Attn: Folks with art cars built from golf carts

eatdrinkadam · Post by **eatdrinkadam** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:23 pm

Hello,

I am building an art car this year, and i plan to use the motor and chassis of a golf cart as a base.

I am seeking advice as to what type of golf cart i should use. Electric or gas powered.

Ive looked into the pro's and con's of both, however i am leaning towards gas powered considering the power needed to charge an electric motor.

Does anyone use an art car built from a golf cart that could give me a few pointers?

Thanks in advance!!

-Beep

mojo · Post by **mojo** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:34 pm

Definitely gas. We have an electric one and the batteries need constant recharging so you end up running a big generator anyway. It really sucks to be out on the playa and have the batteries fail. We have had to help it get home several times.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:26 am

The silence of the electrics is nice.
Also the older gas models are often shot.
Make sure you have something that will keep running.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:58 am

gyre wrote:The silence of the electrics is nice.
Also the older gas models are often shot.
Make sure you have something that will keep running.

If your running gas, please running the exhust up and out above head level.

Oh I vote gas.. makes more sence than recharging..

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:53 am

There's a reason why ESD doesn't use electric carts anymore. More trouble than they are worth.

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:23 am

Why make an art cart? Make a mutant vehicle with balls. Buy a small car from a junkyard and strip the body. More HP = more riders and stuff you can load on. Seriously. I think a golfcart is the WORST possible thing someone could use to build a mutant vehicle. (Notice I'm not using the term "art car"?) The frames are weak, power of motor is low and nine times out of ten, everyone knows your another gussied up golf cart. Suspension is also crappy as well as on-board electric from the generator/alternator.

I'm dead serious, find an old car that has body damage. All you want is the frame and engine in good shape. Everything else should go. Your tires will hold up better. Your suspension and frame won't snap under a heavy load. Your power needs wil be met better. You'll have more frame and body structure to bolt/weld the mutations to. You'll have the engine power to drive right through the small dunes on the playa and haul a lot more people then a little cart. The MV communtity will respect you more as well for not adding yet another art cart to the playa. Autos also burn fuel better and don't stink as much as the small motors in the carts.

Autos will also cost less ot buy.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:29 am

For some people hauling something that size is an issue.

And a narrower vehicle will go places a larger one won't.
Since the bodies pop off, it's very flexible.
Whether they are more or less interesting than the run of the mill party barge is up to the creator.

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:50 am

Rat Bastard is right. Golf carts are LAME mutant vehicle platforms, for all the reasons he listed. And that's from a mechanical standpoint, not just an aesthetic one.
I'd go a step further and say screw using a car at all and build something... but if you want an existing chassis to start with, I think a small pickup is the first thing I'd look at. It actually has a frame that you can remove the body from. Get something with an automatic trans.
OK, a golf cart is narrower and will fit in a tighter place, but the playa is huge, that's pretty much a moot point at Burning Man.
It's not like a golf cart-based mutant vehicle was going to fit in your trunk, you're going to have to trailer it in anyway, so transport isn't a big deal either.

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:23 am

Actually, mine IS built off an old pickup. My trailering options are tougher though. It's a lot more weight then one built on a car.

But Captn, I had 34 friggin people on it for the burn and my springs were still smiling, not frowning! I thought my limit would be 20 peeps. I think I could drive with 30 if not a few more. Gotta love it.

I could have built a chassy, but I had the pickup rusting away already. A ground up MV vs a frame up MV is worlds apart. I'm pretty good, but I'd still leave the drive train to the guys in Detroit.

Can't wait to see all my eplaya MV owners out for the BRC MV Pub Crawl.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:27 am

It's all easy to say when you're not going far.
Hundreds of pounds v thousands, not make a difference?
Golf carts are too heavy and large for me actually.

Some designs work better smaller.
Just depends.

And width?
I've driven small and large and small is easier.
It seems the big playa is cluttered with one thing and another in the city.

oleg8888 · Post by **oleg8888** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:59 am

We've built one based on a yamaha gas car. It was the "greenest" mutant on the playa (after bikes). In 4 days of driving, with at least 6 people on it, we burned 2 (two) gallons of gas - can't beat that.
It would beat any car or truck based creation (unless you planning to have parties on yours)
It's lighter then any car. Golf cart itself weights about 600#.
Make sure it's running well, tuneup and replace all the small parts in question.
I also sugest to protect it somehow from the botom to prevent the dust from geting in to system.
Check us out last year:

P.S. You can always sell the golf cart, but not the truck

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:57 pm

oleg8888 wrote:P.S. You can always sell the golf cart, but not the truck

If you can sell the golf cart as a golf cart after making a mutant vehicle out of it you obviously didn't do much "mutating" to it in the first place. It's this "mutation level" that the DMV is getting less leanient on. Hence why it's called the Department of Mutant Vehicles. Not the Department of Art Cars. I've seen your art cart before. Looks like y'all had a lot of fun. But. And this is an important but. The DMV is being rather strict toward MVs that still have the base vehicle showing. Especially on small ones that can only carry a few people. The ones that can carry 15-20 or even more get away with more due to their people moving capacity. Which is a rule for all MVs, you have to give rides to those in need.

