The Ancestor's Tale by Richard Dawkins

burningcobra · Post by **burningcobra** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:18 pm

A Pilgrimage to the Dawn of Life

So it looks like my usual campmates are flaking on me, so I'm going to find some new folk to team up with his year.

In the spirit of the Evolution theme, I've been thinking about trying to find a spot to plug in and play The Ancestor's Tale by Richard Dawkins. If everything goes right, it could get listed in the What/Where/When with times to play part of it here and there over the week. The audiobook is about 9 hours total. It's read by Richard and his wife, and varies from lightly scientific to entertainingly allegorical as it attempts to explain and examine the complex origin of life. I think it would appeal to a broad spectrum of burners, who also could be entertained with supplemental activities later to be concocted.

Gimme a holler if you're interested. I'm still working out the details...

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:33 pm

a 9 hour audio book ??

Sounds like a good way to piss off the next group you camp with, no matter how on-topic it is.

Not trying to harsh your vibe, dude, but maybe do it out on open Playa where people can escape if they want to ?

burningcobra · Post by **burningcobra** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:43 pm

my vibe remains unharshed... no worries.

i've seen camps do similar things in the past. you'll notice i say 'play part of it' here and there throughout the week.

a good example was a camp we were by who played an hour or two of 'this american life' in their dome each day during the week and served refreshments to beat the heat... chilled out afterward and chit-chatted. seemed like 20 or 30 different peeps showed up each time. same bat-time same bat-channel each day.

thanks for the input tho.. like i said, still working out the details. if i could figure out a way to get it out to the open playa, i'd probably do that too. probably could go longer out there. seems like a better idea to do in smaller doses in a chillzone.

oneeyeddick · Post by **oneeyeddick** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:52 pm

Sorry about that, I was speed-reading and missed the "part of it here and there" part.

Good luck...........

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:20 am

I thought this was Richard Dawkins:

vargaso · Post by **vargaso** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:09 am

I find Dawkins as annoying and dogmatic as the most strident Evangelical. Just my 2 cents.

burningcobra · Post by **burningcobra** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:45 am

good for you. everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:51 am

vargaso wrote:I find Dawkins as annoying and dogmatic as the most strident Evangelical. Just my 2 cents.

If he's dogmatic then we need a lot more of this kind of dogma in science and the world.

I loved "The God Delusion"

JK

burningcobra · Post by **burningcobra** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:16 pm

'The God Delusion' is great as well. Dawkins is always catching flack for his tone.. he's just really straightforward. It's not a surprise that some people find him offensive and irritating. I love the hate mail he reads in part 3 of his 'Genius of Charles Darwin' documentary.. about his intellect being 'the fart of god' and someone wishing him to be hit by a church bus.

I guess if I really wanted to annoy people, I could follow up with 'God is not Great' by Christopher Hitchens. 'The Ancestor's Tale' is less controversial than it is just entertaining. In any case, I'm not really worried about offending or annoying anyone with an audiobook. It's mighty big playa out there.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:17 pm

I would say he's more "self important" than anything. I learned a lot reading The God Delusion but I cringed quite a few times at the more pompous and dismissive portions. Like where he said sexually abusing children wasn't really that big of a deal, or the times where he would introduce some (in his view) brilliant quote by a prominent person, then the quote would basically just be that person saying he agreed with Dawkins. I haven't read anything else of his yet.

On the original topic, you probably wouldn't have the fanbase you would for TAL, but you might get some interest. You'd want a good shade structure near the road or on the playa, signage, etc. Have you tried listening to a random section in the middle of the book to see if it makes sense?

burningcobra · Post by **burningcobra** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:56 pm

You know that's a good point. The book is long, but is compartmentalized quite well into individual "Tales" of different animals as they are reached on the evolutionary chain. Some parts would be too scientific to walk into the middle of, but others are more story-like and could easily be enjoyed on their own. It's structure is slightly similar to Canterbury Tales.. but many of parts of the book are purely scientific examination. Depending on what part you walk in to the middle of, it may make complete sense or no sense at all.

This is why I think other evolution themed art activities would be nice to have during the listening times. Simply listening to the audiobook alone wouldn't be enough. The TAL tent last year was off the beaten path and still had a good amount of people show up, but I agree this would have to be closer to a main artery.

I'll have to read the God Delusion again to try and spot his dismissive attitude toward sex abuse.. didn't catch that the first time. The Ancestor's tale is much less argumentative than his critiques of religion. It assumes you're already interested in learning more about evolution, and not arguing about god or morality.

Thanks a ton for your input.. it's stuff like this that will help me figure out what kind of activity I'm tryin to get goin here.

vargaso · Post by **vargaso** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:44 pm

jkisha wrote:
vargaso wrote:I find Dawkins as annoying and dogmatic as the most strident Evangelical. Just my 2 cents.
If he's dogmatic then we need a lot more of this kind of dogma in science and the world.

