaahhh, the Civil Burn !
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DURING AN ELECTION YEAR??

Post by JediDale » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:13 am

Very possibly the MOST Horrible Theme Yet!!!

Q. Is this referring to what we NOW consider "The American Dream",
or the ideas of yesteryears? If so, when exactly? 1800's American Dream? 1940's American Dream?
Radical EXCLUSION of the rest of THE WORLD? This theme invokes the worlds biggest vacuum cleaner as it TOTALLY SUX!! Did anyone think of the fact that it will be a MAJOR AMERICAN POLITICAL YEAR?? For days on end we will see, hear and feel the political monster of the United States!!
Then go to BM '08 and more of the same? The American Dream: Totalitarian Imperialism! I suggest The EuroBurn or a regional Burn!


Genuinely,

JediDale Of Reno
You don't have to..Believe Everything I Say...because your unconscious will hear this.
Your unconscious can Do anything It wishes..
But your conscious mind isn't going to do
anything of Importance for Now. And...My Voice Will Go With You...

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Post by shikantaza » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:34 am

[quote]I'm betting money that someone is already thinking of going for the world record flag burn.[/quote]


And you would have already won that bet. ;)

Can you just see the BLM chasing that one down?

M-Files
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2008 Theme: You've Got To Be Kidding

Post by M-Files » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:55 am

This theme is a joke, right?

Surely the BMOrg will soon admit HAHAHA, it's all a big joke and this nonsense will somehow segway into the announcement of the REAL 2008 theme of - I dunno - The Planetary Dream or something, right?

So what inspired this sudden jingoistic ejaculation? Is Homeland Security investigating BMOrg on suspicion of inciting some sort of pagan jihad? Is the IRS riding up Larry Harvey's ass?

Because if this isn't some sort of joke, then BM's Bored of Directors is truly devoid of imagination and is long overdue for retirement to some Sunset Convalescent Care Home in Florida. Perhaps it's time to hand the torch over to a new generation of Burners who can reinvigorate Burning Man with new blood and much-needed fresh inspiration.

Cheers,
m-files
..............

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Post by ZaphodBurner » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:59 am

Xhile wrote: Personally, I think the idea of a high rise building with flags is rather crass and ugly. But that's an aesthetic opinion, so I can let that slide.
Yeah, I agree.
Xhile wrote: Well, if they're going to use a "high rise tower" perhaps it should be set alight by crashing a small plane into it?
I think most Americans look at skyscrapers differently than they used to. I think virtually everybody who looks at it will imagine an airplane flying into it. Hmm. Implied art.
Xhile wrote: Maybe I'll go hide in a sex camp and simply try to "share the love" and ignore the theme. ;-)
The freedom to do so and succeed in spite of established doctrine is elemental to the American Dream.

My wife and I talked about the theme last night and I decided I like it. The American dream is pure and decent: It's the freedom to succeed and pursue one's own ideas of happiness based on the fruits of one's own hard work.

That sounds quote a bit like Burning Man. The problem isn't the ideal, it's the corruption of the ideal. That sounds like everything everybody complains about when they complain about Burning Man.

Basically, there's a lot of fodder for thought and discussion in the theme.

-zb
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

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skygod
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Post by skygod » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:21 am

ZaphodBurner wrote:

Basically, there's a lot of fodder for thought and discussion in the theme.

-zb
Best Theme Ever!
I just hope we can avoid violence. Some people will hate me if I don't agree with them.
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echohaus
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Post by echohaus » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:26 am

Reading the theme left a dull thud, at best, inside me. Not inspiring in the least.
When I go to Burn, I want to get away from anything even remotely like this. This feels like an invasion, of sorts.

Sorry...theme's a dud.

I can't help but wonder if it's not time to resurrect some past themes; since there's new blood around, perhaps a re-interpretation wouldn't be a bad thing.

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:39 am

I can't help but wonder if it's not time to resurrect some past themes
Resurrect? Resurrect all of what...11-12 themes over as many years.

Oh no you don't. Don't even fucking go there.

Not so long as Hillbilly Vision Quest still remains a possibility.

