About serving alchohol

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Trishntek
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Post by Trishntek » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:18 pm

We "share" high proof liquers for a couple of reasons. More alcohol in less volume; therefore, less weight to haul and less empty containers to haul out. Also, we go with stuff that is not found in most drinking establishments like: absinthe, chambord, limoncello, etc. because it gives our guests a chance to taste something they may have never had before. They are expensive, but when you consider bang for buck,,,, it's a wash.

We've not had the "problem" of anyone "over-indulging", but I would think someone who starts falling into your stuff and insensitive to how they are acting has probably had too much and needs some water. If they become unreasonable, hopefully they have a companion who will take responsibility for their wellbeing.

Also, we only "share" 10cc at a time. Depending on the distilled spirit in question, it would take anywhere from 2 to 5 of those to have an effect.
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Post by Mulligan » Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:38 am

Another joy of carding is if you don't like somebody in your camp, card them. If they're over 30, they're probably not gonna have their card on them. No card, no booze and they'll probably leave quickly thereafter.

If you work in certain industries, you may also want to check your default world work policies. I would get fired from my default job if I got busted for serving to anyone underage. At our camp (not a theme but we're pretty open about people dropping by) I will not offer you a beer. I will not hand you a beer. I will not risk losing my job.

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Post by skibear » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:05 pm

[quote="Trishntek"

We've not had the "problem" of anyone "over-indulging", but I would think someone who starts falling into your stuff and insensitive to how they are acting has probably had too much and needs some water.[/quote]

I over-indulged once on great home brewed beer served out of a coffin.
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Post by addison4 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:45 pm

What is the ideal legal set-up for avoiding/not paying fines?

Obviously if you don't even have an official camp they have no one to issue the fine to.

If you set up the camp under an LLC you could just declare bankruptcy/ stiff them and set up a new LLC next year.

The only point in being an official camp is to get put in the event book, have a vendor pass to skip the entrance lines, and be officially placed on the playa map.

Plus there is the added benefit of perhaps being able to buy insurance.

In theory you could have a well designed legal entity that was a bulletproof 1000 person camp.

Even if they shut down one of your camps you could switch the location of the party to a camp 20 feet away.

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Post by Eric » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:29 pm

addison4 wrote:What is the ideal legal set-up for avoiding/not paying fines?

Obviously if you don't even have an official camp they have no one to issue the fine to.
You as an individual can still be fined. Anyone giving booze to a minor can be fined- if you're hanging out in your shade structure & someone comes up asking for a beer & you give it to them- well... if they're a minor working with the LEO's, you get busted.

There is no "legal" set-up for not paying fines. If you just don't pay the fine (without fighting it in court) you probably end up with a warrant. They won't seek you out, but if you get a traffic stop or another interaction with the police in Nevada, it should pop up. Not sure if that's totally accurate with Nevada law, but I bet it's close.
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Post by Trishntek » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:59 pm

addison4 wrote:What is the ideal legal set-up for avoiding/not paying fines?

Obviously if you don't even have an official camp they have no one to issue the fine to.

If you set up the camp under an LLC you could just declare bankruptcy/ stiff them and set up a new LLC next year.

The only point in being an official camp is to get put in the event book, have a vendor pass to skip the entrance lines, and be officially placed on the playa map.

Plus there is the added benefit of perhaps being able to buy insurance.

In theory you could have a well designed legal entity that was a bulletproof 1000 person camp.

Even if they shut down one of your camps you could switch the location of the party to a camp 20 feet away.
Vendor pass? Not for a theme camp! Do you mean early entry? There is always an INDIVIDUAL who is responsible for the camp.

If it is possible to be an L.L.C. for theme camp organization,,,, have I missed something here? I've often wondered about being some kind of non profit org, but figured that was a no go.

I'm just curious where you are coming from with the "legal entity" idea.

It turns out that the bartender/bar from Filthy Gentleman's Club will be joining us for 2011. So I guess I have to backtrack on my previous post to say we will not rewash glasses, will dispense libations from original containers and bagged ice scooped with a dedicated scoop stored in a dedicated bowl.

We will also have two 18" X 24" signs indicating the following:
NO ONE UNDER 21 ALLOWED
I.D. REQUIRED
MINORS SHALL BE

EATEN!
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Post by Playa Mario » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:15 pm

No one under 21 is allowed to ride the ride. Must bring your own cup. Got cha. :wink:

Thank you all for your help. We aren't going to be an official theme camp yet but if any of you happen to see an arcade machine called "Super DUI Kart" out on the playa, stop by and play a round.