I loved "The God Delusion"

JK

Dawkins is certain he's right. Certainty doesn't belong in science. In my opinion, certainty doesn't belong anywhere. But I could be wrong about that. :)

Anyway, that's what I meant when I said he's as dogmatic as an Evangelical. And I basically agree with most of his viewpoints. That said, I'll look for this if you decide to do it. I haven't come across something like this out there before.

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:59 pm

vargaso wrote:
Dawkins is certain he's right. Certainty doesn't belong in science. In my opinion, certainty doesn't belong anywhere. But I could be wrong about that.

Anyway, that's what I meant when I said he's as dogmatic as an Evangelical. And I basically agree with most of his viewpoints. That said, I'll look for this if you decide to do it. I haven't come across something like this out there before.

I knew exactly what you meant, my partner says the exact same thing about me! LOL

Considering that religion was the invention of the human mind, in my opinion, I think it is ok to be certain that god doesn't exist except in the mind or the believer.

JK

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Dork wrote: Like where he said sexually abusing children wasn't really that big of a deal

OK, I'm probably going to get into trouble here, expecially since you paraphrased what he said and those not familiar with how he said it might get the wrong idea; but I thought that was a perfect analogy.

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:22 pm

jkisha wrote:
vargaso wrote:
Dawkins is certain he's right. Certainty doesn't belong in science. In my opinion, certainty doesn't belong anywhere. But I could be wrong about that.

Anyway, that's what I meant when I said he's as dogmatic as an Evangelical. And I basically agree with most of his viewpoints. That said, I'll look for this if you decide to do it. I haven't come across something like this out there before.
I knew exactly what you meant, my partner says the exact same thing about me! LOL

Considering that religion was the invention of the human mind, in my opinion, I think it is ok to be certain that god doesn't exist except in the mind or the believer.

JK

I might also propose that religion is the "interpretation" of the human mind.......

If you subscribe to any belief in a "Hairy Thunderer, or, Cosmic Muffin" (deteriorata reference), and, want to follow anyone's "script,dogma, etc" then, you are placing faith in human interpretation of divine wisdom......and, how can that be accurate?

some people, when experiencing the world, (however that takes place), choose to attribute certain things to a god, or gods.......
We see the universe, solely, through our own eyes........so, if it's real to anyone, it's real, to them........
the problems, IMHO, are when they try to tell me that their perception is what I need, and, their thoughts should be mine........

*wondering where that just came from.....*

Post by **Elderberry** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:38 pm

ygmir wrote: I might also propose that religion is the "interpretation" of the human mind.......

If you subscribe to any belief in a "Hairy Thunderer, or, Cosmic Muffin" (deteriorata reference), and, want to follow anyone's "script,dogma, etc" then, you are placing faith in human interpretation of divine wisdom......and, how can that be accurate?

some people, when experiencing the world, (however that takes place), choose to attribute certain things to a god, or gods.......
We see the universe, solely, through our own eyes........so, if it's real to anyone, it's real, to them........
the problems, IMHO, are when they try to tell me that their perception is what I need, and, their thoughts should be mine........

*wondering where that just came from.....*

Everything is interpreted by the human mind. However religion is a 'concept' which is, I believe by definition, totally an invention of the mind, no? How can a concept exist if it isn't born from a thought?

And yes, a person's perception is their reality; it is only the accepted 'norm' of the society that labels psychotic reality insane fantasy and religious reality, well 'real?'.

I think that is why people don't like proselytizing--it conflicts with their belief in their own personal fantasy world (or lack there of).

JK

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:04 am

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote: I might also propose that religion is the "interpretation" of the human mind.......

If you subscribe to any belief in a "Hairy Thunderer, or, Cosmic Muffin" (deteriorata reference), and, want to follow anyone's "script,dogma, etc" then, you are placing faith in human interpretation of divine wisdom......and, how can that be accurate?

some people, when experiencing the world, (however that takes place), choose to attribute certain things to a god, or gods.......
We see the universe, solely, through our own eyes........so, if it's real to anyone, it's real, to them........
the problems, IMHO, are when they try to tell me that their perception is what I need, and, their thoughts should be mine........

*wondering where that just came from.....*
Everything is interpreted by the human mind. However religion is a 'concept' which is, I believe by definition, totally an invention of the mind, no? How can a concept exist if it isn't born from a thought?

And yes, a person's perception is their reality; it is only the accepted 'norm' of the society that labels psychotic reality insane fantasy and religious reality, well 'real?'.

I think that is why people don't like proselytizing--it conflicts with their belief in their own personal fantasy world (or lack there of).

JK

what you say, I agree with.
I think, though, I wasn't clear about my premise.

I meant, that, if you believe in the "HairyThunderer, Cosmic Muffin", and thusly believe in their existence and, "words, rules, proclamations, etc"......then, you accept that they were "interpreted" by people, for you to read.........Unless you hear them speak directly to you.........
Kind of like:
if someone was sitting on a mountain, and, "God" spoke to them, and, they wrote it for others to read, you are accepting that persons interpretation of divine wisdom and communication. Trusting them to write it verbatim, and, not transpose "should" with "can" or the like.....