Gay Gloryhole Theme Camp for "Straight" men

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:31 am

Trishntek wrote:
tiredofbeingnice wrote:It is enlivening to see such argument.

I have a question though... Once you come out of the closet.... can you go back in?
Coming out of the closet at Burning Man and finding your element on the Playa can change one's life.

But if there is any way to go back in, it would be upon the return to defaultia and putting your true self away until next year.

Unless the frustration of finding out your self, and then repressing it, is so traumatic that you don't make it back next - or any - year. That is fucking sad. Any time you hide who you are, you kill a little bit of yourself.

I did that for years, being in a str8 relationship... knowing I was a lez-been, with slight bisexual tendancies, but forcing myself to be someone I was not (Ms. Polly Anna Heterobread Housewife), to fit into the "angry masculiocentric culture" of my employer, and watching other gay women get discriminated against or worse.

Shedding, no, shitcanning the bullshit was prolly what saved my sanity AND my life.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:32 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:I have a simple - and maybe dumb - question...

Why do people consistantly lump gender identity and sexual preference together?

I mean, why can't a transguy be attrracted to another guy just as much as a transguy can be attracted to a woman?

Just curious, hoping someone can please explain this... (Not bi-curious, not trans-curious, not str8-curious... not even vice-curious, just curious-curious.)

Becuz... It always seemed to me, like, when people did that, it was similar to the stereotypes that gay men are always kid molesters or sheep-fuckers, and transfolk are drag queens in parades, and BDSM folks are repressed psychotics who are tied to sex, and lesbians are combat boot-and- flannel-wearing overweight butch women, and bi folk were all swingers and one stage short of poligimasts and poliandrists (but not necessarily podiatrists), ya get the idea...

ok added to my confusion there BBS more terms and things ididnt know Dammit!

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:34 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:I have a simple - and maybe dumb - question...

Why do people consistantly lump gender identity and sexual preference together?

I mean, why can't a transguy be attrracted to another guy just as much as a transguy can be attracted to a woman?

Just curious, hoping someone can please explain this... (Not bi-curious, not trans-curious, not str8-curious... not even vice-curious, just curious-curious.)

Becuz... It always seemed to me, like, when people did that, it was similar to the stereotypes that gay men are always kid molesters or sheep-fuckers, and transfolk are drag queens in parades, and BDSM folks are repressed psychotics who are tied to sex, and lesbians are combat boot-and- flannel-wearing overweight butch women, and bi folk were all swingers and one stage short of poligimasts and poliandrists (but not necessarily podiatrists), ya get the idea...

I agree, it's very confusing.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:39 am

graidawg wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote: one stage short of poligamists and poliandrists (but not necessarily podiatrists), ya get the idea...

ok added to my confusion there BBS more terms and things i didnt know Dammit!

Sorry - Men with more than one wife, and Women with more than one husband. Oh, crud, I spelled them wrong, Sorry.

And ya know... I forgot Vegisexuals in my list.... --grins--

(Tip o'the hat to Bill the Cat, noted Authority and Practicioner of Vegisexualism...)

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:43 am

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:
graidawg wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote: one stage short of poligamists and poliandrists (but not necessarily podiatrists), ya get the idea...

ok added to my confusion there BBS more terms and things i didnt know Dammit!
Sorry - Men with more than one wife, and Women with more than one husband. Oh, crud, I spelled them wrong, Sorry.

And ya know... I forgot Vegisexuals in my list.... --grins--

(Tip o'the hat to Bill the Cat, noted Authority and Practicioner of Vegisexualism...)

you are a cruel woman BBS. but i like you

Post by **Elderberry** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:50 am

tiredofbeingnice wrote:It is enlivening to see such argument.

I have a question though... Once you come out of the closet.... can you go back in?

Once you come out, why would you ever want to go back in?

This doesn't mean you can't be discrete about it. It just means you've stopped lying about it.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:54 am

I'm certainly NOT advising hiding who you are, or what you discover you are at an event like BM. I AM suggesting, in answer to the question, one can go back into the closet,,, please do not confuse that with "should".

Personally, I have discovered such freedom and acceptance. When my mother saw my painted toe nails and rings on my toes for the first time, she, being 86 years old said, ",,, so this is what men in California wear these days?" My response was,,, "not that I know of Mom,,,, just me." She simply does not care! I'm still her favorite and can do no wrong in her eyes,,,, works for me!