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echohaus
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Post by echohaus » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:56 am

Oh, there's a theme we don't need. As if we don't have to deal with hillbillies enough as it is?

I can see it now...the entire city covered with 7-11 camps giving out free beer, and every art car has NASCAR all over it.

No, thanks.

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Post by AntiM » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:09 am

Ah, but the moonshine! That would be worth it. And hey, fuck NASCAR, my personal hillbilly HATES 'em.

Cue the banjoes ...

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ravenluv
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Viva La Revolution!

Post by ravenluv » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:22 am

[quote="godzero
If I do go next year, it will be with a strong "Global Dream" theme - or something akin to that - as a counter to the narrowness of the official one.

metta[/quote]

YES! this is the way to do it!

i'm on a quest to validate next year's theme by getting as many participants as possible to ignore it's narrow boundaries. many of us are on the same wavelength - we like the general idea, but see it as too narrow.

my alter-theme idea: "Dreaming of a Better World"

but the actual title doesn't matter. the point is: do your best to pay no attention whatsoever to the american element of the theme. sure, there are some who think this is a nifty theme. fine - they can go with it. but for rest of us, who appear to be in the majority, there is nothing that says we HAVE to heed the constraints of the official theme.

maybe this is what larry wanted. in the wired interview, paul addis speaks of america's future and drops the phrase 'the american dream' in his justification for what he did. he claims he was trying to spark people to consider doing things for themselves, taking some initiative and being daring. and now larry has given us the chance. we don't have to obey this theme!

he also said people don't write enough anymore. obviously, he hasn't met me. this is how i'm partcipating. expect to see me here writing ad nauseum in an effort to subvert the theme while paying homage to its origins - similar to what the ideological leaders of american revolution did.

dreaming of a better world.......what is your utopian vision? or that of your culture? dreaming of a better world is not an american invention, it's a human invention. let's see what those dreams are!

sweet dreams are made of these
who am i to disagree?

an individual with an opinion and the desire to make my world (and brc) a better place, that's who!

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mojo
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Post by mojo » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:34 am

Wow - since when did we become so very snobbish and elitist that we consider hillbillies and NASCAR to be beneath us?

I think that one of the harsh realities of our Community (drink), is that our demographic is largely caucasian. That old American Dream is still very much alive and well among the millions of new immigrants to this country.

Ravenluv - Bravo, well said.

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domitron
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Post by domitron » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:54 am

Maybe this theme was chosen to reduce the attendance next year. I mean I think they got up to 47K this year, and if next year increased by the same percentage as this over last year's event, we'd be breaking 50K. Maybe Burning Man needs some disgusting themes to reduce the attendance. In the end, this theme is dead on announcement. There will be so few themed art projects, I predict, that the theme will be all but ignored entirely. I suppose there might be some critical art of the American dream, but I cannot imagine the theme inspiring the kind of art we are all used to at Burning Man.

I was of the opinion that the green man might well have been the peak of Burning Man. Of course people have been predicting such a peak for years, but I am convinced it is close if not here. With this theme, maybe the event is finally selling out. I hate to think it, but at some point you have to wake up and smell the coffee I guess. Until I wake up, though, I'm willing to dream of a wonderful burning man but just not the American dream.

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Teo del Fuego
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Post by Teo del Fuego » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:47 pm

[quote="CaptainObvious]Burning the flags of all nations... hmm.. could one see that as symbolic of the disolution of borders and yelling out loud - "Welcome to the HUMAN race!!" Flags are what ARMIES rally behind...[/quote]

hmmm, refreshing take on the Theme. How about a theme: "Welcome to the Human Race?"

My problem with the Theme and this year's Pavillion was that artists were excluded. the Pavillion was not a place I wanted to visit, and in fact did not visit. The Theme should be "The Dream." Art for art's sake.

I think Larry is struggling to make Burning Man directly relevant to the outside world and I think that's a mistake. It already is directly relevant to everyone who lives off the Playa (and that includes us all.) We take the inspiration afforded us by artists out into our real world life.

