I'm more than a little unsettled to be thinking of this, but once the idea was in my head I had to ask...has anyone been tinkering with recycling their water?
I've seen improvised swamp coolers, some pretty phenomenal engineering in these art projects, and the human mind applied to issues in politics, philosphy and economy since I began participating in this community. It just seems that in the desert the problem of water is one that people must have considered time and again. So... what's the dealio? Has anyone made a reclamation system and used it?
In my minds eye I see all sorts of disturbing applications of this idea if brought to the playa as a service... Camp Peepiopee. (heh) Camp Urine Trouble! Camp "That JUST happened!"...
Recycled water anyone?
-
theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40312
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
I think I've seen some discussion of such but don't remember where. the biggest issue is going to be filtering of stuffs before they clog your equipment/pump.
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
There's more than one way to drain a lizard though. If someone used a evaporation/condensation based system for example the sediment could be left at the bottom on a tray and disposed of in some manner. (spitballing here)
Alternatively, there's a company that sells a pretty amazing "tablet" designed for use in disaster zones and countries where drinking water is at a premium. Basically the tablet can turn 2.5 gallons of sewage into potable water by causing all the non-water particles to clumb together and settle at the bottom (in addition to killing bacteria and viruses) then the user pours the purified water from the first container into a second through a cotton cloth that collects any of that sediment that might try to follow. Pretty amazing stuff!
Alternatively, there's a company that sells a pretty amazing "tablet" designed for use in disaster zones and countries where drinking water is at a premium. Basically the tablet can turn 2.5 gallons of sewage into potable water by causing all the non-water particles to clumb together and settle at the bottom (in addition to killing bacteria and viruses) then the user pours the purified water from the first container into a second through a cotton cloth that collects any of that sediment that might try to follow. Pretty amazing stuff!
(another issue could arise if this was offered as a public service of any kind, how you'd get a permit for it... I can't imagine "recycled pee" would thrill the health department)theCryptofishist wrote:I think I've seen some discussion of such but don't remember where. the biggest issue is going to be filtering of stuffs before they clog your equipment/pump.
-
Fire_Moose
- Posts: 2488
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:40 am
- Location: Scottsdale, AZ
- Contact:
-
oneeyeddick
- Posts: 5589
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:08 pm
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: Probably in your pants
-
unjonharley
- Posts: 10434
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
- Burning Since: 2001
- Camp Name: Elliot's naked bycycel repair
- Location: Salem Or.
I save my cedar saw dust (from the table saw) to soak up the Lug-a-Lu. Is perermitted to throw in trash ("here" as long as it is solid)..
All the paper from this household is shreaded and composted. Spread in a row, covered with green, (lawn clipings and other) covered again with paper the covered with black plastic. The paper and grass rot down in about two week. Then uncover so it will cool and the earth worm will turn it into top soil.
Also you may look into humanure under composting of..
All the paper from this household is shreaded and composted. Spread in a row, covered with green, (lawn clipings and other) covered again with paper the covered with black plastic. The paper and grass rot down in about two week. Then uncover so it will cool and the earth worm will turn it into top soil.
Also you may look into humanure under composting of..
because they haven't made a tablet that'll turn pee into cheese yet.oneeyeddick wrote:Instead of trying to give people pisswater, why don't you just make some nice grilled cheese sandwiches ?
Serious answer? I'm a first time burner, no way I'm undertaking this at this time out--I'm focused more on surviving, participation, and not being a burden on other people's resources. That said, even if people sweat out a bunch of the "water" they drink while on the playa, if the rest of their water was reclaimable it seems to me that the amount of water each burner needs to bring (90ish lbs per person) could be reduced significantly.
-
oneeyeddick
- Posts: 5589
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:08 pm
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: Probably in your pants
it seems to me that you're opposed to this idea for reasons that have a lot less to do with it's practicality than that we're talking about piss. First off, I'm not an expert at this stuff--it's why i asked a question and supplied some of the stuff I'd been reading instead of posting it as a tip.
Second for your estimations about saved water, the tablet solution comes in a kit with two collapsable jugs, six tablets, and a cloth--and weighs 2.6 ounces. That'd purify 15 gallons of "piss" right there, saving 125.5 lbs. Clearly only effective if used in a group scenario.
Maybe the water doesn't even have to be reused for drinking. Showers? *lol* it gives me the heebeejeebees contemplating washing a dish with it. But in theory, it's doable right?
Second for your estimations about saved water, the tablet solution comes in a kit with two collapsable jugs, six tablets, and a cloth--and weighs 2.6 ounces. That'd purify 15 gallons of "piss" right there, saving 125.5 lbs. Clearly only effective if used in a group scenario.
