Increase in new burners with 'entitlement' issues

veleda
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Increase in new burners with 'entitlement' issues

Post by veleda » Mon May 10, 2010 3:49 pm

Is it just me or are there more and more people expecting more and more from theme camps as if its a service being provided as oppossed to a joint labor of love!

We've had people ask whether we provide TENTS and BEDDING. I'm like R U FUCKING SERIOUS?

It's fucking burning man. Join a camp because you like the theme, and want to participate in creating community and making stuff happen. Pool your resources (called camp dues) and see what you can do.

Theme Camps are not 'Providers'. They are collectives of people that like to do cool shit on the playa.

Anyhow. Rant over.

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Post by ygmir » Mon May 10, 2010 4:03 pm

..................
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Token
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Post by Token » Mon May 10, 2010 4:12 pm

Funny you should bring this up.

You village provides everything but the tent and bedding.

Meal plan, showers, shade, etc.

It was just a matter of time.

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Post by veleda » Mon May 10, 2010 4:42 pm

groups get together in the village and co-create the showers, meals, art, etc.

We try to create a space for people to find the things they love doing and do them.

i.e. if someone is an artist we ask them to create art instead of build a shower. That still doesn't mean they don't pull their weight in terms of setup/strike, meal cooking/cleanup, etc.

I don't consider us a provider by any means. We just happen to have some really passionate people in our village that like to do big things..cook for lots..have lots of events..etc... share community internationally.. make art..etc.. I like the fact that we're open and that we bring together a really diverse group of international spiritually minded folks for the burn every year.

We've grown to accommodate that.. ya but i don't always feel our screening process is the best and we always get some non-contributors. There is no way to know the first time they participate.

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Post by veleda » Mon May 10, 2010 4:52 pm

We have people write us a letter on why they want to participate, what they like about village, and how they intend to contribute.

How do you screen people?

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Post by AntiM » Mon May 10, 2010 5:05 pm

I occasionally see posts from newbs asking how to join camps, as if they are afraid or unwilling to camp in the dust, make their own shade, figure out how to shower, how to feed themselves. Not that they shouldn't ask to join a theme camp if it sounds like a good fit and a wonderful way to participate, but yes, I do get the "take care of me" vibe from a few.

Not so much this year, there seem to be a lot of go getters on eplaya this time around.

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Post by veleda » Mon May 10, 2010 5:12 pm

Thats good.

We had issues last year with some of new peeps not staying for strike. :(

Our village really supports radical inclusion but I was like.. really?

I was wondering how other theme camps that bring together strangers on the playa to create new communities foster participation and co-ownership?

We offer healing services usually 14 hours a day every day so lots of people that camp with us are massage therapists, etc and are offering their healing services.. which is great and we wouldn't be able to have a healing sanctuary that offers so much without them but that doesn't mean that you don't have to strike as well.

build & strike are for all.

We were clear in all our pre-burn discussions but we still encountered problems on the playa.

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Post by AntiM » Mon May 10, 2010 5:26 pm

Even our tiny camp has misunderstandings, usually not among the core members, but with friends of friends who don't get the camp dynamic. I've gotten to be a real bitch about who camps with or near us. Stay the fuck out of my personal cooler, don't wander off to see what's on the horizon before camp is up and then expect to hog the cot in the shade, what the hell are you smoking in our shade structure, that sort of thing. I may be the camp's weak link physically, but I'm the mean one. Someone has to be Head Bitch.

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Post by FIGJAM » Mon May 10, 2010 5:29 pm

50,000 self reliant people is one of the things that draw me to bm. I seem to meet nothing but the other sort in defaultia. I dont think bm will disapoint me........
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Post by curiousgnate » Mon May 10, 2010 9:01 pm

We always have newbies and usually a lot of them. some participate some don't. there are usually a few that try and take advantage, what we do is have a group meet n greet usually about 80 people. we then discuss the ways that everyone needs to help in order for our camp to run successfully. We discuss personal footprint moop, group shade moop, potential moop, any and every kind of moop. We also discuss no means no, and unwanted advances, personal space, and respect for each other and the playa. We don't however require people to help with set up or tear down. that is because we are all individually responsible for what is set up and torn down. Motz one of our fearless leaders has made a wonderful giant group shade, those of us available and willing help to set this up and tear it down. we have purely voluntary events on tues and thurs night. last year tacos, this year grilled cheeses, and funk from our wondeful TJ who has a vehicle called Dolly, which plays music and has lights etc. We also have a camp greeting on wed morning each year from 8-12. again purely voluntary. We have found that by having few expectations we are not nearly as disappointed as we would be otherwise. I for one leave sunday morning due to school and work reasons. so I can't help tear down, so I help in many other ways throughout the week. Inevitably we do have a few people who don't help out at all. We in our own way make it apparent that we are not to happy with them, but we also expect this, are prepared for it, and try not to judge these people too harshly. there are people out there that just don't get it and there always will be. Maybe they will learn to not be that way but maybe not, that is all on their plate not ours!
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Post by curiousgnate » Mon May 10, 2010 9:08 pm

