Arrests and Crime stats?

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ZaphodBurner
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Post by ZaphodBurner » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:47 pm

BitterDan wrote: Thats not really the point AntiM. I don't think people are saying that it is our constitutional right to smoke pot but illegal search and seizure is absolutely a violation of our rights. Also, harrassment is illegal and any officers participating in it are nothing more than neo-nazis.
Well... ...okay, but the Nazis would have killed, tortured or enslaved you and used your drugs on themselves. The police out there are obeying a sworn oath to uphold their job and enforce state and federal law.

Should they? To some extent at least, yes. If BM becomes a drug haven, it will be filled with drug dealers. PDX is occasionally afflicted by rashes of overdoses from bad heroin, and drug gangs on the west coast are bad shit. I think they could serve burners, taxpayers and the Great State of Nevada a whole lot better if they worried about the child prostitution and drug use going on in, say, Reno and stopped trying to bust joint-passing burners, but, I bet we all agree.

Busting somebody for smoking a joint is lame, but I bet there's a whole hell of a lot of instances of somebody getting spotted through night vision, headlights, smell or plain site where the cop just decides it's not worth fucking somebody over for a pipe hit. Others don't get it yet.

By the way, Dan, I heard a lot of great things about the moonshine tavern, and there were police hovering around there all the time. Saw somebody loaded into an ambulance one night and figured "Well, it's moonshine." I also wondered if serving "moonshine" offered a 100% probability of a visit by the ATF revenooers. Anything like that happen to you guys?

-c
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

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unjonharley
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Post by unjonharley » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:00 pm

No cegar Gage,,

The first hit changes you..

What the hell do you think drugs put in controled doses for.

Your playing in my ballpark now..
Been around drug rehab for over forty years. Seen em come and go.. When useing they all knew everything about everything. Once the drugs kicked em in the nuts they knew nothing..

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Post by Gage » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:17 pm

unjonharley wrote:No cegar Gage,,

The first hit changes you..

What the hell do you think drugs put in controled doses for.

Your playing in my ballpark now..
Been around drug rehab for over forty years. Seen em come and go.. When useing they all knew everything about everything. Once the drugs kicked em in the nuts they knew nothing..
And thank you for clarifying for everyone.

Rehab. Which means they could not control whatever they are in rehab for. Refer back to my previous post for clarification. :)

I have been around different people all my life who have dabbled here, dabbled there, tried this or that, and predominently, have been able to use certain enhancements in moderation and controlled it completely.

People get into trouble when normal life is to drab, and they need an escape from that life by chemical means.

For the record: I've never tried things that many consider 1-hit addictions - i.e. heroin, crack. I felt I was wise enough to know I wasn't wiser than the narcotic.

Humans can handle 99% of anything they tackle if a) properly educated AND prepared and b)luck doesn't kick em in the teeth with some rare or abstract, undefensible occurence.

The truth is out there. I miss Mulder. But Californication is 645,432 smarter... 8)
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RE: Unjonharley's comments

Post by vertigo900 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:19 pm

[quote="unjonharley"]intrapment your ass..

you bring drugs to Burning Man to play the game. You get busted and cry about it..

less than one part of one per cent are ticketed..

Anyone would be dumb to believe this intrapment crap..

If I were a cop this last year I would of had a feild day.. Dumb shits were lighting up down wind of me all the time.. Would have just had to follow my nose..

This leads me to believe the one crying intrapment are full of shit..[/quote]

Spoken like a true burner. Hey I have a really great idea...next year let's have a book burning camp and burn all the indecent library books we can find and throw in a copy of the Bill of Rights! Who needs the 4th Amendment to when you have the Patriot Act to protect ones sense of security! :D Hey isn't it totally brilliant how they entitled it! They must have said to themselves...I'm a patriot, and I like to act...let's name it The Patriot Act! We can even perform a mock execution of some criminal druggies and throw in a couple of hippies for carrying backpacks! I love Burning Man! I guess this is your American Dream, Right?

GO MCCAIN/PALIN 2008!!! Besides she loves to burn library books too, and fire any librarians who get in her way.