What could be moire diametrically opposite than Psyche's Fun House and Green Man's Pavillion? Which was better? For me there is no doubt.

Godzero: sorry for coming down a little too hard. Who knows where apple pie originated? Perhaps after a wikipedia search one of our Longtime Burners TM can gift us with his knowledge. (I suspect it originated spontaneously wherever people had access to apples.) The point is, however, that national anthems, pleadges of allegiance and our saying Apple pie is decidely American is part of our culture. Its no more whack than the shit that goes on in other countries.

I seriously hope that the unwashed masses who make Burning Man exist will protest the fuck out of the theme and get it changed to something more suitable. But, Im tired of bitching. I wish Larry Harvey was someone who "got" us Burners. I wish John Law would come back.

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Post by blyslv » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:04 pm

olivia wrote:Wow, fuck this. I missed this year and was so psyched to go next year. I am not going with a theme like that. God this makes me so angry.

Why woulod you give the Org so much power over your decisions? What happened to radical self reliance?
Fight for the fifth freedom!

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Post by blyslv » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:06 pm

The Bass wrote: asking burners to grapple explicitly with the dysfunction of American ideology and try to redeem it just seems cruel -- that is, after all, what we are doing at every Burning Man, by pursuing _other_ axes of meaning.

...

Let's NOT let this theme take over next year.

IGNORE IT!!!!
could you point me to where this was asked?

Please do!
Fight for the fifth freedom!

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Re: Us "hippie pagan whining baby birds".

Post by blyslv » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:10 pm

KatyStardust wrote: Now please excuse me while I go enjoy my supposed tofu granola with the rest of the 73%.

Cheers!

---------------------------------

<SNIP>


I will however judge this idea based on the fact that the majority of jackasses - that DON'T get the concepts behind the concept - will be swathing themselves in red, white and blue. Not that I hate these colors - but I can see people getting pretty shallow with the whole thing. That's what disgusts me!
Isn't it kind of shallow to equate popularity with beuing correct?
Fight for the fifth freedom!

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Isotopia
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Post by Isotopia » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:11 pm

I wouldn't mind seeing an answer to that question myself.

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Post by blyslv » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:28 pm

olivia wrote:[I know, in addition to making this year's theme totally America-centric, let's crush a skyscraper of international flags with the American Dream Man, and then let's burn it to the ground! Can you get more symbolic than that? Who wants to celebrate that?

If you build it I will view it, but for some reason I kind of doubt you will. At least you won't have to worry about being arrested (for the most part).
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Post by blyslv » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:34 pm

godzero wrote: After 17 years here, I have developed a pretty good understanding of this country's culture; what is notably missing from it is an understanding that there are OTHER cultures! I have learned to enjoy and respect what this country has to offer but I don't have to agree with everything anymore than I have done/do elsewhere. Freedom of expression is not exclusively American as many would have you believe.

metta
I've lived in several cultures at various times and visited quite a few others for shorter amounts of time. I've found that everybody loves their culture/country (especially when discussing it with a forienger) and most people are ignorant of the world outside their five senses.

But be careful about your "pretty good understanding" it can lead to assumptions and expectations that may bite you on the butt.
Fight for the fifth freedom!

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Lack of Imagination

Post by COPPERFISH » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:58 pm

It's just lame. I mean c'mon. Is that all they have to give us in terms of their ability to challenge and provoke. Even our arguments over this one are going to be weak and boring. I'm already bored. I was pissed for a second. But now... eh... whatever...

So I propose we all submit entires for the Alternative theme to Burning Man 2008. Are we sheepish followers or are we radical participants?!! Let us not waste our breath on lamenting the lameness of the gatekeepers. We all know they suck balls on this one. So lets get over it and on with it. I'm not letting a stupid slogan keep me from having a good time. Let's just pick a new one and start planning around something that is a little more democratically engineered.

So whoever knows how to make those voting interfaces hit me up cause I don't know how. We can pick a date about a month off (maybe around Decompression time) and have submissions and then vote.

Who's down?