Maybe the water doesn't even have to be reused for drinking. Showers? *lol* it gives me the heebeejeebees contemplating washing a dish with it. But in theory, it's doable right?
-
oneeyeddick
- Posts: 5589
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:08 pm
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: Probably in your pants
And it would cost a lot more than the water in the first place.
Some filtration sytems have already been made on playa that will PROPERLY filter piss into drinkable water, but even those had problems and had to be taken down and scrapped.
I supplied some of the parts to one of them, but he didn't have enough(or the right micron size) filters to filter the playa out .
You ain't selling me on the magic tablet that you speak of, especially if they are anything like the ones available at most box stores.
How about a link to your big magic pill?
Some filtration sytems have already been made on playa that will PROPERLY filter piss into drinkable water, but even those had problems and had to be taken down and scrapped.
I supplied some of the parts to one of them, but he didn't have enough(or the right micron size) filters to filter the playa out .
You ain't selling me on the magic tablet that you speak of, especially if they are anything like the ones available at most box stores.
How about a link to your big magic pill?
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.
I was only trying to avoid advertising for a specific company or product on these forums, if it's not frowned upon I'll link the video just so long as it's clear I'm not endorsing the product so much as the solution it represents. I'm sure there's plenty of competition and considering the company maybe a higher cost solution would provide a higher quality of water at the end. That said, the kit is under $20 and refill tablets are available for around $10. So again, the cost is a bit different than what you seem to believe.
Also, this isn't "my" magic pill. if I were planning to do this from scratch I'd lean more towards a solar powered evaporation and condensation system. I built one as a kid for a science project, though at the time no urine was involved!
Also, this isn't "my" magic pill. if I were planning to do this from scratch I'd lean more towards a solar powered evaporation and condensation system. I built one as a kid for a science project, though at the time no urine was involved!
-
oneeyeddick
- Posts: 5589
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:08 pm
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: Probably in your pants
-
mudpuppy000
- Posts: 1552
- Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:54 pm
- Burning Since: 2009
- Camp Name: THE BELLIGERENT GAP
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
Some highlights from the review:mudpuppy000 wrote:Hmmm, I still can't figure out if it's just removing solids from the liquid or if it's actually purifying it of chemicals. My impression is that it'd work on really dirty fresh water, but not salt water, pee, or anything that has been contaminated with chemicals. (maybe I'm wrong)
"employs the exact chemical process as used in many municipal water-treatment plants around the Western world"
"the process introduces iron sulfate and calcium hypochlorite in a powder form to water tainted with sediments and microorganisms. Unlike iodine or other typical treatments used in the outdoors, the P&G process pulls all the gunk in water together, coagulating nasties including cysts, microbes, viruses and bacteria into clumps you can then filter out. "
"The final result is water that’s 99.99 percent pure, according to data from [[[COMPANY THAT PRODUCES IT]]], which needed U.S. Environmental Protection Agency approval before introducing the chemically-potent product to the consumer market earlier this year."
// Also: I'm not a doctor, but isn't urine supposed to be sterile in general? Any medical professional please chime in here. This'd just be getting rid of sediment, coloration and improving the flavor in addition to a chemical cleaning to ensure that the finished product is safe to drink.
-
oneeyeddick
- Posts: 5589
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:08 pm
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: Probably in your pants
I guess we'll never know if it filters piss properly until you try it and let us know whether or not you got sick.
BTW, one of the biggest problems with the existing systems I spake of was thier inability to flocculate the Playa dust,
with it having a Micron size of .1 to .5 microns.....but we all eat and drink that dust without really having a choice about it anyhoot.
BTW, one of the biggest problems with the existing systems I spake of was thier inability to flocculate the Playa dust,
with it having a Micron size of .1 to .5 microns.....but we all eat and drink that dust without really having a choice about it anyhoot.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.
You make me giggle. I hope to see you on the playa this year. You and a few other favorites I've come to look forward to hearing your responses every time I come post.
[quote="oneeyeddick"]Instead of trying to give people pisswater, why don't you just make some nice grilled cheese sandwiches ?[/quote]
To add my two cents, I live in the desert that is much hotter and a more scarcity of water where many times people travelling to my area have died when their cars broke down and they lost cell service in the desert and only had one gallon of drinking water to hike the 3 miles back to the edges of town...
I would think the PUR system would work, but as OneEyedDick states, as well as others, I have to concur... simply because:
If you have to be rational and completely sceientifical, think of the overall idea of each idea. 1. being bringing all the fresh and potable drinking water you can need ... or 2. bringing a filtration system you'd hope works, and enough water to filter once or twice for the whole trip...
