Burning Man 2008: Revolution

Saki
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Burning Man 2008: Revolution

Post by Saki » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:22 am

Bring democracy to Black Rock City.

Over throw the Brutal Dictator Larry Harvey and his evil regime the BMLLC (BMORG).

Free the people of BRC to choose their own theme.

Stop dangerous Beta Beta Kappa insurgents from attacking our nation.

Restore the right of women to walk naked without being photographed.

End the exploitation of our culture through Flickr and YouTube.

Our vital ice sources must be secured at a reasonable cost.

Toolmaker
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Re: Burning Man 2008: Revolution

Post by Toolmaker » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:35 am

Saki wrote:
Stop dangerous Beta Beta Kappa insurgents from attacking our nation.

Restore the right of women to walk naked without being photographed.

End the exploitation of our culture through Flickr and YouTube.

I'll agree to those 3.
The last 2 are easy solutions. Ban Cameras. PERIOD. No exceptions AT ALL. The first one might be seriously affected with a ban on cameras.

As far as democracy.. not really my bag. I'm more of a constitutional republic kinda guy. As far as the ORG and Larry.. well its his show. If I really have issue I can always NOT buy the ticket and STAY AWAY from the ride.

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:53 am

democracy? on the PLAYA? are you fucking nuts?

it takes 3 hours to decide what to WEAR on most days.....

i'll take the well lubricated fascism that the hat has so lovingly nurtured thru the years...

god forbid some fucking hippy doing yoga at the cafe make MY choices for me...

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Post by lurker » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:05 am

Free the people of BRC to choose their own theme.
They ARE free to choose their own theme. That's the theme--The American Dream.

The American Dream is what YOU want, without the constraints of class, genetics, or sanity.

So if your American Dream is to bring democracy to the playa, set up a voting booth, get yourself som candidates and let 'er rip.

If you wanna overthrow The Hat, get yourself some Spartans or something and go for it(personally, I'd like to see a whole war-in-heaven thing, demons versus angels)

And I like pictures afterwards. Memory is great, but you can't make a poster out of it and shellac it to your ceiling.

Well, you can, but you won't have enough brain left to enjoy it afterwards....
"Life is like a box of razor blades. Sharp, shiny, and good for removing unwanted body hair"

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Rocket75377
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Post by Rocket75377 » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:46 am

At the very least, I'll help overthrow Larry.
I am the people your parents warned you about.

"How would Horatio Alger have handled this?"

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:05 am

dear Rocket, larry has spies EVERYWHERE......and your comment has been duly noted.

we will find you, and we will MAKE YOU WEAR THE RIBBON....

and you will LIKE IT!!!



best bumper thingy seen lately...."i support magnetic ribbons"

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Rocket75377
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Post by Rocket75377 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:53 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:dear Rocket, larry has spies EVERYWHERE......and your comment has been duly noted.

we will find you, and we will MAKE YOU WEAR THE RIBBON....

and you will LIKE IT!!!
I'll be waiting at 10:30 & S.


...or am I right BEHIND YOU!?
I am the people your parents warned you about.

"How would Horatio Alger have handled this?"

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:54 am

woa, dude, dont e-sneak up on me like that, i might have a drink in my hand.


wait a second.....there is no 10:30.......


are you pulling my third leg?

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BitterDan
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Post by BitterDan » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:40 pm

End the exploitation of our culture through Flickr and YouTube.
Photographers are artists too. And how are they "exploiting our culture" again? It's not like Flickr corporate photographers are coming just to somehow exploit our culture. If that were the case then I could see your point but being an amateur photographer myself I don't see how posting my pics on Flickr is exploiting the community...
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LeChatNoir
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Post by LeChatNoir » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:24 pm

Photographers are artists too. And how are they "exploiting our culture" again? It's not like Flickr corporate photographers are coming just to somehow exploit our culture. If that were the case then I could see your point but being an amateur photographer myself I don't see how posting my pics on Flickr is exploiting the community...

Despite what some may think, I am a very private person. I don't really like to be photographed, especially when I am on the playa (with the exception of some photos taken with friends in shared moments). Its often very personal for me out there and I feel that someone walking along beside me, running a video camera, or taking pictures, then disappearing... wel... it feels like it just violates my space. Too often people seem to only be objectifying a moment, rather than being in it.

