Gay Gloryhole Theme Camp for "Straight" men

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:40 am

[quote="Eric"][quote="graidawg"][quote="delle"]What a fascinating thread to wander into todayâ€¦.

One thing Iâ€™ve found in my life is that certain things ring true to me at first mention, and I tend to adopt them as unflappable, non-negotiable realities for myself. One of those things was the Kinsey Report, purporting that the vast majority of people will naturally have at the very least a curiosity for sex outside of the heterosexual â€œnormâ€

alt12 · Post by **alt12** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:55 pm

Zachwilliams wrote:Seems as though I have triggered some of you, I am sorry that my thoughts, ideas, turn ons, or lifestyle makes some of you sad, hurt , angry, and opinionated.
Since most of the more opiniated posts come from what appear to be gay men, I 'll just attribute it to reverse racism. Coming from a small western town where being Queer or Gay was a one way ticket to a beating, I am ammused at your tolerance...
Although most the posts are s%6& I do believe that this bi-sexual closeted gay straight man that likes men, women and transexuals does appreciate your humor, and thoughts. Otherwise thanks to those like Curiousgnate, MCPajammaPants, and others whom have been more considerate with their comments and support.
The down low sounds fun, where was it located, I went to Comfort and Joy almost every night, sat around the fire, but unfortunately I am so closeted (therapy helps but 46yrs create strong nueropathways), I damn near need to be raped to make a move.

I think you'll find there is as much intolerance, judgement, prejudice, among gay men as among straight men. Just like with most people, there is a strong need to put you in a box that they can understand and/or feel safe with.

Good luck with whatever you are doing. There are many different ways to make your way sexually in this world and I don't think anyone has the right answer. Frankly, anyone's demands that you MUST be a certain way says much more about them than it does about you.

Simon of the Playa · Post by **Simon of the Playa** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:08 am

"so, you suck a couple of dicks and all of a sudden you're a Faggot?"

L. P*rtic*ne, overheard at a Bar trying to explain the early eighties when he was a hair-dresser and avid roller-blader.

Strata · Post by **Strata** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:51 am

"...and I have repaired many brick buildings, but do they call me Antoine the mason? and I have caught many fish, but do they call me Antoine the fisherman? But *fuck ONE sheep*...."

[Srsly great thread-- kudos to all the contributors, and rock on and hugz to Zach; hope he finds what he's looking for on-playa this year. ]

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:37 am

It was a FEMALE sheep you guys, that's different!

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:49 pm

Yes, Dougly, we believe ewe.

Noremac.Samoth · Post by **Noremac.Samoth** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:00 pm

wow! i must say this is an amazing thread. so im 24 and i am gay. now i know we have all grown up at different times and in different ways (i.e. socially economically ect ect ect blah blah blah blah) so i dont want to step on any toes. reading through this thread i see there are gay men of all ages responding and with all do respect to my brothers that have came before me...give the guy (the author of this post) a break! who knows what part of his life keeps him from being able to explore his gay fantasies in the real world, but sadly enuff that happens. to all of us in different ways. i for one am gay like i already said, but have fantized about woman before, now why havent i acted on it? well becuz my life is that of a gay mans, i have been living the life style for 10 years now? and to just stop and take a break and go get with a woman, though acceptable and ok, would with out a doubt throw a wrench in my personal life and socail life too. now that being said im sure the same is true in reverse for straight men, who may be curious.

i think we need to get back to the main topic. how does he get a gay hook up on the playa?! isnt burning man about trying new things and casting off the opression of real life? i could be wrong, ok well ive never been, this is my first year, so i turn it back to the pro burners?!

i will say that from what others have told me and what just makes common sense...is that desperate is still desperate on the playa. and the rules of attraction still apply. be friendly warm and charming, confidence is a must, and if all else fails try honosty. maybe a tshirt that says "im a staright man looking for my first gay experiance" would help. if i know gay men....which i think i do, at least i hope....then im sure the thought of being with a straight man is one most gay men would be up for. usually.

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:11 pm

Noremac.Samoth wrote: i for one am gay like i already said, but have fantized about woman before, now why havent i acted on it? well becuz my life is that of a gay mans, i have been living the life style for 10 years now? and to just stop and take a break and go get with a woman, though acceptable and ok, would with out a doubt throw a wrench in my personal life and socail life too. now that being said im sure the same is true in reverse for straight men, who may be curious.