-Copperfish

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Post by Xhile » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:44 pm

domitron wrote:Maybe this theme was chosen to reduce the attendance next year.
Or, it could have been chosen to INCREASE attendance. Perhaps Larry wants to increase the numbers of conservative people (for want of a better term) that attend, so that BM is more inclusive.

If numbers did drop by "lefty 'merica haters" not attending, or increased by more "righty 'merica lovers" attending, either way the festival would be less attractive to me.

But then, do i really believe in radical inclusion? Yes, I think I do. I am just afraid the "right-wingers" (poor term, I know) won't believe in radical inclusion and would try to exclude my point of view. That seems to not be a right-wing thing to do.

Having mulled,

I think I will not let a crap theme stop me attending, I would just make sure to make it my own in line with the "Global Dream" "Dream of a Better World" themes suggested above.

But it is a very crap theme.

;-)
meh.

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Post by Xhile » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:46 pm

And let me add, that while people have been saying for 10 years "it's not like it used to be"

the real freshness and new life is appearing in the regional events now, not BM itself.
meh.

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Re: Lack of Imagination

Post by Xhile » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:51 pm

COPPERFISH wrote:So I propose we all submit entires for the Alternative theme to Burning Man 2008. Are we sheepish followers or are we radical participants
Very interesting idea, and one that I think is much more BM. We've had a theme given to us from 'on high' for many years. Maybe time to open that up.

In the case of my own regional burn ( www.kiwiburn.com ) the organising committee collectively decided the theme ( CombustInUnity ), which is a little better than 1 person choosing it.

And i think we'd be quite happy to take suggestions for themes from anyone for future years.

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Post by skygod » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:15 pm

nm
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Moonpie
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What a shit theme

Post by Moonpie » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:05 pm

Sounds like a cross between a 4th of July parade and Disney's small world. Sure do love the political themes!

Maybe this one's a joke like the Sports theme during last April Fools?

(nah....)

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:12 pm

You have a committee decide your theme?

How very Red Chinese.
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Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Sep 06, 2007 11:10 pm

Bob wrote:You have a committee decide your theme?

How very Red Chinese.
Com'on Bob, we're late for "Criticism, Self=Criticism."
The Lady with a Lamprey

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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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ravenluv
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Post by ravenluv » Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:00 am

COPPERFISH wrote:It's just lame. I mean c'mon. Is that all they have to give us in terms of their ability to challenge and provoke. Even our arguments over this one are going to be weak and boring. I'm already bored. I was pissed for a second. But now... eh... whatever...

So I propose we all submit entires for the Alternative theme to Burning Man 2008. Are we sheepish followers or are we radical participants?!! Let us not waste our breath on lamenting the lameness of the gatekeepers. We all know they suck balls on this one. So lets get over it and on with it. I'm not letting a stupid slogan keep me from having a good time. Let's just pick a new one and start planning around something that is a little more democratically engineered.

So whoever knows how to make those voting interfaces hit me up cause I don't know how. We can pick a date about a month off (maybe around Decompression time) and have submissions and then vote.

Who's down?

-Copperfish

excellent! now i'm feeling more emboldened in my quest to see the
official theme subverted. obviously, i'll be submitting 'dreaming of a better world' because that's all i could think of. and i hope it wins because i really would like to see the art that was inspired by it.

i love the idea of letting a vote take place! very quaker-like. highly important when forming the theme of a revolution.

one practical issue: if there were lots of theme ideas submitted, there is a good chance that the top pick would still only have garnered 25 percent of the vote. seems that there would need to be two votes if more than two ideas were submitted.

but then....could it not be argued that the majority ruled theme was just as imposed and invalid as the administratively assigned theme? sure it could!

but if we can subvert the official theme in a profound way, then it will be a triumph for the freedom of imagination. even if the winner wasn't universally accepted, such a vote would at least give us some vague idea of what to expect at the event. the main goal here is to inspire massive ignorance of the official theme while providing inspiration for those artists who like to come up with ideas to fit the theme.

that being said: please vote for my idea!

dreaming of a better world - show us YOUR utopian vision



When Themes Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Have Themes

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