BitterDan, I'm not saying you have done anything like this, but rather trying to give an idea of why someone might not like cameras being around. Anytime somebody I don't know has a camera, I have to wonder about the intentions behind their actions.



In all the years of coming to the playa, I have been asked twice if I minded being photographed.

One of those times was by a fellow who wanted to take a picture of me picking up moop at the portapotties. I thought about it, and agreed. He took the picture, turned around and left. Interesting lop-sided interaction. In retrospect, I wish I’d given permission on the condition that he moop with me for a bit first.

The second was by a woman who asked to take my photograph while I was walking to the Temple. She and I talked for a bit afterwards and she emailed me a copy of the pic later on. I really appreciated that. A not-so-lop-sided interaction.

Anytime a camera is around out there, I am at the least self-conscious and very often no longer feel like I can be myself… like I have to think about how every move might be examined at some future point. Too many people judge things too far out of context in the default world.

I respect the right of someone to express themselves through photography, and in fact many people's photos from various Burns give me genuine joy when I look at them… they take me back to a moment that I was very happy in. And perhaps even the guy who was running along, whose face never came out from behind his camera, gets similar joy out of a video of The Contraption putting along.

I’m very aware of this paradox.

But, of the things that could make me quit wanting to participate in Burning Man, cameras rank pretty high up there (Or at least what I perceive to be an increasing number of cameras being used disrespectfully).
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spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:33 pm

absolutely agree with everything the dark cat said, personally applies from my very private nature down to the loss of freedom.

if you really want a different perspective on its challenge then raise the 'camera's at critical tits' debate with the burning woman tribe. http://burningwoman.tribe.net/ but fair warning, i doubt they will like what you have to say and some probably wont be nice about it.

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BitterDan
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Post by BitterDan » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:09 pm

I don't know why they wouldn't like what I had to say, it's not like I was picking a fight. Or is that we've reached a point in human existence where intellectual debate is forgone for prejudice?

I was simply asking the question and pointing out that photography is just as much art as that mutant vehicle is.

People express themselves in different ways; photographers do so by capturing what they see as interesting and/or beautiful. Think of it as a way of seeing through someone else's eyes if only for one instant of time.
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spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:04 pm

i understand where you are comming from, and over the years my perception has developed seeing things from both sides. but its a still a touchy issue, you will find its been debated into the ground where many have become entrenched and well versed on both sides of the issue with many being 'bitter.'

if you bring it up there, really, caution.

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Post by Toolmaker » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:28 am

I'm not even going to get into what may be done when someone takes my picture or films me without my permission. Lets just say it will be a lesson learned for them. We had some camera crew driving around in their RV all week long filming people. I think the best times at BM are to be had before the gates open to the public. I'm thinkin I should probably try to goto a regional instead. BM was alot quiter than I expected and alot of people were shitbirds. Nobody in the village I was in or even my neighborhood. Lord knows where they came from but come Wednesday they were everywhere. This Juplaya thing sounds like alot of fun. I can't find the place for details or tickets though. :(
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BitterDan
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Post by BitterDan » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:17 am

I can understand the not wanting your picture taken. Shit, I don't want my picture taken either (one of the reasons I am behind the camera and not in front of it). Personally, I do not take pictures of people (except in large group shots) without their permission and I NEVER post a shot of someone without clothes (with expressed, written consent). I mostly shoot the art, the mountains, the sunrise/sunset, etc.

I don't think a camera ban is the answer here, I do think that cameras should have to be registered though (not just video cams). That would at least cut down on 'some' of the tourists snapping shots to show everyone how weird burners are. If you want to shoot pics, go stand in the media line and register your shit.

And as far as people using BM pics for commercial gain goes. As far as I am aware you cannot legally sell a picture of someone without a model release so an individual could sue the photographer in the case where that person sold their likeness. Additionally, I am fairly certain that BMORG does not allow the use of photos taken at BM for commercial purposes so, theoretically, BMORG could sue the photographer as well.
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Ugly Dougly
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Post by Ugly Dougly » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:02 am

Give chaos a chance.

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LeChatNoir
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Post by LeChatNoir » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:18 am

BitterDan wrote: I don't think a camera ban is the answer here...
I don't think its a realistic idea. And its less about the camera, and more about the approach of the person behind the lens. I, for one, certainly appreciate the respect you show people by doing what you do when photographing. I wish everyone was so conscientious.