So look.. You're still bringing water, who knows how much, to filter later anyways. So if you bring 90 gallons for a few in your camp or bring 40 gallons to filter... What's the harm in lugging the other 50 gallons as well??
Say some crazy acid burned burner comes running through your camp, and knocks over your filtration system, bye-bye water.
Say the filtration system doesn't work with PLAYA dust. Which is completely different then any said dirt. Its magic from what i can gather...(i kid i kid) but it does have the alkali base chemicals not to mention whatever other chemicals you are trying to filter.
Those are just a few of the conclusions I came to this winter when I decided to just get some army surplus water containers, lug them up to the playa 15 hours away from my home town (bring them EMPTY) and fill up in reno at a water place somewhere before I head out...
If you want cheap, efficient, failsafe, and easy, it's just honestly easier.
If burning man were 2 weeks or longer, then yes, I would say that testing the water filtration systems would be worth the amount and effort. But otherwise, these guys have probably thought of or tried most of what you and I are thinking about our first time. I'm definitely sticking with their advice...
Hope some of this helped. But then again, I could just be batshit crazy.
Loves and hugs
Kate
[quote="oneeyeddick"]Instead of trying to give people pisswater, why don't you just make some nice grilled cheese sandwiches ?[/quote]
To add my two cents, I live in the desert that is much hotter and a more scarcity of water where many times people travelling to my area have died when their cars broke down and they lost cell service in the desert and only had one gallon of drinking water to hike the 3 miles back to the edges of town...
I would think the PUR system would work, but as OneEyedDick states, as well as others, I have to concur... simply because:
If you have to be rational and completely sceientifical, think of the overall idea of each idea. 1. being bringing all the fresh and potable drinking water you can need ... or 2. bringing a filtration system you'd hope works, and enough water to filter once or twice for the whole trip...
So look.. You're still bringing water, who knows how much, to filter later anyways. So if you bring 90 gallons for a few in your camp or bring 40 gallons to filter... What's the harm in lugging the other 50 gallons as well??
Say some crazy acid burned burner comes running through your camp, and knocks over your filtration system, bye-bye water.
Say the filtration system doesn't work with PLAYA dust. Which is completely different then any said dirt. Its magic from what i can gather...(i kid i kid) but it does have the alkali base chemicals not to mention whatever other chemicals you are trying to filter.
Those are just a few of the conclusions I came to this winter when I decided to just get some army surplus water containers, lug them up to the playa 15 hours away from my home town (bring them EMPTY) and fill up in reno at a water place somewhere before I head out...
If you want cheap, efficient, failsafe, and easy, it's just honestly easier.
If burning man were 2 weeks or longer, then yes, I would say that testing the water filtration systems would be worth the amount and effort. But otherwise, these guys have probably thought of or tried most of what you and I are thinking about our first time. I'm definitely sticking with their advice...
Hope some of this helped. But then again, I could just be batshit crazy.
Loves and hugs
Kate
Well there's a lot of different things to respond to in there, where to start...
From a logistic standpoint there's a significant difference between lugging 40 gallons of water v. lugging 90. 400 lbs difference and seven cubic feet. That's a lot of food, a shade structure, any number of things extra you could be substitute or room for another passenger in your car.
Crazy acid burned guy runs through my tent and knocks over the filtration system? *lol* Well ok, in that scenario #1 I try to repair it: the tablets in this situation aren't broke, the cloth still exists, so basically the only thing that can be broken is the containers you move water from/to... so I have to find some empty water jugs on the playa and replace whatever water got lost. That's something I'd have to do if someone knocked over my water jugs anyway, right?
As for not working with the magical playa dust, I've got no reason to believe it won't. Not working with a filtration system is one thing, not being filtered by cheese cloth after the floculation process is something that hasn't been analyzed at all--so in the absence of evidence to the contrary I choose to believe that the product does it's job as advertised and reviewed.
Further, this post has nothing to do with easy, practical, or fail safe. I've always, often to other people's dismay, placed more value in the words "possible" and "best". You choose to place value on the event's time as a magnitude that, if increased, would add some merit to this plan... but consider instead the sheer size of the event. Nearly 50,000 people each using 1.5 gallons of water a day (or more). This isn't about what's easiest for one person or one camp.
I know we got sidetracked by the urine issue, because honestly it's the funniest, but what about gray water. People are using evaporation to dispose of it right now, but what if you could reuse the shower and dish water? Microns of playa dust might not even matter then.