Professionally, there must be a certain decorum within the sensitivities of EOE and the mine field potential there. I have shared some things about BM and shown pics or shared ideas about well-endowed superheroes with some I work with,,,, but personal sexual conversations,,,, of any persuasion are not legally protected. Although, by innuendo of what our camp is about,,,, many I work with know, at least in part, where my proclivities dwell.

edit to add: It is anecdotal for sure, but I recently had some job issues which required involvement of the Board of Directors and my Medical Director. After the Board meeting ended, my MD and I had some issues which needed attention. During that time, on of the Board members, who I work with called to ask whether I had him tied to the chair and was whipping him. The MD answered in jest, "Ow! Ouch! Yeah he's holding the phone to my ear right now!" If they are cool about it, I have no reason for hiding who or what I am.

graidawg · Post by **graidawg** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:07 am

sometimes i feel sad i am about as vanilla as you can get sexually.
i've tried just about everything i have heard of it and just doesn't work for me.
I like one girl, who just wants me. I like missionary (or at least simliar)
in my endless quest to find a kink or perversion thats mine i found one thing out. if you're lieing about who you are you are going to make yourself and everyone who is important to you unhappy.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:15 am

graidawg wrote:sometimes i feel sad i am about as vanilla as you can get sexually.
i've tried just about everything i have heard of it and just doesn't work for me.
I like one girl, who just wants me. I like missionary (or at least simliar)
in my endless quest to find a kink or perversion thats mine i found one thing out. if you're lieing about who you are you are going to make yourself and everyone who is important to you unhappy.

So true! And on the other extreme you have posers who act a certain way among certain people. I never understood whether that was for acceptance? Or if they are in the midst of discovery? Or is there another less innocent reason to put on an "act"?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:32 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Trishntek wrote: So being of both groups, do I get half the chance? or double the chance? *scratching my head about all this pigeon-holing bullshit*
I'm guessing fanciers of amputees are fewer still. And you can get some specificity there, left arm only, for instance.
People do just fall in love, for no real reason that anyone else can see, regardless of whatever else might be going on. Sometimes you don't know what you're looking for until you find it.

I am not unaware that there is a possibility of having someone fall in love with me (you don't know how hard that was not to put in quotes) with my "altered" body status. However, I don't see much future in posting personal ads that read:

Looking for someone who thinks he could fall in love with a fat, hairy, silly, cranky, amputee.

If I market myself, I might as well go to someplace where one or another of those things is a positive.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:32 pm

Trishntek wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
Trishntek wrote: So being of both groups, do I get half the chance? or double the chance? *scratching my head about all this pigeon-holing bullshit*
I'm guessing fanciers of amputees are fewer still. And you can get some specificity there, left arm only, for instance.
Does that not fit into body modification? That's a kink too ya know,,,, in fact,,,, igotta admit,,,,, you did make my tummy tickle fishy,,,, like I said above,,,, I enjoy doing things with flesh,,,, the ummmm juxtaposition of specificity or specialty or gender-preference.

Okay. Not sure what to say, but um, will you be at the meet'n'greet?

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:34 pm

Eric wrote:I know way too much about gay sex on the playa for someone who chooses not to have sex out there.

Maybe we need to start a TMI Vacuum Camp: We Erase Your Playa Mistakes.
Or something.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:37 pm

graidawg wrote:i'm really confused now i always wondered why it was gay and lesbian. i thought gay was a polite or in vogue term for same sex preference. Now theres all these other terms being bandied around and im very confused.

When it comes to minority identities that are pejoritized (sp) it's very common to have terms shift. In my lifetime in the us the polite term for another minority group has gone from "negro" to "afro" to "black" to "african american." None of those is completely satisfactory, and I expect I'll see another shift or two in my lifetime.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:39 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:I have a simple - and maybe dumb - question...

Why do people consistantly lump gender identity and sexual preference together?

I mean, why can't a transguy be attrracted to another guy just as much as a transguy can be attracted to a woman?

Just curious, hoping someone can please explain this... (Not bi-curious, not trans-curious, not str8-curious... not even vice-curious, just curious-curious.)

Becuz... It always seemed to me, like, when people did that, it was similar to the stereotypes that gay men are always kid molesters or sheep-fuckers, and transfolk are drag queens in parades, and BDSM folks are repressed psychotics who are tied to sex, and lesbians are combat boot-and- flannel-wearing overweight butch women, and bi folk were all swingers and one stage short of poligimasts and poliandrists (but not necessarily podiatrists), ya get the idea...

I have what I hope is a simple answer. We have a very rigid defintion of what's "okay" gender and partnerwise, and anything that bucks it is "deviant" and all the "deviances" get lumped together.

Lassen Forge · Post by **Lassen Forge** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:11 pm

graidawg wrote:sometimes i feel sad i am about as vanilla as you can get sexually.
i've tried just about everything i have heard of it and just doesn't work for me.
I like one girl, who just wants me. I like missionary (or at least simliar)
in my endless quest to find a kink or perversion thats mine...