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Post by addison4 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:37 pm

If they are fining individuals then you can fight the fine with constitutional law. I bet you could work out a screening methodology where they would violate due process.

An even better method would be to issue the officers a $10,000+ billing schedule if they try to give you orders.

Most likely they will try to remove you from BM based on the idea that you waved all your rights at the gate. Make sure you protest claims such as this immediately.

The way the BM legal stuff is written it sounds like a fascist state; sad, but all of this is done for the single purpose of keeping BM itself from getting sued.

It's kind of silly that people are going around looking for minors doing booze when they're doing coke, shrooms, and LSD. Somehow I feel like this is a compromise that BM has purposefully take on.

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Post by Trishntek » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:20 pm

The only thing I understand about what you said is how ridiculous it is to spend time and effort preventing teens from drinking in the middle of a populated dry lake bed five miles from the nearest pavement. I wholeheartedly agree!

It's a good thing I have no hair on my head, cuz the rest of what you said flew over it so fast, it would have blown any hair off my pate! I do know we must abide by the laws of federal, state and county authorities.
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Post by Eric » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:26 pm

addison4 wrote:It's kind of silly that people are going around looking for minors doing booze when they're doing coke, shrooms, and LSD. Somehow I feel like this is a compromise that BM has purposefully take on.
This statement leads me to believe you've never actually been to the playa (that and your "how to fuck with The Man" attitude)

Nevada has extremely strong drug laws; they can and most definitely will bust you for any of the above, as well as pot, whippits and any other illegal substance. I know of a guy last year who took a hit off a whippit charger on the open playa & got a $1000 ticket.

It's not a fascist state (I really hate people who use that phrase to mean they can't do whatever they want whenever they want), it's part of the US & under the jurisdiction of all US and state laws.

As I've told other people, if you want to go somewhere free of laws & play, head to Somalia. There's no government there to boss you around.

If you get caught doing something illegal you've paid the Stupid Tax, you'll hear it referred to around the eplaya a lot in the coming months.
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Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:09 pm

Bravo, Eric!
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Post by TomServo » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:48 pm

Ditto!....people forget Nevada has the toughest substance laws around...and that, currently, their economy sucks....I imagine they might tap into the fines they can gather at Burning Man. Sure their bighting the hand...but they can.
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Post by Lassen Forge » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:40 am

Because people will keep coming back year after year...

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Post by Ugly Dougly » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:49 am

Eric wrote:I know of a guy last year who took a hit off a whippit charger on the open playa & got a $1000 ticket.
Ah, that ain't right...

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Post by addison4 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:11 am

Oh contraire, I am "the man" that I am.

It sounds like Eric is a virgin to the legal disclaimers which have reshaped Burning Man's policies over the last two decades. If he doesn't think they are consequential enough to refer to that PROVES my point that they are a double standard.

Additionally, Eric is equivocating the term "the man" in saying "Fuck the man attitude" There are three meanings that it could refer to: 1) Nevada Statutes, 2) the rules of burning man, or 3) the Individuals at burning man.

1) I've already protested that the rules of burning man are applied in a double standard. The legal language is very different than how the rules are enforced. Many of the rights supposedly waved at the gate can be retrieved in court.

2) Additionally I would like to protest double standards of the American legal system as a whole. Most of the substance acts in question rely on the 14th Amendment and thus only apply to a person's legal entity and not their lawful person.

3) Also I must clarify I have not challenged the decency of individuals of Burning Man, I have challenged policies. Eric's equivocation inferred that erroneous claim.

In conclusion we should acknowledge that several drug laws are ineffective and enforced erratically. The sheer mass of illegal drugs entering this country proves that double standards exists. Simply because Eric hasn't seen either the copious BM drugs or the double standards doesn't mean they don't exist!

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Post by FIGJAM » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:45 am

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Post by Eric » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:41 am

addison4 wrote:2) Additionally I would like to protest double standards of the American legal system as a whole. Most of the substance acts in question rely on the 14th Amendment and thus only apply to a person's legal entity and not their lawful person.
This is everything I needed to know. I'm not even going to bother.

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Post by Elderberry » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:05 pm

Eric wrote:
addison4 wrote:2) Additionally I would like to protest double standards of the American legal system as a whole. Most of the substance acts in question rely on the 14th Amendment and thus only apply to a person's legal entity and not their lawful person.
This is everything I needed to know. I'm not even going to bother.