All I'm saying is that water is important. A lot of it is going to waste and I think it could be reclaimed. Am I the only one that thinks we could do this better?
From a logistic standpoint there's a significant difference between lugging 40 gallons of water v. lugging 90. 400 lbs difference and seven cubic feet. That's a lot of food, a shade structure, any number of things extra you could be substitute or room for another passenger in your car.
Crazy acid burned guy runs through my tent and knocks over the filtration system? *lol* Well ok, in that scenario #1 I try to repair it: the tablets in this situation aren't broke, the cloth still exists, so basically the only thing that can be broken is the containers you move water from/to... so I have to find some empty water jugs on the playa and replace whatever water got lost. That's something I'd have to do if someone knocked over my water jugs anyway, right?
As for not working with the magical playa dust, I've got no reason to believe it won't. Not working with a filtration system is one thing, not being filtered by cheese cloth after the floculation process is something that hasn't been analyzed at all--so in the absence of evidence to the contrary I choose to believe that the product does it's job as advertised and reviewed.
Further, this post has nothing to do with easy, practical, or fail safe. I've always, often to other people's dismay, placed more value in the words "possible" and "best". You choose to place value on the event's time as a magnitude that, if increased, would add some merit to this plan... but consider instead the sheer size of the event. Nearly 50,000 people each using 1.5 gallons of water a day (or more). This isn't about what's easiest for one person or one camp.
I know we got sidetracked by the urine issue, because honestly it's the funniest, but what about gray water. People are using evaporation to dispose of it right now, but what if you could reuse the shower and dish water? Microns of playa dust might not even matter then.
All I'm saying is that water is important. A lot of it is going to waste and I think it could be reclaimed. Am I the only one that thinks we could do this better?
Valid Debate, sweetie.
Yes, taking cars and trucks, you would be maybe better off.
I'm using a local moving truck, and I'm LUGGING the empty containers to Reno, filling up there, and taking it easy the 2-4 hours drive from Reno to BRC. So I didn't mean drive cross country from Kansas to Nevada with 90 gallons of water.. Sorry.
How big will your camp be? How many will you share water with? This is something you'd have to worry about.
And hey, it's January. Why not start testing the theory yourself at home and see what works best? Be our guinea pig :lol:
If you decide either way, as another virgin, I'd LOVE to know. I'm going to end up bringing your camp a gallon of water in exchange you'll gift me some of your pee pee water. :lol:
Ok, last part I'm kidding. But really now. I will come by and if it works, congratulate you. I just have so many other things I'm stressing on elsewhere, cost, foods, transport, for just my best friend and I going solo the first time, that I'd rather just bring the water, worry about an evap pond, and spend time helping others then filtering water.. especially just if for some reason, something goes wrong, and I'm bumming water ...
But hey, if I end up that route, I'll have to come to your camp first, RIGHT?
:wink:
Yes, taking cars and trucks, you would be maybe better off.
I'm using a local moving truck, and I'm LUGGING the empty containers to Reno, filling up there, and taking it easy the 2-4 hours drive from Reno to BRC. So I didn't mean drive cross country from Kansas to Nevada with 90 gallons of water.. Sorry.
How big will your camp be? How many will you share water with? This is something you'd have to worry about.
And hey, it's January. Why not start testing the theory yourself at home and see what works best? Be our guinea pig :lol:
If you decide either way, as another virgin, I'd LOVE to know. I'm going to end up bringing your camp a gallon of water in exchange you'll gift me some of your pee pee water. :lol:
Ok, last part I'm kidding. But really now. I will come by and if it works, congratulate you. I just have so many other things I'm stressing on elsewhere, cost, foods, transport, for just my best friend and I going solo the first time, that I'd rather just bring the water, worry about an evap pond, and spend time helping others then filtering water.. especially just if for some reason, something goes wrong, and I'm bumming water ...
But hey, if I end up that route, I'll have to come to your camp first, RIGHT?
:wink:
-
Captain Goddammit
- Posts: 8589
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
- Burning Since: 2000
- Camp Name: First Camp
- Location: Seattle, WA
Please excuse me for being "blunt", but this tops the list of stupidest Burning Man ideas I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot!
It's only a WEEK... it's not THAT far out of town... water isn't "a drop in the bucket" (haha) of the total load people carry out there, and as has been stated, you only have to carry water the last 50 - 100 miles. I bring at least 100 gallons, for two people.
Most (I'd dare say ALL) people use a shitload more water at home the rest of the year than they do at Burning Man, so resource conservation isn't a genuine concern.
If it's such a big deal to bring enough water, don't come to BRC on your motorcycle!