WTF??? I can't believe you weren't even a present witness and you are discounting my experience. F'n thanks, my fellow burner!!! FYI, I wasn't carrying any illicit drugs, nor was I under the influence of any illicit drugs and I have been harassed multiple times over the last nine years of attendance. I have seen innocent people be arrested for being in the presence of a total entrapment and taken to BRC jail and released in the dark, barefoot a mile away from their camp on Burn night. I have seen innocent, non-drug carrying folks have they're hand grabbed out of their pocket for disposing of gum wrapper. So don't even f'n question my experiences when you weren't even f'n there! PERIOD.

Your indifferent comments and disdain for plight of fellow burners rights and the sanctity of BRC truly disappoints me. Now I'm really pissed!!!

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Post by unjonharley » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:37 pm

So now we have a person that out 50k is followed around by the police.. He knowns when anyone that's pickup is innicent by sight.. He follows them through the night to see them striped of there shoes and released miles from there camp..

What the hell kind of bullshit are you expecting anyone to believe?

If you do not fuck with the cops you will not be fucked with.. I stoped fucking around with the law and they leave me alone..

Any of you realy want to get jamed up, mess with the trible police that are on the playa.. This is federal ground and you can get ten for a smoked pipe.. The BLM are being nice just giving you a ticket and expecting o show up in court..

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vertigo900
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Post by vertigo900 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:49 pm

[quote="unjonharley"]So now we have a person that out 50k is followed around by the police.. He knowns when anyone that's pickup is innicent by sight.. He follows them through the night to see them striped of there shoes and released miles from there camp..

What the hell kind of bullshit are you expecting anyone to believe?

If you do not fuck with the cops you will not be fucked with.. I stoped fucking around with the law and they leave me alone..

Any of you realy want to get jamed up, mess with the trible police that are on the playa.. This is federal ground and you can get ten for a smoked pipe.. The BLM are being nice just giving you a ticket and expecting o show up in court..[/quote]

AH HAH! I finally get it! You got me! I should have recognized you by all your typos, Captain Instigator. I can see smokin all those poprocks have done you real good! ;D I thought thought the rangers threw the capitalist pig camp out of BRC years ago. Apparently they can't block your IP, yet. I'm not wasting anymore of my time replying to your nonsensical gibberish. With people like you lurking about, I am glad we do have law enforcement in this world. Thanks for the laugh!

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Post by unjonharley » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:50 pm

Yeah Gage your just like any druggy. Bullet proof until you get hit.. I've seen alot of you.. Boy can you squeel when your traped..

Right I have a son in law with a card to grow his own.. He can't see his marrage,house,cars everything is slipping away.. The law can't touch him..

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Post by chiefdanfox » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:00 pm

Y'all ought to see all of the shit the drug gangs are leaving in Sequoia National Park, and the national forests out here CA, all to grow weed.

LNT?
Plastic bags from fertilizer, shit paper, crapping in streams, water diversions, netting, garbage, all kinds of bullshit, not to mention the more-or-less forced (slave) labor. I'd trade the entire playa mooped three feet high to get those "growers" out of the Sierra Nevada.

I have to think if it was CDF or CA rangers they'd just take you out and shoot you if they caught you. I totally support NORML, and I know that the entire problem is the bullshit war on drugs, but until that shit is legal, it is a clusterfuck for pristine wilderness.

A ticket ain't so bad. Think about all that moop in the Sierra next time you spark one.

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Post by unjonharley » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:07 pm

Damn Chief that sound nasty.. I hear it is up here in the north now..

I have worked a couple of labs that had blowen up here in town..Pity those poor bastards that have to clean up a woods..

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Post by Gage » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:23 pm

unjonharley wrote:Yeah Gage your just like any druggy. Bullet proof until you get hit.. I've seen alot of you.. Boy can you squeel when your traped..
Your grammar is atrocious. Your words are choppy. Your thoughts (put into text) are obscure and lacking strength or conviction.

So my off-the-cuff guesses to describe you would be:

1) The English language isn't your first language. If it is, then the human race is suffering because you've obviously pro-created.
-or-
2) You are an addict yourself or a free-and-clear addict. Soap-box time is all you have now. Your grammar still matches a 4th grader at best.
-or-
3) You lack the openness to understand that you don't know it all, and for that, you are the most dangerous kind of person. Stubborn, opinionated AND uninformed, and YOU don't know it.
-or-
4) All of the above.

Re-read your posts, and then re-read my post. Which one sounds like the druggy?