This is about the most bizarre reason for a gay man not having having sex with a woman that I have ever heard. Are you sure you're not just flattering yourself by hanging on to the belief that you might still be attracted to women when in fact you're not?

Noremac.Samoth · Post by **Noremac.Samoth** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:29 pm

jkisha: no i am gay and love being with men sexually and emotionally. i have found some woman i meet in my life attractive, to what extent i dont know because i choose not to explore it because of other situations in my life. for example my close personal female friends that i consider to be sisters, that are my best friends... how would they take it? i love them they love me, but what has allowed that love to grow and that bond to form at first was the fact that i was gay. now here several years later i out of the blue start screwing around with girls, it would cause a drama and a situation that i know is not worth dealing with. I have been with a woman in high school, did all that enjoyed it then, but once i discovered my sexual side with men i realized i much more prefered it, so now at 24 when i see a woman i find attractive sexually, which is very very rare, (no offense to the ladies love you all) i choose to not act on it, in order to avoid all the chaos that would be caused by that. i know that i am happy and satisfied by men, and therefore see no reason to further explore woman. i also know that i would like to spend the rest of my life with a man and hopefully get to raise a family, a dream that i freely share and talk about with anybody, even people in the real world. i have no issues about being gay, and if i really felt i had to be with a woman to be happy i would have no issue letting the whole world know that too. so sorry you misunderstood me, and my attempt to give someone some actual help/advice on this website, instead of just more snark. have a nice day.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:42 pm

Noremac.Samoth wrote:...a dream that i freely share and talk about with anybody, even people in the real world.

Hee-hee! Yeah, my relationships don't take place in the real world either.

Your point is well-taken, and I would have made it myself: sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:45 pm

And of course we all know it IS ALL ABOUT THE SAUCE!

Post by **Elderberry** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:48 pm

Noremac.Samoth wrote:jkisha: no i am gay and love being with men sexually and emotionally. i have found some woman i meet in my life attractive, to what extent i dont know because i choose not to explore it because of other situations in my life. for example my close personal female friends that i consider to be sisters, that are my best friends... how would they take it? i love them they love me, but what has allowed that love to grow and that bond to form at first was the fact that i was gay. now here several years later i out of the blue start screwing around with girls, it would cause a drama and a situation that i know is not worth dealing with. I have been with a woman in high school, did all that enjoyed it then, but once i discovered my sexual side with men i realized i much more prefered it, so now at 24 when i see a woman i find attractive sexually, which is very very rare, (no offense to the ladies love you all) i choose to not act on it, in order to avoid all the chaos that would be caused by that. i know that i am happy and satisfied by men, and therefore see no reason to further explore woman. i also know that i would like to spend the rest of my life with a man and hopefully get to raise a family, a dream that i freely share and talk about with anybody, even people in the real world. i have no issues about being gay, and if i really felt i had to be with a woman to be happy i would have no issue letting the whole world know that too. so sorry you misunderstood me, and my attempt to give someone some actual help/advice on this website, instead of just more snark. have a nice day.

Thanks for that long and totally unnecessary explanation. A better reply would have just been " Thanks for your analysis Dr. Freud. Now fuck off."

Noremac.Samoth · Post by **Noremac.Samoth** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:24 pm

i think your being unnesacary, and give BM and the eplaya a very negitive energy. i hope the people i meet this year are more welcoming and less judgemental then you. maybe you just need a hug. peace.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:29 am

What is the carbon cost of negative energy?

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:35 am

theCryptofishist wrote:What is the carbon cost of negative energy?

I paid for offsets, so I don't have to worry.

Post by **Elderberry** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:38 am

Noremac.Samoth wrote:i think your being unnesacary, and give BM and the eplaya a very negitive energy. i hope the people i meet this year are more welcoming and less judgemental then you. maybe you just need a hug. peace.

I'm not big on hugs, but then again, you're not big on sense of humor; so I guess we're even.

So, it's settled I'm bringing negative energy to the playa, what exactly will you be contributing?

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:45 pm

maybe you just need a hug. peace

Statistically, the number one reason some people punch other people in the throat.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:32 pm

I just had an epiphany! Gloryholes are kinda weird when you think about it.

What's wrong with makin' out and mutually satisfying one another face-to-face?