Perhaps one answer is dealing with the matter on a smaller scale. As in a camp making themselves a "Camera Free Zone". But I confess that I worry about the long term cost to the community, since such a counter measure could (and undoubtedly has already) lead to tighter subgroups that might be closed off entirely to the general citizenry of BRC. And at the same time, its something I've thought about myself.

BitterDan wrote: ...Additionally, I am fairly certain that BMORG does not allow the use of photos taken at BM for commercial purposes...
Yeah... I think they take that pretty seriously.
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LeChatNoir
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Post by LeChatNoir » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:21 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Give chaos a chance.
Yeah... strangely enough, that's something I agree with. I just have to always keep figuring out how to deal with that chaos when it effects me in a way that I wish not to be (i.e. removing myself from that situation, etc).
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LeChatNoir
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Post by LeChatNoir » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:29 am

Thinking about a “Camera Free Zoneâ€
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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:50 am

myself, i have always wanted a no drum circle circle.

maybe a christo like display around the no photo zone....anti-christo, actually.

no cameras or recording devices etc etc allowed.


what goes on in the no-photo zone STAYS in the no photo zone....oh wait, some other carnival town already has that one trademarked......

i think it could be done...i'll put my fingers where my mouth is...or something like that....

if someone else out there wants to organize and handle logistics, i will volunteer my sewing time (i'm a seamster, it's like a tailor, but we swear alot and are loosely affiliated with the afl-cio) to stitch this baby up....

then somewhere out there, we'll set it up, and there it is...and then we burn it...

i think the deadline for grants is feb 15th, so you better start typing...

i cant read or write, a monkey does this for me.

thank god.

but i will assist the anti-christo in his cloaking of a portion of the playa for the oh so reasonable price of some shits, and possibly giggles...

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:57 am

on a side note, this strangely does fit into the theme...

this will be the privacy area, somewhat akin to a free speech zone...


hmmmm.

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thirt33n
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Post by thirt33n » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:55 pm

I like the camera free zone idea.....

thing is with flicker and youtube;
some people empty their camera and upload all of their pics stooopid, private, artistic or what have you more as proof that they went and "partied down" as opposed to those who carefully pic out and or edit little examples or "tastey morsels", if you will, to give an artistic glimpse into the magic.

It's the difference between Larry Flynt and Hugh Heffner. I love'em both but I'd rather have my Daughter show up in Playboy.


There was a day when a vast majority of BRC citizens understood this theory. It wasn't too long ago. Probably around the population 25,000 mark...what's that 2000? Long gone.

i'm going to build an Igloo.
goodbye
blow.

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Countess
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Democracy

Post by Countess » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:08 pm

Does "democracy" mean one person one vote -- each person voting according to their own interests?
or can "democracy" means consensus -- people engaging in a process of deliberation on a specific issue... and then some individuals may come out against their own interests?
Countess
...counting burners with the Black Rock Census and documenting burner culture for the history books

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mdmf007
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Post by mdmf007 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:50 pm

I think a camera free zone is cool - but real hard to enforce without some major volunteering.

I was thinking about a simple symbol that means "No pictures Please" a red sash? Black bandanna? bring out the hanky codes, but make it obvious on a participant.

thoughts?

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oneeyeddick
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Post by oneeyeddick » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:17 pm

I don't think there are any colors/types/styles of hankys
that don't already mean something else.
Cheese head hats is definately the answer.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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bigbluedoggy
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Post by bigbluedoggy » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:57 pm

I enjoy photography as a hobby and have a bunch of gear I have collected over the years. However, for whatever reason, I did not feel compelled to shoot many pictures at BRC this last year. I shot a lot of construction pics before hitting the playa, and I did go around and document our camp installation sometime around Wednesday. Maybe it was the fact that I was seeing so many cameras this year that made me hesitant to join the throng of random photo takers. I think it is also that I sometimes feel very outclassed in the quality of work after I come back and see some of the incredible photos taken at BM. I really enjoy looking over Flickr and the other sites to see some of the amazing photos taken, and it is always fun if I run across a picture of someone I know. Not to say that all of the pics on Flickr are stupendous.
In 2006 I took my little point and shoot camera around and took some photos of various art installations and things, trying to be conscientious about shooting individuals without their permission. I was shooting a wide shot up towards our camp from the Esplanade and got yelled at by someone in a nearby theme camp "No Photos!" There was no point in trying to explain it was a wide shot as they clearly would have had an issue in any event. I think I will keep my little camera in its pouch this year too, probably because of that sort of reaction, and just go back to defaultia and enjoy everyone else's photos once again.
A plan is what you vary from.