You're just a burner version of a bible-thumper. So to close out my discussion with you /unjonharley/ in the immortal words of Forrest Gump ~ "That's all I have to say about that."
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Post by hsdavis » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:29 pm

I traveled across the country with my art car and did not have any problems with police along the way. Once in BM, I had 6 separate encounters with police. None were specific, just fishing for something illegal. I was never accused of anything and never charged with anything. I can only attribute this to these poor bastards being bored out of their minds the other 51 weeks of the year. They finally get to be "the authority" and puff out their chests. I had no drugs and did absolutely nothing wrong and still these assholes were giving me a hard time and detaining me while they tried to figure out if I was in trouble. Just catch their eye and you will see.
This was probably the biggest turn off this year was dealing with the LEOs. It will probably be the reason that I don't return next year. I have documented all the details with BMORG, but they are stuck just like we are. Too much money for these guys to make to give up on it and once they have several arrests under their belts, it only justifies their existance and numbers.

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Post by unjonharley » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:32 pm

yup gage, you got me..

didn't get the 5th grade. had to work for my drugs. crippled body and brain from rat poison in my drugs and car wreaks.. a hell of a lot smarter than you cus your still young and to full of shit to put anything real in..

hear from you again when you hit the end of your rope K?

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Post by vertigo900 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:14 pm

GageNdG, you're a better man than me. Thanks for your response! ;D

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Post by BitterDan » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:59 pm

I also wondered if serving "moonshine" offered a 100% probability of a visit by the ATF revenooers. Anything like that happen to you guys?
Nope. It's perfectly legal to transport and give away moonshine. As long as it's not being sold, there are no revenue issues. Distilling it is the only illegal part and that is done in undisclosed location.
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Post by Gage » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:17 pm

vertigo900 wrote:GageNdG, you're a better man than me. Thanks for your response! ;D
:oops:
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Post by chiefdanfox » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:37 pm

unjonharley wrote:Damn Chief that sound nasty.. I hear it is up here in the north now..

I have worked a couple of labs that had blowen up here in town..Pity those poor bastards that have to clean up a woods..
It is. They just busted about $1 billion in plants in a trail-less area in Sequoia, the most recent of many. A lot of the watershed had been diverted (we are in a drought), and there was monkey shit all over the backyard, so to speak. Erosion, loss of habitat, rubbish, pollution, you name it. Suffice to say, loggers have infinitely better stewardship over land than drug cartels. Weed growers out here are tantamount to strip miners.

Yep, it is headed north, but not as another hated California export. I am guessing there is a good market for weed in OR. (Well, that and flannel ;) )

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assault

Post by buttercups » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:56 pm

OUr encounter with the authorities had nothing to do with what we were up to but instead the trippin 300lb agro Gorilla dude that walked into our camp all pissed off and psycho...he ended up sucker punching my boyfriend in the head three times while he was just flippin some burgers. Everyone in our camp jumped on dude until the police came. Since my boyfriend just wanted the guy gone rather than to press charges the rangers subdued the guy (not easy) while his wife packed up camp and they got ejected.

The police were okay...Pershing county guys were actually awesome and the black rock rangers...especially Thor...were very cool about keeping the peace. Tense situation. No extra trouble caused by the police though the BLM dudes were a bit dickish. A lot of tolerance really since the Gorilla seemed like he was going to attack the cops. Now, after 5 burns, my boryfriend might not want to go back. Sad. One bad apple can really fuck things up. Agro Gorilla guy for sure had drugs on him but no search. That doesn't seem quite fair given the stories of other people.

Be careful out there Burners and take care of each other.
Buttercup

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:07 pm

GageNdG wrote:
unjonharley wrote:Yeah Gage your just like any druggy. Bullet proof until you get hit.. I've seen alot of you.. Boy can you squeel when your traped..
Your grammar is atrocious. Your words are choppy. Your thoughts (put into text) are obscure and lacking strength or conviction.

So my off-the-cuff guesses to describe you would be:

1) The English language isn't your first language. If it is, then the human race is suffering because you've obviously pro-created.
-or-
2) You are an addict yourself or a free-and-clear addict. Soap-box time is all you have now. Your grammar still matches a 4th grader at best.
-or-
3) You lack the openness to understand that you don't know it all, and for that, you are the most dangerous kind of person. Stubborn, opinionated AND uninformed, and YOU don't know it.
-or-
4) All of the above.

Re-read your posts, and then re-read my post. Which one sounds like the druggy?