Believe me when it comes to fetish,,,,,, ME TOO! but But BUT I like it real and warm and wetttttt. That's all I'm gonna say.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:30 pm

Maybe when you think about it.

Don't go scooping the rest of us non-respondents up into your idea of normalcy.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:01 pm

Trishntek wrote:I just had an epiphany! Gloryholes are kinda weird when I think about it.

What's wrong with makin' out and mutually satisfying one another face-to-face?

Believe me when it comes to fetish,,,,,, ME TOO! but But BUT I like it real and warm and wetttttt. That's all I'm gonna say.

Okay then!

Zode · Post by **Zode** » Tue May 03, 2011 3:57 am

To the OP:

Step 1) Ditch your group of friends who claim to be "really straight". If they're going to judge you for enjoying penis, they don't sound like very high-caliber people.

Hopefully you find what you're looking for out on the playa, foremost being acceptance of yourself.

Mojori · Post by **Mojori** » Sun May 08, 2011 1:58 am

Zachwilliams wrote:Hey there fellow burners....I am a "straight" man that would love to have lots of gay sex throughout the burn. . . .

Hey Zach, I think you're awesome. I encourage you to come to the Playa and explore man with man sex with the a total sense of celebration and joie de vivre. The way in which, or whether, you label yourself is purely your decision and yours alone. Please don't let the haters pull your spirit down. Burning Man is a place of freedom and exploration. I think the way you manifest that is perfectly valid.

soupman · Post by **soupman** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:10 pm

Mojori wrote:
Zachwilliams wrote:Hey there fellow burners....I am a "straight" man that would love to have lots of gay sex throughout the burn. . . .
Hey Zach, I think you're awesome. I encourage you to come to the Playa and explore man with man sex with the a total sense of celebration and joie de vivre. The way in which, or whether, you label yourself is purely your decision and yours alone. Please don't let the haters pull your spirit down. Burning Man is a place of freedom and exploration. I think the way you manifest that is perfectly valid.

What Mojori said.

The great thing about Burning Man is that you can feel SO much less self-conscious about yourself and your desires than in the "real world". As someone who is gay, came from a small town and had to battle through bigotry and oppression (both self-imposed and from the outside), and now has a husband AND a ton of straight friends, I can understand how daunting it can be to suddenly "switch" and present yourself as something "different" than the friends in your camp. That being said- if you're not comfortable identifying as "gay" or "bi" or whatever the fuck, you shouldn't have to. Coming out is *kind* of a big deal and you have to do it when you're ready for it. Like some of these other guys said, you should feel free to explore your sexuality in an open, healthy and honest way, instead of feeling like you have to sneak around. If you feel those straight members of your camp will not be accepting of your desires or feel threatened by your actions (and why should they, but people are idiots sometimes), then yeah. You should look at joining a different camp.

Sometimes getting laid, just like coming out, requires a little courage and upfront honesty. Next time you're at Comfort and Joy, or at some gay-friendly camp, feel free to simply strike up conversation. Make yourself feel comfortable in your own surroundings and with the people you're around and most likely it will happen. And you'll probably meet a ton of great people who will make you feel welcome in your own skin. Chances are one or two of those people sitting around that fire were thinking about putting it in you anyways hehe...

And I will say that anonymous sex is great, but it's even better with someone you trust and vibe with. Meet somebody you're attracted to, tell them you're green to the scene and looking for some help and I have a feeling you'll have NO problem having the experience you are looking for. Much better than a glory hole. (uh... so I've heard.)

And post some NOODS already, damn! I want to know if I should try to have lots of gay sex with you.

bobbybill1973 · Post by **bobbybill1973** » Sat May 21, 2011 8:43 pm

Oh my goodness. how did you miss the "Down Low Club"?
24/7 non-stop anonymous sex in that army tent. It was even air conditioned in the daytime. I must have visited 4-5 times each day and had my pick of men. Not to be missed!

matt_fisher · Post by **matt_fisher** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:01 pm

[i]The down low sounds fun, where was it located, I went to Comfort and Joy almost every night, sat around the fire, but unfortunately I am so closeted (therapy helps but 46yrs create strong nueropathways), I damn near need to be raped to make a move.[/i]

First off, +1 to what soupman said.

I'm a gay Comfort & Joy camper, and here's my two cents.

Especially if you're not out among friends at home, initiating sex with a guy can be a little intimidating on the playa, where we all sort of think that sex is supposed to be easy and without any hassle. LOL.