If you haven't been to Black Rock Desert, you really DO NOT understand the dust situation. Listen to what oneeyeddick is trying to tell you.
Or go for it, drink refried piss, but if you do me a favor and mist me with a nice cool spray bottle one hot day and I kick your ass, this is why.
It's only a WEEK... it's not THAT far out of town... water isn't "a drop in the bucket" (haha) of the total load people carry out there, and as has been stated, you only have to carry water the last 50 - 100 miles. I bring at least 100 gallons, for two people.
Most (I'd dare say ALL) people use a shitload more water at home the rest of the year than they do at Burning Man, so resource conservation isn't a genuine concern.
If it's such a big deal to bring enough water, don't come to BRC on your motorcycle!
If you haven't been to Black Rock Desert, you really DO NOT understand the dust situation. Listen to what oneeyeddick is trying to tell you.
Or go for it, drink refried piss, but if you do me a favor and mist me with a nice cool spray bottle one hot day and I kick your ass, this is why.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
Well at least I managed to start a new standard without trying. That said, there's evidently been a precedent of attempting it, so I'm not alone in having the idea--and bluntness I can excuse any day of the week but your tone goes a bit beyond that, unnecessarily in my opinion.Captain Goddammit wrote:Please excuse me for being "blunt", but this tops the list of stupidest Burning Man ideas I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot!
Again placing the emphasis on the duration rather than the scope of the event. I've already stated why I don't think the duration is as important as the number of participants. If you disagree that's fine, but bear in mind you're bringing nearly 10x the minimum water recommended, which is an order of magnitude higher than my original estimates. Doesn't that make conservation more important? Oh that's right...Captain Goddammit wrote:It's only a WEEK... it's not THAT far out of town...water isn't "a drop in the bucket" (haha) of the total load people carry out there, and as has been stated, you only have to carry water the last 50 - 100 miles. I bring at least 100 gallons, for two people.
Clearly if we're being wasteful year round, our week in the desert shouldn't be when we try a new way of looking at things... but it is an opportunity to.Captain Goddammit wrote:Most (I'd dare say ALL) people use a shitload more water at home the rest of the year than they do at Burning Man, so resource conservation isn't a genuine concern.
How about ... "no." Seriously, all he's done is tell me what hasn't worked. That's useful input (decidedly different from your useless rant). That's fine, I still think there's a system out there that'd work and be productive.Captain Goddammit wrote:If you haven't been to Black Rock Desert, you really DO NOT understand the dust situation. Listen to what oneeyeddick is trying to tell you.
Again, the piss stuff is funny (and just as practical as anything else), but the more I think about water reclamation it seems the biggest waste and most interesting reclamation project would involve gray water--I wish I'd focused on that instead of what I found funny about the idea, but that's just how my mind works. Now it seems we can't get away from that...Captain Goddammit wrote:Or go for it, drink refried piss, but if you do me a favor and mist me with a nice cool spray bottle one hot day and I kick your ass, this is why.
Finally, your childish threats are an embarrassment. They don't have a place in this conversation and if you persist in them, well--I'll ignore you like any other flamer who has to resort to macho crap when they're unable to argue a point effectively. Consider this an invitation to grow up or go away.
Haven't picked a camp, will probably just join up with some of the burners from the midwest regional in a larger camp. Right now the only person I know for sure that I'm traveling with is my roommate and we've been discussing this idea.Victorian wrote:Valid Debate, sweetie.
Yes, taking cars and trucks, you would be maybe better off.
I'm using a local moving truck, and I'm LUGGING the empty containers to Reno, filling up there, and taking it easy the 2-4 hours drive from Reno to BRC. So I didn't mean drive cross country from Kansas to Nevada with 90 gallons of water.. Sorry.
How big will your camp be? How many will you share water with? This is something you'd have to worry about.
And hey, it's January. Why not start testing the theory yourself at home and see what works best? Be our guinea pig :lol:
If you decide either way, as another virgin, I'd LOVE to know. I'm going to end up bringing your camp a gallon of water in exchange you'll gift me some of your pee pee water. :lol:
Ok, last part I'm kidding. But really now. I will come by and if it works, congratulate you. I just have so many other things I'm stressing on elsewhere, cost, foods, transport, for just my best friend and I going solo the first time, that I'd rather just bring the water, worry about an evap pond, and spend time helping others then filtering water.. especially just if for some reason, something goes wrong, and I'm bumming water ...
But hey, if I end up that route, I'll have to come to your camp first, RIGHT?