You're just a burner version of a bible-thumper. So to close out my discussion with you /unjonharley/ in the immortal words of Forrest Gump ~ "That's all I have to say about that."
You don't sound very smart right now.
Just because Unjon doesn't edit as much as someone else has nothing to do with whether he is right or wrong.
Perhaps you're having difficulty focusing on the point of the argument?


There is genetic testing to show some people's reactions to different drugs, but it is far from comprehensive.
Some people just don't have the same experience the average person has with drugs or alcohol.
Most people actually don't enjoy narcotics.
But others find out they can't stay away from alcohol or other drugs the hard way.

They just aren't fighting the same fight.

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Re: assault

Post by gyre » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:11 pm

buttercups wrote:OUr encounter with the authorities had nothing to do with what we were up to but instead the trippin 300lb agro Gorilla dude that walked into our camp all pissed off and psycho...he ended up sucker punching my boyfriend in the head three times while he was just flippin some burgers. Everyone in our camp jumped on dude until the police came. Since my boyfriend just wanted the guy gone rather than to press charges the rangers subdued the guy (not easy) while his wife packed up camp and they got ejected.

The police were okay...Pershing county guys were actually awesome and the black rock rangers...especially Thor...were very cool about keeping the peace. Tense situation. No extra trouble caused by the police though the BLM dudes were a bit dickish. A lot of tolerance really since the Gorilla seemed like he was going to attack the cops. Now, after 5 burns, my boryfriend might not want to go back. Sad. One bad apple can really fuck things up. Agro Gorilla guy for sure had drugs on him but no search. That doesn't seem quite fair given the stories of other people.

Be careful out there Burners and take care of each other.
Sounds like a bad time.
If you had pressed charges, they would have searched him.

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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:08 am

You can always file charges and drop them later.
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Post by unjonharley » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:20 am

theCryptofishist wrote:You can always file charges and drop them later.


Got "myself" in trouble doing that.

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Re: RE: Unjonharley's comments

Post by ZaphodBurner » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:23 am

vertigo900 wrote:FYI, I wasn't carrying any illicit drugs, nor was I under the influence of any illicit drugs and I have been harassed multiple times over the last nine years of attendance.
Weird. Neither myself nor anybody I've ever camped with ever has.

-c
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Post by gyre » Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:14 pm

Anyone who might have drugs is too scared to complain.
Rightfully so too.

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vertigo900
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Smoke my battery

Post by vertigo900 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:20 pm

gyre wrote:Anyone who might have drugs is too scared to complain.
Rightfully so too.
Exactly. Personally I have nothing to be concerned with in regards to possession. However, I cannot be sure 100% of my campmates can say the same and have had to bite my tongue in such situations as when the Pershing Sheriff came into my camp because I the camera battery I was carrying looked like a pipe. He drove staring right at me several times while I was messing with my camera. I kept looking at him wondering what his issue was and finally found out.

I think it's time for the LEOs to have some monitoring and oversight.

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Post by Mad Maxine » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:22 pm

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that some of the LEOs on duty at the festival are being trained to do their jobs. What better a place to do that than a crazy party of 50,000 people in costumes where drug use is a known factor?

On another note, anyone stupid enough to either give drugs to, or receive drugs from, someone they don't know is participating in a form of natural selection. Why the hell would you want to take something when you're not sure where it came from or whether it's any good and risk possible illness or arrest? Come on! Really! Some risk-management skills would be usefull here.

Regarding drug use in particular: I know a [u]few [/u]people who struggle with their addictions. I also know [u]a lot [/u]of people who use non-prescription medications successfully and know their limits. Medications in this society include sugar, alcohol, caffeine, and then all of the illegal vices.

It's unproductive that any of these things are regulated IMHO. If currently illegal vices were de-regulated, we'd go a long way toward real awareness of irresponsible use.

It's unfortunate that some people can't control their urges and continuously make high risk or unproductive decisions about what they ingest. It's unfortunate that people get hassled by the LEOs for no particular reason. And it's also unfortunate that some LEOs are dick-heads.

The best thing we can do is continue to document our interactions with LEOs (good and bad) , stop with the illegal activities in obvious places, and know our limits. Those are the most effective ways to be responsible for our own experiences that I can see from this discussion.