The thing is, even in the dirtiest, raunchiest sex clubs, sex rarely happens between men without some kind of conversation to initiate it. OK, glory holes are probably the exception. That conversation can be entirely nonverbal of course, but a conversation nonetheless. When I was first navigating my gay world, figuring out how to have that conversation took some getting used to; after all, you don't really have much practice that carries over if you're used to flirting with women.

Putting on my pop psychology hat, it sounds to me like you're looking for glory holes and darkrooms because to you it's less intimidating/confusing then striking up a conversation that would lead to sex with a guy.

You know what? Most gay men have felt exactly the same way about it. :) Gay places everywhere are completely packed full of men who are unsure how to talk to other men into/about sex. ;)

So, here's my advice:

-Don't ever feel ashamed (especially on the playa!) to mention that you're not out of the closet at home or in camp. Especially if you happen to be chatting with somebody at a camp like Comfort & Joy, which tries to uphold the idea of 'radical inclusion.' People work through their sexual identity in highly personal ways that don't need to be justified to anybody else. Saying something like "I'm new to all this" is pretty standard gay code for "I'm not out and I'm not sure how to proceed."

-Don't assume that people know why you're hanging around in that gay camp, least of all the gay men that are there. Burners are plenty comfortable about lots of things, and while people may suspect you're a straight guy on the down low, they're not going to assume that you're automatically looking to fool around with somebody. You might think you're being really obvious about it, but remember: guys are thickheaded. We are.

-Take a little time to learn the language. It's a combination of talking, listening, touching, and body language. Next time you're around the fire or in the big tent, make a project out of watching the way folks initiate sex.

-Practice flirting with guys on the playa. In the gay camps you have absolutely nothing to lose. Here's a hint: in guy-talk, flirting is pretty much as easy as "You're a really handsome guy." We don't require much. If he says something like "Thanks, so are you" then you're getting somewhere.

-If you're talking to a guy you'd like to get naked with, and don't know what to say, you can say exactly that. Try something like "I'm not very experienced hitting on guys, so I don't really know what to say if I'm attracted to a guy and want to have sexâ€¦" and see where that goes.

-Hang out in a play space and feel free to sit down, watch what's going on, and relax. People are more likely to approach somebody who's relaxed.

-Go to the various workshops, classes, events and parties that the gay camps put on where people will be talking about sex and/or turning you on. Comfort & Joy will again have several sex/touch/sexuality-themed workshops this year. The Astropups will probably again have naked partner showers, and with this year's theme I have to imagine that coming out will be a recurring theme throughout BRC's gayborhood.

-Most importantly, IMO, give yourself a chance to have a serious heart to heart about where you want to be sexually. If Burning Man is your yearly vacation from your straight life, well then that's something to look forward to, for sure. BUT, it could also be a trigger that ends up making the rest of your year more happy and fulfilling. Rites of Passage indeedâ€¦.

;)

delle · Post by **delle** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:43 pm

That was sweet Matt. I sure hope he's still reading this.

I'd just been thinking that saying something like "This is my first time and don't really know what to do --- can you help me?" might be not only be a good start, but perhaps even be quite appealing to some!!!

....and the "can you help me" part would open the door for the guy you're with to make introductions, if he's not interested himself.

matt_fisher · Post by **matt_fisher** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:58 pm

You know, I kind of wonder whether Zach is the guy who I remember hanging out at C&J last year who gave off a kind of 'closeted guy' vibe.

The guy I recall was quite handsome and sociable, and you definitely got the idea that he was sorting through things in his head while we was there, but from what I could tell, sex wasn't on his agenda. Of course, it could have just been nerves.

Zach may not be tracking this thread anymore, but I think lots of people are in his shoes, especially if they see Burning Man as a safe space to express stuff they can't at home...

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:47 pm

matt_fisher wrote:The down low sounds fun, where was it located, I went to Comfort and Joy almost every night, sat around the fire, but unfortunately I am so closeted (therapy helps but 46yrs create strong nueropathways), I damn near need to be raped to make a move.

First off, +1 to what soupman said.

I'm a gay Comfort & Joy camper, and here's my two cents.

Especially if you're not out among friends at home, initiating sex with a guy can be a little intimidating on the playa, where we all sort of think that sex is supposed to be easy and without any hassle. LOL.