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Here's a sign,,,

Post by Trishntek » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:23 pm

We will have one of these on each corner for our camp frontage to make sure there is certain understanding. They are 2'X4' so there is no missing them,,,, and they WILL be illuminated after dark!
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Post by International Incident » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:27 pm

“shakes headâ€

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Post by curiousgnate » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:25 pm

Card them no card no drink! I always carry a photocopy of my id so that i don't lose it or lose out on a yummy drinkie. As far as serving underage military folk. fuck that1 if they were stupid enough to get tricked into being willing to kill others in the name of our country (big business) thats too bad for them! I'm glad they came to burningman and hope that they can get their head unwrapped from all of the brainwashing they have undergone, not to mention the needless killing and wounding they have seen or caused. all in the name of corporate greed and a disgusting government that is not for the people or by the people in almost any way shape or form! prolly belongs in the politics section but whatever. In my opinion killing is wrong 99% of the time. few exceptions exist! Not since WW2 has there been a valid one in my mind. and yes i know im opening up a big can of worms, but really.
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Post by wraith » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:45 pm

Just remember, Nate, 75% of the military are just doing office jobs with a shitty physical fitness regimen and poor leadership in exchange for free medical care and a better retirement package than the rest of us get. :D

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Post by curiousgnate » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:50 pm

just remember that 100% chose to be there!
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Post by C.f.M. » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:52 am

Card them no card no drink!

That's going to be my policy.

I always carry a photocopy of my id so that i don't lose it or lose out on a yummy drinkie.

Me too. Not just for drinking, but in case something happens and my body needs to be identified. It's easy, takes up no room, weighs nothing.

if they were stupid enough to get tricked into being willing to kill others in the name of our country (big business) thats too bad for them! I'm glad they came to burningman and hope that they can get their head unwrapped from all of the brainwashing they have undergone, not to mention the needless killing and wounding they have seen or caused. all in the name of corporate greed and a disgusting government that is not for the people or by the people in almost any way shape or form!

That is just an insanely ignorant thing to say, for several reasons and on several levels. Though I may not agree with the two+ wars we're currently in, or think our government is anything more than greedy hypocrites, referring to the men and women serving as brainwashed and stupid belies a lack of information about the military and what service entails. They're not all over there with machine guns just opening fire when they get the urge. :roll:

Some of them may be "brainwashed," but so are a lot of hippies. Some of them maybe stupid but well...Eplaya has their fair share, too. Not just the military.

Edited to fix a typo, not the content.

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Post by Elderberry » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:42 am

if they were stupid enough to get tricked into being willing to kill others in the name of our country (big business) thats too bad for them! I'm glad they came to burningman and hope that they can get their head unwrapped from all of the brainwashing they have undergone, not to mention the needless killing and wounding they have seen or caused. all in the name of corporate greed and a disgusting government that is not for the people or by the people in almost any way shape or form!
I'd bet money that quote was from one of NeonTetra's posts. I have him blocked so I don't have to be subjected to his mindless, misguided drivel.
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Post by marck » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:01 am

If someone doesn't have their ID and you suspect that they might be an undercover cop, or working for them, ask if they would be willing to pose with you naked, before you serve them, while you take their picture.

Let them know up front that if they do fine you for serving them you will post their picture on the internet.

Make sure they sign a release form.

Caveat: If you try this with a minor, you may wind up with a different sort of fine.
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Post by HandJamMasterC » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:08 am

If they don't have an ID I'm going to make them swear on the Holy Bible that they are 21 or older ! 8)
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Post by EspressoDude » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:20 am

cfm you can card me anytime you want.

actually the id would be helpful for where to ship a body, but add you camp and location so they do't have to wait for exodus to find your stuff.

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Post by HandJamMasterC » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:28 am

if they were stupid enough to get tricked into being willing to kill others in the name of our country (big business) thats too bad for them! I'm glad they came to burningman and hope that they can get their head unwrapped from all of the brainwashing they have undergone, not to mention the needless killing and wounding they have seen or caused. all in the name of corporate greed and a disgusting government that is not for the people or by the people in almost any way shape or form!
That is just an insanely ignorant thing to say, for several reasons and on several levels. Though I may not agree with the two+ wars we're currently in, or think our government is anything more than greedy hypocrites, referring to the men and women serving as brainwashed and stupid belies a lack of information about the military and what service entails. They're not all over there with machine guns just opening fire when they get the urge.

Some of them may be "brainwashed," but so are a lot of hippies. Some of them maybe stupid but well...Eplaya has their fair share, too. Not just the military.
I was thinking I was hearing a diatribe from Alec Baldwin in Team America! :shock: :lol:

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Post by lucky420 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:41 am

So a copy of your photo id will work for most bars out there? My daughter is 21 this year and will most likely be carded. Last year she wasn't 21 yet so out of respect and not wanting any hassle, we didn't visit any bars (just brought our own). A photo copy is a great idea in case she loses it...

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