A golfcart shaped glowfur monster will not pass this year. (not speaking of yours oleg) There is a nice set of photos and articles on what IS and what IS NOT a mutant vehicle along with a ton of other insights that the DMV has to offer on tribe...

http://tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/photos

I would urge anyone and everyone with anything to do with an MV to look at it. If you would like to change something or make the DMV better, you should also volunteer. If folks are not willing to volunteer their time to a BM department then they don't have the priviledge of complaining about said department. Be a doer, not a bitcher!

Cheers

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:18 pm

I think the demand for small useful vehicles is quite high even w/o the body.
But remember that the bodies come off and go back on.
I know of one that goes back to stock and back to mutant every year.
My cousin even uses several golf carts to feed horses and get around his land.

I'm trying to figure out how to build what I want and still use it on the street, with or without alteration.
I'm stuck, so far.

oleg8888 · Post by **oleg8888** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:26 pm

RB, there are no rules or guidleins on size of the MV or how many people it can haul. In fact it's the opposite, MV should be an art first and transportation second. Furthermore, if it's desighned just as transportation, DMV will not license it.
If you look closely at our mutant, you can't telll right away what it's based on. We had people asking us this question all the time.
And, I was carying up to 15 burners at the timet - it might be hard to believe, but it's true. It cost me a few broken coasters, but it was worth it. And I figured out why they were breaking too, so should be no problem this year

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:29 pm

oleg, peef found some coasters that hold up.
He said they aren't cheap, but reliable.

oleg8888 · Post by **oleg8888** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:30 pm

gyre wrote: I'm trying to figure out how to build what I want and still use it on the street, with or without alteration.
I'm stuck, so far.

The way we did it - we removed the front and rear bumpers from golf cart and bolted steel corners directly to cart's frame without any drilling.
The rest of the platform was attached to these corners.

oleg8888 · Post by **oleg8888** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:37 pm

gyre wrote:oleg, peef found some coasters that hold up.
He said they aren't cheap, but reliable.

I'd love to look at them.
On another hand, I figured what ruined 5 out of 10 coasters we had. If you look at the picture, you'll notice that 2 bolts are missing. They hold the rimm together. Some of the coasters are missing all 4 bolts and that's what kills them. Fairly easy to fix.
I found nice qty coasters at harborfreight for $12.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:40 pm

That's where we got ours too ... enough weight can pop the inner tube if not inflated correctly. We bring spares for our carts.

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:28 pm

oleg8888 wrote:RB, there are no rules or guidleins on size of the MV or how many people it can haul. In fact it's the opposite, MV should be an art first and transportation second. Furthermore, if it's desighned just as transportation, DMV will not license it.
If you look closely at our mutant, you can't telll right away what it's based on. We had people asking us this question all the time.
And, I was carying up to 15 burners at the timet - it might be hard to believe, but it's true. It cost me a few broken coasters, but it was worth it. And I figured out why they were breaking too, so should be no problem this year

I can tell right away by the golf cart roof that's still there and the body shape. Yes, you have a platform around it. But I still think it's obvious.

Also, the DMV does NOT judge art. If it did, there would be far less MVs on the playa. Did you take a look at the link I posted?

http://tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/photos

I don't think you did because of your quick reply.

I also never said anything about size limitations on MVs. All I said was that ones that hold more people have more leaniency on the base vehicle showing rule. It's their community offering. A two seater golf cart does not offer this and therefore can't use it's "usefullness to the community" as a barganing chip for a license.

Personally, I'm tired of people wanting to do the bare minimum for a MV. The "how can I mutate mine so it's not actually perminant?" question annoys me. WHY BOTHER MAKING IT? Is it personal transportation? If not, why not make something BIGGER for the rest of the citizens to enjoy? I get pissed when I see art carts that are nothing more then a golf cart with some stuff mounted on it and the owner wants to call it a mutant vehicle when the only mutation is a piece of art on the roof that would just as well be enjoyed placed in a camp. My MV and countless others are actually MUTATED. Permanently. They were made for BM and other events. We didn't make them so we could sell them or drive them on the road later. We made Mutant Vehicles. We took the leap. We didn't look back.

When I hear questions about being able to be street legal or being able to sell it as "original OEM" the first thing that comes to mind is that people are more concerned with having personal transportation. Not building a mutant vehicle. Leave the golf cart at the golf course, farm or whatever, bring a bicycle and ask for a ride on a real mutant. One that's not going to break under your feet.