Heck, I think you found it!!! And there ain't nothing wrong with it... no more than men who love other men, or both men and women, or the occasional cauliflower, head of cabbage, and rare zucchini or turnip...

theCryptofishist wrote: I am not unaware that there is a possibility of having someone fall in love with me (you don't know how hard that was not to put in quotes) with my "altered" body status. However, I don't see much future in posting personal ads that read:
Looking for someone who thinks he could fall in love with a fat, hairy, silly, cranky, amputee.
If I market myself, I might as well go to someplace where one or another of those things is a positive.

How about...

At demand of Interrogatrix #4, Apokiliptik indentured scribe #3296b4a3 wrote: Brilliant, super-witty, strong-willed woman with many amazing life experiences, physically challenged but not out by a long shot, living the amazing life in the beautiful SF bay Area when not traipsing through the Desert, or planning world domination from the driver's seat...

Don't sell yourself short, hon. You may focus on what you percieve as negatives, but most of we that really DO know you know these are not negatives, but positives.

Know what picture I have of you that really kicks mondo ass? The one of you, in the chair, fist in the air, as if to say "Fuck you - it's my right and duty to not just survive, but to kick so me SERIOUS ass, and that is what I will do... you don't like it... tough shit, shinola!!!!!" (OK, I also like the one at the satr bar during the gummiworm eating contest, but I digress...)

Fuck, mama fishy... you got a whole fucking WORLD out there as your oyster bed... munch away!!!

)))))smooch((((((

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:35 pm

"Call any vegetable and the chances are good..........that the vegetable will respond to you."

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:39 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

MyDearFriend · Post by **MyDearFriend** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:46 pm

FIGJAM wrote:"Call any vegetable and the chances are good..........that the vegetable will respond to you."

Yep, yep, exactly.

Thanks for the song too, wow what a blast from the past!

MCPajammaPants · Post by **MCPajammaPants** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:06 pm

curiousgnate wrote:How about a glory hole for trolls where a fleshlight is used and right when they are about to cum they are stopped. a giant bright light goes on and camera flashes happen all around them.

Careful, I can be a little tricky knowing when some one is going to come with a fleshlight, for some folks it don't take much at all, a few years back there was a art piece with holes cut for you to stick your "heads" through & have your portrait taken. Me & my partner were behind it, "fluffing" me for a photo. When some fully erect guy appeared out of nowhere (probably hiding nearby some where just waiting for a op), stuck his cock through the hole. I heard some random passer-by on the other side remark "Wow is that a real cock?" apparently curiosity got the better of them & they had to investigate. "Oh . . . yep that's a real cock" All it took was an instant of touch from some random dude to get this guy off, & he shot his load all over the playa.

Creepiest moop ever. (except possibly that time I found a turd on the playa, did you know playa & sunlight will turn your poo totally black?)

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:23 pm

I think the TMI bar just got raised a couple of notches...

MCPajammaPants · Post by **MCPajammaPants** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:29 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Eric wrote:I know way too much about gay sex on the playa for someone who chooses not to have sex out there.
Maybe we need to start a TMI Vacuum Camp: We Erase Your Playa Mistakes.
Or something.

My campmates & I have been kicking around the idea of a "Playa Hymen-Restoration Station" I am so sick of all the jaded-ass playa old-timers bitching about "how it was better back then" *yawn* My new motto is "forever virgin"
Since this year is rites of passage, we need to develop some kind of ritual to wash away all past playa, mistakes, judgements, regrets, & jaded cynicism. So we all can enjoy the burn like it was our first one.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:37 pm

Great idea, MCPajammaPants!

theCryptofishist wrote:I think the TMI bar just got raised a couple of notches...

How about a Glory Hole for gay men that is in actuality *gasp* female?!

MCPajammaPants · Post by **MCPajammaPants** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:23 pm

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:10 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Trishntek wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote: I'm guessing fanciers of amputees are fewer still. And you can get some specificity there, left arm only, for instance.
Does that not fit into body modification? That's a kink too ya know,,,, in fact,,,, igotta admit,,,,, you did make my tummy tickle fishy,,,, like I said above,,,, I enjoy doing things with flesh,,,, the ummmm juxtaposition of specificity or specialty or gender-preference.
Okay. Not sure what to say, but um, will you be at the meet'n'greet?

NOTHING can stop me from being at the M&G this year! Maybe I'll bring some fun items with me

JStep · Post by **JStep** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:32 pm

What does it mean when you just don't really care? When you see being "out" as wearing your sex life on your sleeve? When you don't hide who you are cause you don't really care who knows what you do if they asked, but find it tacky to make what you enjoy in bed into a "lifestyle"? I don't tell people I don't know about my sex life, and at work it's completely inappropriate to discuss no matter WHAT orientation you are... I sometimes find myself baffled at our preoccupation with the labels and identities and lifestyle crafting.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:50 pm