Better luck next year.
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Post by Ak01 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:29 pm

I had an interesting encounter Sunday after the temple burn. I was somewhat lost trying to find camp while the beginnings of the white out were kicking up a ton of dust. I had two friends with me and occasionally we would stop and ask for our current location and then walk on.

I saw a guy on a bike heading our way and decided to ask him for directions. Everything was cool until he whipped out a camcorder and started filming us. "So you guys are lost huh?", "Where are you camped?", "I'm from NYC this is my first Burningman", "Yeah I really want to move to California and sign up for one of those medicinal MJ things!", "Hey you should give me your address so I can look you up when I get there!".

and on and on and on. Every word that came out of this guys mouth just rubbed me the wrong way and screamed "undercover". We walked fast. I didn't have anything on me that would get me in trouble but it still bothered me for a few hours afterwards.

Luckily no one I knew or saw got arrested this burn.
-Ak01

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Post by Gage » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:02 pm

Mad Maxine wrote:I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that some of the LEOs on duty at the festival are being trained to do their jobs. What better a place to do that than a crazy party of 50,000 people in costumes where drug use is a known factor?

On another note, anyone stupid enough to either give drugs to, or receive drugs from, someone they don't know is participating in a form of natural selection. Why the hell would you want to take something when you're not sure where it came from or whether it's any good and risk possible illness or arrest? Come on! Really! Some risk-management skills would be usefull here.

Regarding drug use in particular: I know a few people who struggle with their addictions. I also know a lot of people who use non-prescription medications successfully and know their limits. Medications in this society include sugar, alcohol, caffeine, and then all of the illegal vices.

It's unproductive that any of these things are regulated IMHO. If currently illegal vices were de-regulated, we'd go a long way toward real awareness of irresponsible use.

It's unfortunate that some people can't control their urges and continuously make high risk or unproductive decisions about what they ingest. It's unfortunate that people get hassled by the LEOs for no particular reason. And it's also unfortunate that some LEOs are dick-heads.

The best thing we can do is continue to document our interactions with LEOs (good and bad) , stop with the illegal activities in obvious places, and know our limits. Those are the most effective ways to be responsible for our own experiences that I can see from this discussion.

Better luck next year.
:!: :P
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Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:07 pm

Maxine--you probably want to go to your profile and uncheck the box that says "disable BBCode"

That's the third time I've had to say that today. All these newbies innudating the board.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Post by J.C. » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:52 pm

oleg8888 wrote:According to SFgatete website there was only 1 arrest. Could media be lieing again???? :?
It's possible that the "arrest" count was correct when it was printed. I think that the Law Enforcement agencies would much rather write tickets (for infractions that bring in over $100 each.)

I know that some of these tickets were for driving on the playa (at $125 a pop) even though no such statute exists on the books. So it you, your friends, or friends of friends, got a ticket, make sure you contact the Lawyers For Burners. This is pure Bulls^!t profiteering.

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Post by J.C. » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:56 pm

Mad Maxine wrote:I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that some of the LEOs on duty at the festival are being trained to do their jobs. What better a place to do that than a crazy party of 50,000 people in costumes where drug use is a known factor?

On another note, anyone stupid enough to either give drugs to, or receive drugs from, someone they don't know is participating in a form of natural selection. Why the hell would you want to take something when you're not sure where it came from or whether it's any good and risk possible illness or arrest? Come on! Really! Some risk-management skills would be usefull here.

Regarding drug use in particular: I know a few people who struggle with their addictions. I also know a lot of people who use non-prescription medications successfully and know their limits. Medications in this society include sugar, alcohol, caffeine, and then all of the illegal vices.

It's unproductive that any of these things are regulated IMHO. If currently illegal vices were de-regulated, we'd go a long way toward real awareness of irresponsible use.

It's unfortunate that some people can't control their urges and continuously make high risk or unproductive decisions about what they ingest. It's unfortunate that people get hassled by the LEOs for no particular reason. And it's also unfortunate that some LEOs are dick-heads.

The best thing we can do is continue to document our interactions with LEOs (good and bad) , stop with the illegal activities in obvious places, and know our limits. Those are the most effective ways to be responsible for our own experiences that I can see from this discussion.

Better luck next year.
The Rangers have forms where you can document your interactions with REAL Law Enforcement. They're interested in both the good and the bad. Make sure you stop by Ranger H.Q. (near center camp) next time you have something to report.

However, if rumors of private land acquisition persist, maybe we won't have these problems to worry about in the future. ;)

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