oh yeah that rant went on sorry if you got bored, as to the newbies picking and choosing, we need a shower we need vegan food, we need blah blah blah. it does seem to be a bit much. we have had some check out our camp and we thell them that if they are worried about getting showers then camp somewhere else, don't go to bm, or bring their own with gray water collection. this usually scares them away.
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Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue May 11, 2010 12:05 am

How do you screen people?

we use a combination of waterboarding and electric nipple clamps.
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Post by AntiM » Tue May 11, 2010 2:04 am

curiousgnate wrote:oh yeah that rant went on sorry if you got bored, as to the newbies picking and choosing, we need a shower we need vegan food, we need blah blah blah. it does seem to be a bit much. we have had some check out our camp and we thell them that if they are worried about getting showers then camp somewhere else, don't go to bm, or bring their own with gray water collection. this usually scares them away.
You're more like a village, such as Hushville, than a centrally-located theme camp with a lot of participants coming for activities and visiting your spaces. I know it doesn't matter, any camp of any size can have requirements and rules for members. If breakdown is part of the deal, then that should be honored.

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Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue May 11, 2010 6:17 am

These issues are part of what led to the demise of my original camp, Johnny & the Playa Cruizers Chassis Lube and Body Shop.
In '04 we were at about 100 members, the majority of whom I didn't even know and didn't do anything to justify their "squatting".

I have noticed the average post from a newcomer is something like "I'm a first-timer and I'm looking for a theme camp to join" as if it's either required or because they want their infrastructure taken care of by other people.
In my way of thinking, that isn't how it's done. You either join up with friends and camp together on the playa, or you just go to BRC, see what's there and make friends, then maybe camp with them next time.
You don't just sign up like it was a motel.
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Post by ygmir » Tue May 11, 2010 6:18 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:
How do you screen people?

we use a combination of waterboarding and electric nipple clamps.
I thought those were perks?.........
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Post by Sham » Tue May 11, 2010 6:56 am

Simon of the Playa wrote: we use a combination of waterboarding and electric nipple clamps.
Can I join your camp Simon?

In all fairness to many first timers, without knowing the lay of the land and how things are set up, it's easy to think you must be part of a camp and they don't know how to go about finding one. I have seen posts of people wanted to go in someone's RV with the same confusion.

A few years back, I had to leave the event. Upon returning without any supplies in my car, I told the greeter that I may be lost and I was looking for a Holiday Inn. We both that the same blank look on our faces! :roll:

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Post by lambert13 » Tue May 11, 2010 6:57 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:
I have noticed the average post from a newcomer is something like "I'm a first-timer and I'm looking for a theme camp to join" as if it's either required or because they want their infrastructure taken care of by other people.
In my way of thinking, that isn't how it's done. You either join up with friends and camp together on the playa, or you just go to BRC, see what's there and make friends, then maybe camp with them next time.
You don't just sign up like it was a motel.
My Father and I are making 2011 our first time at BM. My philosophy is that I want to do everything on our own and be entirely responsible for our survival and comfort. Shade, food, water, etc. are going to be provided by us. One of the things that is drawing me to BM is the survival aspect and making our way in a harsh environment. I am digging the challenge of it.

If I happen to meet people out there that I click with I would be open to seeing what happens in following years, but I would not want to make any commitments to people I do not know. I would only want to join a camp/village if I thought I could add something. Not just because of what they could offer me.

If anything, I would be the type to start a camp rather than join an existing one. To me, that is what BM is about. Creating something for the greater good and for the enjoyment of others. My Father and I decided early on that we want to add as much as we can to Black Rock City. Driving from New York with all our gear will be a challenge for sure, but that will be part of the fun and adventure as well.
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Post by veleda » Tue May 11, 2010 7:19 am

Lambert

That is why I started my own theme camp four years ago. I was sitting on the playa and was wanting to get more involved in 'making' burning man and a friend said.. do what you love.

My camp the following year was 10, the year after 30, the year after 80, the year after 110, this year likely 150 though I will never go greater than that.

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Post by AntiM » Tue May 11, 2010 7:52 am

We went without the expectation of being in a camp. I'd read about Hushville, their first year also. It was simply knowing we had a place to say was home. Hushville provides nothing but an address and amazing neighbors. Some years we have more in the way of infrastructure and activities and interactive camps, some years we have less. These days Hushville requires preregistration, and is still first come first served on the playa. We manage to pack between two hundred and three hundred people in a double-wide half block ... the year of Hushville Calcutta was what led to the registration requirement! Still, we do provide a way to dip in a toe for newbs, they must be self-reliant, but they're in a neighborhood to catch them when they fall.