You know, I'm not quite old enough to remember Stonewall, but it did happen when I was alive. I am old enough to remember Andrea Dworkin and Catherine whatsit whipping up a feminist frenzy about S&M and pornography in Minneapolis. I didn't directly experience the horrors of the AIDS epidemic, but I was in the Bay Area, and I remember a president that didn't mention the damn thing for years. Still a tad young to have really realized that Dan White decreased his jail time with his second murder at the time. My bisexual husband was sent to some sort of creepy deprogramming school by his parents. And the past few years have brought us "Mr. Wide Stance" and Reverend Haggarty of Jesus Camp, and Proposition fucking Eight is still the law in California...
Coming Out remains a profoundly political act to people whose sexualities do not fit the Leave it to Beaver preconceptions of how pairing off should happen. Being on the wrong side of the sexual divide can leave you very vulnerable indeed.
If you're not of a mind to discuss your sex life, then hey that's fine. If you are too afraid or too ashamed to be who you really are, then that's painful and horrible and diminishing of your personhood.

Post by **Eric** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:00 pm

Bay Bridge Sue wrote:I have a simple - and maybe dumb - question...

Why do people consistantly lump gender identity and sexual preference together?

I mean, why can't a transguy be attrracted to another guy just as much as a transguy can be attracted to a woman?

Just curious, hoping someone can please explain this... (Not bi-curious, not trans-curious, not str8-curious... not even vice-curious, just curious-curious.)

"Cisgender" people (non-transgendered people) have problems wrapping their heads around gender identity issues in so many ways; this is probably the most common one.

As I said earlier in this thread "identity" is the gender your brain identifies as, regardless of the body it resides in; "preference" is who you like to sleep with.

When your brain & your bits fall into a "normative" category (straight/ lesbian/ bi/ gay) everyone "gets" it. When your bits may not align with how you present yourself & identify people have huge issues (like when you act & present as a woman, but you have male bits). It falls outside of an easily understandable comfort zone, we have to think and have empathy to try to understand it, and even then we're on the outside looking in.

I'm lucky, my life is surrounded by people of all gender expressions and sexual persuasions, it's part of my normal daily life so it becomes just part of the scenery, for me. I do, however, have to watch friends struggle: a friend of mine is ftm/op (female to male/ original plumbing: ie, female bits down below) dating a gay man. They have a great relationship, but some of the boyfriends friends don't understand why he's dating a "woman". He's not, he's dating a person who's body may not conform to what they expect. They're not dating him, why is it an issue?

Bit wordy, but this is an issue I care about. Getting people to see the transgendered beyond the "freak factor" helps them get viewed as real living breathing people even outside of the safety of their friends. I know too many who've lost family/ friends/ jobs when they chose to be true to themselves.

Post by **Eric** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:19 pm

JStep wrote:What does it mean when you just don't really care? When you see being "out" as wearing your sex life on your sleeve?

I don't think you meant it this way, but to clarify: coming out isn't about who you have sex with, it's about who you love.

Imagine not being able to even mention to a co-worker that you're meeting your girlfriend for dinner after work, or when you're asked "what did you do this weekend" you have to hem & haw about going skiing with her. Imagine your family cutting your spouse off when you die because you're not entitled to a state-recognized marriage and you think you're too young to need a will (which happened to a friend).

Denying who you love cuts to the core of Who You Are. Turning "Who You Are" into "having sex in dark corners" degrades the person and creates all sorts of mental issues.

Being openly "gay" means I can mention John in normal speech and not have to pretend he's my "room-mate", not telling you what we did or didn't do in bed.

In all honestly, I think homophobes think more about what we do in bed then we do anyway. We're too busy living our lives.

Trishntek · Post by **Trishntek** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:58 pm

To be honest, "sex life" has little to do with my "lifestyle". In fact since Trish's illness, more than a year-old now,,, well I'm sure you understand. I know people who go on endlessly about their kids or boy scouts or classic car or racing in the Baja. How is that any different than me talking about what floats my boat, i.e. Burning Man? Or more specifically, my "lifestyle" of self-expression and self-reliance.

When I bring up the fact I have museum-quality pieces of antique sensual devices,,,, is that so much worse than listening to someone wax eloquent about their wine cellar? When somebody asks me what our theme for our BM camp is, I answer within the sensitivities of the person who asked,,,, but they always seem to want to know more,,,,, until they,,,,,,

or

or want to know more More MORE!

I have no chip on shoulder, ax to grind, statement to make or purpose to push. Interests, hobbies, activities and proclivities are what make us unique. Why should any of our individual properties be categorized and rated like a fictional motion picture? If we spend our lives denying our true selves, then we have not lived life as ourselves.

MCPajammaPants · Post by **MCPajammaPants** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:18 pm

Crypytofishist I agree with you 100%!

I know myself & a lot of other folks on the west coast too often take for granted living in relatively tolerant communities, where we enjoy "some" legal protection, & coming out is much easier.

Zach doesn't list where he's coming from, I guessing it's not a blue state.