Sorry to be such a dick about this but seriously, BRC is starting to look like a retirement community on acid with all the decorated art carts. Most of which having no actual mutation other then stuff glued and screwed on to them. That is not art, nor mutant, it's personal conveyence by doing the absolute minimum to get a license.

If you think otherwise, fine. Submit your application by June 30th to the DMV. We'll see how wrong I am.

RB

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:36 pm

gyre wrote:I think the demand for small useful vehicles is quite high even w/o the body.
But remember that the bodies come off and go back on.
I know of one that goes back to stock and back to mutant every year.
My cousin even uses several golf carts to feed horses and get around his land.

I'm trying to figure out how to build what I want and still use it on the street, with or without alteration.
I'm stuck, so far.

Let's start with this.
Why do you want to bring a MV to BRC?
What do you want it to look like?
Would it kill you to bring a decked out bicycle instead?
Why do you want to build an MV?
Have you had your brain examined lately?

Answer these questions and I will help you all I can. Some simple fabricating like Oleg's example is all you need. Personally, I would have unbolted the body as well as the bumpers. Down the the frame. The only reason I left the truck bed on mine was for structual reasons for the second floor. Everything else is gone except half the driver's cab.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:26 pm

Are these serious questions?

Why do you want to build an MV?
Have you had your brain examined lately?

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:47 pm

Sure they are. I'm a craftsman. I have a reason for everything. I also know ya gotz ta bee a lil crazy to build one!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:42 pm

If you don't know why, I doubt I could explain it.

I came to burning man for the art cars.
I go back for the people.

The design is proprietary.
Surprize will be part of the fun.
I have already vetted it with the dmv.
But I'm open to new ideas.
It has to be small, so I can get it there.
If you're volunteering to help with 4500 miles of transport and storage costs, I'd be happy to explore something larger.
But I have no interest in a run of the mill party barge.
If I can go bigger, big fire would be the first thing I would add.
I have a flame effect planned now, but uncertain if I can do it the way I want and pass certain safety restrictions.
I had a chance to fire the big quad cannon, but I kept missing the truck last year.
If you have ideas, email me and we can talk.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:22 am

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/ar ... EER9Q1.DTL
I think the casters may have been upgraded from this photo

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:00 am

well, I love you Ratbastard but this is a pretty dope little mutant vehichle gyre's got at that link. looks like a lot of bang for it's size.

I agree with you Rat but obviously there are exceptions...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:19 am

That's the Mobius by Peef
From a dead stop, it can start in any direction.
It can maneuver in 90 degree turns, and I don't mean in an arc.
Can you identify the original vehicle?
Is it a well hidden golf cart or escapee from Area 52?

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:35 am

man. i don't know. it's pretty cool though. i wanna ride it.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:26 am

I for one resent BM's DMV lumping all into MV's..

My shit my not be art to you but I try for myself.. It's a put down to be classed with MAd Max crap and junky party barges..Or some of the other stuff that get lic. or if you know someone in DMV..

I went to all peddel for awhile. This year I'm building from the ground up.. It will be peddle base but will have a 24v assist.. So I will have to resgister the thing..

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:48 am

thirt33n wrote:well, I love you Ratbastard but this is a pretty dope little mutant vehichle gyre's got at that link. looks like a lot of bang for it's size.

I agree with you Rat but obviously there are exceptions...

THAT, is a mutant vehicle. Looks like a hat as well! I can't tell from first glance what it used to be at all. Room for lots of riders too. Gotta love that. We'll have to talk offlist about the new project.

Rat Bastard · Post by **Rat Bastard** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:00 am

unjonharley wrote:I for one resent BM's DMV lumping all into MV's..

My shit my not be art to you but I try for myself.. It's a put down to be classed with MAd Max crap and junky party barges..Or some of the other stuff that get lic. or if you know someone in DMV..

I went to all peddel for awhile. This year I'm building from the ground up.. It will be peddle base but will have a 24v assist.. So I will have to resgister the thing..

Ok, before we all start making assumtions about the DMV being art critics and crooked with nepitism lets do some reading shall we?

http://tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/photos/eb0 ... bbf6e53111

I urge you to read through the other 84 pages as well. Keep in mind, without the horrible people at the DMV, NO ONE would be able to drive anything at BRC. The story of that is in those 85 pages.

I'd be curious to see a picture of what the DMV denied. The DMV does not judge art. Period. What the DMV does and does not do is clearly stated on the links provided and on the BM site. Does anyone know how many licenses the DMV gives out each year? Does anyone know how many support staff (DPW, Ranger, LEO, EMS) permits are issued each year? Handicapped permits? Lots of different types of reasons for vehicles to be out there. They are NOT all DMV approved Mutant Vehicles.

Please read. and spread the knowledge! Squash the myths.

http://tribes.tribe.net/bmmv/photos/

Just start with a photo and go!