:wink:
Speaking of which: we've talked about it and we're gonna experiment at the house (not with pee *lol*). Assuming the tablets work, next year people who want to come by and recycle their used dish & shower water will be welcome, we'll bring extra jugs, a lot of extra tablets, and show ya'll how it's done. Urine will only be exchangeable for a few moments of strained silence followed by laughter.
-
Captain Goddammit
- Posts: 8589
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
- Burning Since: 2000
- Camp Name: First Camp
- Location: Seattle, WA
OK, here's a less abrasive attempt at cluing you in from a "flamer who has to resort to macho crap when they're unable to argue a point effectively."lbdavid98 wrote:point-by-point retort...
I'm not making any "childish threats", the if you spray me with piss I'm kicking your ass part was mild humor... as you said, the piss stuff is funny... although anyone with a backbone would probably react similarly unfavorably to a polished-piss bath.
I'm coming at you from the standpoint of someone who's been out there for a decade. I don't know everything there is to know, but I can tell you that you quite easily bring the water supply you want to support the lifestyle you feel like providing for yourself. I like to take a nice hot shower every day, and my girlfriend likes to wash her hair and rinse it well, so I bring the water I need.
Seriously, ample water isn't anywhere near the heaviest thing I transport, same for a whole lot of burners. Forget the "minimum recommended" amounts, that's for basic human survival. In BRC you live as comfortably as you wish, or as crudely as you wish.
It's not preparing for the end of civilization. It's a camping trip, with lots of partying and burning stuff and costumes and art projects.
Just go, see what it's really like, and refine your wisdom toward proper BM prep as you see fit. All I'm trying to tell you is it's not so far into another galaxy that you need to drink any particular can of beer more than once.
Listen to some of the people other than me who have actually been there a lot. The dust is unlike anything you are familiar with, and there's no need to deny yourself a nice glass of ice water that hasn't been dispensed from anyone's weinerschitzel or been siphoned from the waste tank..
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
-
oneeyeddick
- Posts: 5589
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:08 pm
- Burning Since: 1996
- Location: Probably in your pants
* raises hand *
I have also been there more than a decade now, and I have drank water from two different filtration systems.
One of them was highly effecient, with carbon and Iron sulfate gravels, a spindown to get rid of the playa(didn't work very well) and a ultraviolet light filter to get rid of remaining bacteria.
It still tasted like piss.
The other one was just a carbon gravel bucket filter, but then they had a complete reverse osmosis system after that, and the water was fine.
But...the inherent problem with both of these is that the PH of the water was prolly not right, seeing how the water they were recycling was heavily playafied, being from an evap pond and loaded with Dr Bronners hippy stink-b-gone, and in the end if the PH is off too much, it will actually make your body thirstier by drinking it.
I suspect that that magic powder from PUR will lead to both a pissy aftertaste and a bad PH level because of these factors.
As for what you are gonna recycle, when you started this thread by saying....
If you are talking about recycling dish and shower water for dish and shower water purposes, then all you need is a few gallons of carbon gravel and a little bit of bleach.
A lot of people already do this type of recycling.
You should still rinse your dishes in clean water at the end, and possibly a sanitizer in the rinse water, especially if you are gonna give away any food to "friends" that was cooked in said dishes.
And don't use too much bleach if you gonna shower in it, unless you wanna be a blonde.
And BTW, I highly suspect that the playa dust that doesn't flocculate also will pass right through that cotton cloth that comes with the kit, simply because that rag is not prepared for dirt particles this small.
If you filterd JUST piss, staight from the jug, it would prolly work better for you if you are gonna drink it, if the product does what it claims it does, that is, but in the end you will still be drinking piss water....
I have also been there more than a decade now, and I have drank water from two different filtration systems.
One of them was highly effecient, with carbon and Iron sulfate gravels, a spindown to get rid of the playa(didn't work very well) and a ultraviolet light filter to get rid of remaining bacteria.
It still tasted like piss.
The other one was just a carbon gravel bucket filter, but then they had a complete reverse osmosis system after that, and the water was fine.
But...the inherent problem with both of these is that the PH of the water was prolly not right, seeing how the water they were recycling was heavily playafied, being from an evap pond and loaded with Dr Bronners hippy stink-b-gone, and in the end if the PH is off too much, it will actually make your body thirstier by drinking it.
I suspect that that magic powder from PUR will lead to both a pissy aftertaste and a bad PH level because of these factors.
As for what you are gonna recycle, when you started this thread by saying....
this, of course, led us to thinking that you are talking about recycling pee for drinking purposes.lbdavid98 wrote:
In my minds eye I see all sorts of disturbing applications of this idea if brought to the playa as a service... Camp Peepiopee. (heh) Camp Urine Trouble! ...