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Simon of the Playa
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:59 pm

well i'm serious about the offer to sew, and or possibly provide material for an anti-christo privacy zone...i have enough remnants to do sew...(oh god, i'm KILLING myself, "sew". "so"....ehhhforget it).

i just need someone to do the other end as i am coming from cold rusty hell, i mean upstate new york, and would need the structure frame and grant bullshit taken care of, i will simply ship and then show up to drape...

i will prolly be on another project as well, but i can make time as i never sleep...

no really...i never sleep.


so.......anyway, the problems of cameras, well.....

abusers, offenders will be banished and verbally abused, in French...


i think thats enough, et vous?

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bigbluedoggy
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Post by bigbluedoggy » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:52 pm

oooh Zsu Zsu abuse!!! How wonderful!!!
A plan is what you vary from.

Destiny Lounge has been proven to cause cuteness in small kittens.

Destiny Lounge 3D - located in the 3:00 Plaza at G for 2019! Look for our art installation too: The Temple uv Enlightenment!

Saki
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Camera Repair Camp

Post by Saki » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:43 pm

mdmf007 wrote:I think a camera free zone is cool - but real hard to enforce without some major volunteering.

I was thinking about a simple symbol that means "No pictures Please" a red sash? Black bandanna? bring out the hanky codes, but make it obvious on a participant.

thoughts?

What about "Camera Repair Camp"?

A camp hosting work-benches with everything you need to "fix" your camera:
hammers (button tapper)
steel wire brushes (lens scrapers)
hack saw (focus files)
drills (flash card punchs)
bucket of water (camera rinses)
solar ovens (camera warmers)
chisels (bezel bumpers)

Advertise daily workshops in the events calender. Host a happy hour, get everyone drunk, then convince them to destroy their cameras.
Image

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DaftBrian
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Bringing Democracy back to BRC?

Post by DaftBrian » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:26 pm

Hmm..is there a definitive date to when Democracy did exist? Frankly, I choose my own theme not only yearly at Burning Man, but DAILY. As a matter of fact, nowadays, Larry and the BMORG have very little influence upon my time spent at BRC.

Without the Beta Beta Kappa "insurgents", and other groups like them existing within the burn, we would fail to be such the random, self expressive community that in fact we are. Maybe instead of shunning that basketball camp across the way ran by the frat boys, we should embrace them and appreciate their attempts at participation. In doing so I believe they would gain a better understanding on the nature of the burn, and in return pass that feeling along to their comrades.

Restoring the right of women to walk naked without being photographed? What right is that again? I say restore the right for someone with a camera to capture ANY image they see fit. I personally do not support the obscene amount of photographers flashing away at the bare chests of fellow burners, but is it not as much their right to take pictures as it is for every inhabitant of BRC to walk around naked? We all know how fecking ridiculous critical tits got in 07 (and how it had been worsening to that point) with the plague like crowd that wreaked havoc upon the parade, even causing partial, temporary shut downs! However, this is a result of irresponsible, incredibly rude, individuals which in no way should represent the whole of camera users. Also, just because I'm taking a picture of an object on the playa doesn't mean that I never participate or interact in other ways..so don't come to that prediction. I make sure to set aside days and times to roll around with my camera and never even bring it out till i feel that I've already taken in a lot of what the year has to offer. Experience the event through your own eyes first, then decide what you'd like to capture through the sight of your lens.

The exploitation of our culture through COMMUNITIES such as flickr and YouTube can also be seen as just the opposite. Through those sites, BRC gains new potential thinkers/ideas/additions to itself. I believe that much of the exploitation that the burn suffers from widely takes place there, on the playa, and have found that many others share the same thought.

Reasonable cost for ice?? Haha, you gotta be joking.

Maybe instead of banning cameras (which is IMPOSSIBLE by the way), new burners should receive more information on proper camera use and "burn etiquette", because obviously the precautions taken already are failing.

Simply put, if you really don't want your picture taken, or are a "very private person" BRC is not for you!

Security does not exist in nature.
He appears mad indeed but to a few, because the majority is infected with the same disease. [Lat., Nimirum insanus paucis videatur, eo quod Maxima pars hominum morbo jactatur eodem.]

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