The thing is, even in the dirtiest, raunchiest sex clubs, sex rarely happens between men without some kind of conversation to initiate it. OK, glory holes are probably the exception. That conversation can be entirely nonverbal of course, but a conversation nonetheless. When I was first navigating my gay world, figuring out how to have that conversation took some getting used to; after all, you don't really have much practice that carries over if you're used to flirting with women.

Putting on my pop psychology hat, it sounds to me like you're looking for glory holes and darkrooms because to you it's less intimidating/confusing then striking up a conversation that would lead to sex with a guy.

You know what? Most gay men have felt exactly the same way about it. Gay places everywhere are completely packed full of men who are unsure how to talk to other men into/about sex.

So, here's my advice:

-Don't ever feel ashamed (especially on the playa!) to mention that you're not out of the closet at home or in camp. Especially if you happen to be chatting with somebody at a camp like Comfort & Joy, which tries to uphold the idea of 'radical inclusion.' People work through their sexual identity in highly personal ways that don't need to be justified to anybody else. Saying something like "I'm new to all this" is pretty standard gay code for "I'm not out and I'm not sure how to proceed."

-Don't assume that people know why you're hanging around in that gay camp, least of all the gay men that are there. Burners are plenty comfortable about lots of things, and while people may suspect you're a straight guy on the down low, they're not going to assume that you're automatically looking to fool around with somebody. You might think you're being really obvious about it, but remember: guys are thickheaded. We are.

-Take a little time to learn the language. It's a combination of talking, listening, touching, and body language. Next time you're around the fire or in the big tent, make a project out of watching the way folks initiate sex.

-Practice flirting with guys on the playa. In the gay camps you have absolutely nothing to lose. Here's a hint: in guy-talk, flirting is pretty much as easy as "You're a really handsome guy." We don't require much. If he says something like "Thanks, so are you" then you're getting somewhere.

-If you're talking to a guy you'd like to get naked with, and don't know what to say, you can say exactly that. Try something like "I'm not very experienced hitting on guys, so I don't really know what to say if I'm attracted to a guy and want to have sexâ€¦" and see where that goes.

-Hang out in a play space and feel free to sit down, watch what's going on, and relax. People are more likely to approach somebody who's relaxed.

-Go to the various workshops, classes, events and parties that the gay camps put on where people will be talking about sex and/or turning you on. Comfort & Joy will again have several sex/touch/sexuality-themed workshops this year. The Astropups will probably again have naked partner showers, and with this year's theme I have to imagine that coming out will be a recurring theme throughout BRC's gayborhood.

-Most importantly, IMO, give yourself a chance to have a serious heart to heart about where you want to be sexually. If Burning Man is your yearly vacation from your straight life, well then that's something to look forward to, for sure. BUT, it could also be a trigger that ends up making the rest of your year more happy and fulfilling. Rites of Passage indeedâ€¦.

+20

not being a gay guy but having been 'confused' for a while basically this approach worked for me when i wanted to try.
i can't really speak for gay but i did try it.and felt much better for it, i'm totally cofortable around gay guys as a result and feel much better in myself for being sure.
just saying ymmv

Zachwilliams · Post by **Zachwilliams** » Tue May 24, 2011 7:07 am

Hey all:

I have been following this thread through all it's twists and turns. Thank you all for your helpful and some not as helpful comments. It has been entertaining and informative. I hope that others have gained from this forum as well.

Matt, are you the guy I had a conversation with around the fire, and we had a good chuckle about when the lost traveler came to the fire and asked "where the bathroom was, and did not like my answer?

Noods, now would'nt that give this forum something to talk about. Hmmm.

Anyway, hope this note finds you all well. I look forward to reading more, very cathartic.
Z

matt_fisher · Post by **matt_fisher** » Tue May 24, 2011 5:16 pm

Matt, are you the guy I had a conversation with around the fire, and we had a good chuckle about when the lost traveler came to the fire and asked "where the bathroom was, and did not like my answer?

Honestly, I don't remember. Coulda been me. Some of the nights got a little, ahem, blurry.

In any case, come by and hang out with us this year...

Gay Gloryhole Theme Camp for "Straight" men

Re: Gay Gloryhole Theme Camp for "Straight" men

Re: Gay Gloryhole Theme Camp for "Straight" men

Thanks to all the support