If you are talking about recycling dish and shower water for dish and shower water purposes, then all you need is a few gallons of carbon gravel and a little bit of bleach.
A lot of people already do this type of recycling.
You should still rinse your dishes in clean water at the end, and possibly a sanitizer in the rinse water, especially if you are gonna give away any food to "friends" that was cooked in said dishes.
And don't use too much bleach if you gonna shower in it, unless you wanna be a blonde.
And BTW, I highly suspect that the playa dust that doesn't flocculate also will pass right through that cotton cloth that comes with the kit, simply because that rag is not prepared for dirt particles this small.
If you filterd JUST piss, staight from the jug, it would prolly work better for you if you are gonna drink it, if the product does what it claims it does, that is, but in the end you will still be drinking piss water....
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.
Welcome to the conversation Captain Goddamit. 
I still place a different emphasis on the value of water. Additionally I think for some people out on the playa are bound to underestimate how much they're gonna need if they want to shower with any frequency--and maybe for them space is at a premium. For example, I'll be flying in and then trying to hitch a ride from Reno with my roommate. We're going to spend a lot of this year making connections and arrangements, but I'd like to inconvenience the people who help us out as little as possible. I doubt we're the only people in that position, so yeah: we're gonna give this idea a run and next year I'll either be posting it as a tip or telling the next virgin to abandon all hope and not even try.
As for the point by point retort, sometimes that's how I maintain civility and stay focused on what deserves to be responded to instead of flying off the handle. Straight up, your last post made my hair stand on end. I don't respond well to being called stupid in the first sentence and threatened (even comically) in the last. If you think that's a character flaw give me a road map to understanding how that's supposed to be interpreted positively and I'll at least consider it. Since then it seems we've all settled down into a productive mode of communication, and I'd like to keep that trend going.
Oneeyeddick: I've acknowledged my culpability in leading this post astray by starting with the funny and moving back towards the practical. All attempts to steer it back towards the reclamation of gray water have been overshadowed by that error in judgment. That said, it is an attention getter, and you're here now supplying some useful insights...but you'd probably be here anyway right?
You're indicating that the use of soap/shampoo made the gray water undrinkable after a filtration process, do you think it's completely unusable for a second shower if it got cleaned this way?
I'd have loved to see the reverse osmosis system. And it sounds to me like there's plenty of people doing water reclamation of one kind or another out there--you can bet I'll be wandering around taking notes. At this point it sounds like the most productive thing to do is come up with a jug/filter system of our own--test drive it at a local burn, tweak, bring it to the playa and then give it a shot.
I still place a different emphasis on the value of water. Additionally I think for some people out on the playa are bound to underestimate how much they're gonna need if they want to shower with any frequency--and maybe for them space is at a premium. For example, I'll be flying in and then trying to hitch a ride from Reno with my roommate. We're going to spend a lot of this year making connections and arrangements, but I'd like to inconvenience the people who help us out as little as possible. I doubt we're the only people in that position, so yeah: we're gonna give this idea a run and next year I'll either be posting it as a tip or telling the next virgin to abandon all hope and not even try. As for the point by point retort, sometimes that's how I maintain civility and stay focused on what deserves to be responded to instead of flying off the handle. Straight up, your last post made my hair stand on end. I don't respond well to being called stupid in the first sentence and threatened (even comically) in the last. If you think that's a character flaw give me a road map to understanding how that's supposed to be interpreted positively and I'll at least consider it. Since then it seems we've all settled down into a productive mode of communication, and I'd like to keep that trend going.
Oneeyeddick: I've acknowledged my culpability in leading this post astray by starting with the funny and moving back towards the practical. All attempts to steer it back towards the reclamation of gray water have been overshadowed by that error in judgment. That said, it is an attention getter, and you're here now supplying some useful insights...but you'd probably be here anyway right?
You're indicating that the use of soap/shampoo made the gray water undrinkable after a filtration process, do you think it's completely unusable for a second shower if it got cleaned this way?
I'd have loved to see the reverse osmosis system. And it sounds to me like there's plenty of people doing water reclamation of one kind or another out there--you can bet I'll be wandering around taking notes. At this point it sounds like the most productive thing to do is come up with a jug/filter system of our own--test drive it at a local burn, tweak, bring it to the playa and then give it a shot.
You've got enough time, expiriment at the house. Regardless of your findings, and as funny as pee is, FOR THE LOVE OF THE PLAYA GODS, don't give us pee.
I'm down with tasting recycled dishwater, it will all be part of new experiences I find on the Playa as a new burner.