That said, all you newbs, Hushville won't cater to your needs. We just won't let you die.

Actually, we went knowing nothing but what was in the survival guide and Triple A magazine! No regionals, knew no burners, not even on the eplaya. Nothing but that we were going to this thing in the desert.

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Post by Dr. Pyro » Tue May 11, 2010 8:17 am

AntiM, that's the difference between Hushville and Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro: Not only will we not cater to your every whim, but we will let you die if you act like a sparkle pony. We are, after all, a death camp.

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Post by AntiM » Tue May 11, 2010 9:04 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:AntiM, that's the difference between Hushville and Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro: Not only will we not cater to your every whim, but we will let you die if you act like a sparkle pony. We are, after all, a death camp.
Oh, hush up and rub my feet.

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Post by Dr. Pyro » Tue May 11, 2010 9:06 am

yes dear

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Post by MisaBlue » Tue May 11, 2010 9:24 am

I had to do research on what is sparkle pony and I really love what pop out on the web :D


as seen on www.urbandictionary.com

1. Sparkle Pony

A guy or girl you use for fun, but are not serious about. You keep them around because they make you feel good about yourself. It could be for one night, or for brief periods of time. Kind of like a "pool boy".
She is sad from the breakup, we need to find her a sparkle pony to cheer her up.
sparkle pony one-night stand pool boy hooking up
by Sophia E. Feb 25, 2008 share this

2. Sparkle Pony

buy sparkle pony mugs, tshirts and magnets
A high maintenance person at the Burning Man Festival who is unprepared for the harsh camping environment and becomes a burden to their camp-mates.
Burner #1: "Can you believe that Sparkle Pony over there brought 60 costumes but only 2 gallons of water and some ramen noodles?"

Burner#2: "Yeah. They asked me where the food court was located."

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Re: Increase in new burners with 'entitlement' issues

Post by ZaphodBurner » Tue May 11, 2010 11:03 am

veleda wrote:Is it just me or are there more and more people expecting more and more from theme camps as if its a service being provided as oppossed to a joint labor of love!

We've had people ask whether we provide TENTS and BEDDING. I'm like R U FUCKING SERIOUS?
We picked up some refugees from a camp that decided to provide meals, bikes and costumes as well.

It's highly possible that enthusiastic newcomers are encountering that sort of thing through Tribe or wherever and assuming that's normal.

Camp organizers should make sure to remind their campmates to be prepared to survive solely on what they bring in with them.

"Joey will bring the food, Jill will bring the generator and Kojak-Whatever-His-Name-Is said he'll bring all the fuel and water we'll need when he arrives on Wednesday..."
"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

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Post by veleda » Tue May 11, 2010 11:14 am

@Zaphod

Ya. I always tell people. We're all doing our best..but if Joe's car breaks down and the XYZ doesn't show up. Be prepared to wing it. ;)

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Post by veleda » Tue May 11, 2010 11:15 am

@Zaphod

Wait did you say provided costumes??

OMG. That was so outrageous..my mind first skipped over it.

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Post by ZaphodBurner » Tue May 11, 2010 6:03 pm

veleda wrote:@Zaphod

Wait did you say provided costumes??

OMG. That was so outrageous..my mind first skipped over it.
Not even exaggerating.

On the aviation board it's common for people to request flights to Black Rock City, noting that all of their stuff is being hauled in for them and they just need a ride to the playa. Most notable, probably, was Joan Baez in 2005... well, she didn't actually compose the request herself. Somebody did it for her.
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Post by theCryptofishist » Tue May 11, 2010 6:45 pm

curiousgnate wrote:We also discuss no means no, and unwanted advances, personal space, and respect for each other...
Yeah!
*does the B.E.D. happy dance*

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Post by leydar » Thu May 27, 2010 4:53 am

Personally I'm finding that you have to research each group individually and find out what is involved in being involved :) Some groups have a lot of available information online, others are just groups of friends that give it a name/theme. I would have no problem with first timers asking what the camp provides rather than making assumptions.

A simple response can be to return the question. Then add that participant's answer to the list of the camp's available provisions. The camp provides for itself. There is no separate entity called "the camp", you are the camp ... BAAAAAD camp!! There be no shelter here :D

Stephen

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Post by scotto » Thu May 27, 2010 6:47 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
curiousgnate wrote:
Do you take the B.E.D. Challenge?
http://www.bureauoferoticdiscourse.org/
Burning Man is a Participatory Sport! Lead by Example!

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