I know, for a fact, that the military does have tablets they distribute (ex USAF myself)... but they are highly inefficient like these guys are mentioning. And if you understand what the PH (as he mentioned) is of this alkaline dust, you need to maybe do some more research on that, because my worry is the same as his... you can't just filter that shit with cloth.
I will definitely bring you my cleaner type of dishwater, and if you allow other's to do so, you might want to ask what they "think" might be in the water (i.e., what soap the used-dawn with bleach or organic chemical free soap) and I would not really be distributing drinkable water back out to burners just for safety reasons.
Captain may have been abrasive, but he was right. If I got sick, I'd probably hold a grudge as well.. that's all he's trying to prove.
And again, david, from one newb to another... I'm only 15 hours drive away from the Esplanade, and I'm bringing a moving truck. Would you like me to bring you a few gallons, just in case?
I'm down with tasting recycled dishwater, it will all be part of new experiences I find on the Playa as a new burner.
I know, for a fact, that the military does have tablets they distribute (ex USAF myself)... but they are highly inefficient like these guys are mentioning. And if you understand what the PH (as he mentioned) is of this alkaline dust, you need to maybe do some more research on that, because my worry is the same as his... you can't just filter that shit with cloth.
I will definitely bring you my cleaner type of dishwater, and if you allow other's to do so, you might want to ask what they "think" might be in the water (i.e., what soap the used-dawn with bleach or organic chemical free soap) and I would not really be distributing drinkable water back out to burners just for safety reasons.
Captain may have been abrasive, but he was right. If I got sick, I'd probably hold a grudge as well.. that's all he's trying to prove.
And again, david, from one newb to another... I'm only 15 hours drive away from the Esplanade, and I'm bringing a moving truck. Would you like me to bring you a few gallons, just in case?
Considering the planning problems we're already facing getting our gear out there, I might just take you up on that offer! I'll stay in touch and maybe we'll make some arrangements if you're still down when we get a little closer to the date.Victorian wrote:You've got enough time, expiriment at the house. Regardless of your findings, and as funny as pee is, FOR THE LOVE OF THE PLAYA GODS, don't give us pee.
I'm down with tasting recycled dishwater, it will all be part of new experiences I find on the Playa as a new burner.
I know, for a fact, that the military does have tablets they distribute (ex USAF myself)... but they are highly inefficient like these guys are mentioning. And if you understand what the PH (as he mentioned) is of this alkaline dust, you need to maybe do some more research on that, because my worry is the same as his... you can't just filter that shit with cloth.
I will definitely bring you my cleaner type of dishwater, and if you allow other's to do so, you might want to ask what they "think" might be in the water (i.e., what soap the used-dawn with bleach or organic chemical free soap) and I would not really be distributing drinkable water back out to burners just for safety reasons.
Captain may have been abrasive, but he was right. If I got sick, I'd probably hold a grudge as well.. that's all he's trying to prove.
And again, david, from one newb to another... I'm only 15 hours drive away from the Esplanade, and I'm bringing a moving truck. Would you like me to bring you a few gallons, just in case?
I have no problem offering to help if I can.
I'm at the moment, still searching for the perfect water "containers" myself.
I'm a native desert, so I actually only pretty much drink water on times like this.. Unless the suns down and I have a drink or two. :wink:
So I'm calculating similar to Captain, my best friend and I are bringing 100 gallons or so if we can, for cooking, drinking, bathing, and all of the above. I might as well bring as much as I can, our summers here are 130 degrees for two whole months.
I've seen what heat and dehydration can do....
And I'm talking your body seising so bad from heat exhaustion or heat stroke, you can't control your functions well enough to keep your head from slamming against the pavement as your body jerks around like a fish out of water, and all you can do is keep screaming...
Seriously.. it's not a pretty thing at all. And the Playa will be beautiful. Why take the risk on your FIRST trip atleast? Not worth it at all hun.
I'm at the moment, still searching for the perfect water "containers" myself.
I'm a native desert, so I actually only pretty much drink water on times like this.. Unless the suns down and I have a drink or two. :wink:
So I'm calculating similar to Captain, my best friend and I are bringing 100 gallons or so if we can, for cooking, drinking, bathing, and all of the above. I might as well bring as much as I can, our summers here are 130 degrees for two whole months.
I've seen what heat and dehydration can do....
And I'm talking your body seising so bad from heat exhaustion or heat stroke, you can't control your functions well enough to keep your head from slamming against the pavement as your body jerks around like a fish out of water, and all you can do is keep screaming...
Seriously.. it's not a pretty thing at all. And the Playa will be beautiful. Why take the risk on your FIRST trip atleast? Not worth it at all hun.