Carrying ID: copy or original?

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drdiffracto
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Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by drdiffracto » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:37 am

I know that a lot of bar camps will card you, which makes sense. But I've heard some people talk about having copies of your ID attached to your cup, and other places refer to having your actual ID on you. Is it sufficient to just have a printed copy, or does it have to be an actual ID for people to legally accept it?

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Kelsier
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Kelsier » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:28 am

Most bars on playa will accept a copy of an ID, especially if you clearly look over 21.

But that is MOST, not all. Some places may require an original, so if you don't have it on you you might be refused service at some places. Not a big deal, just move on to a different place.
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Token
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Token » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:32 am

"Legally Accept"?

Any copy or reproduction of an ID has no "legal" value.

Bring a real ID if you are worried about this.

It is completely up to the proprietor as to what they choose is acceptable, but it sure ain't "legally" anything.

drdiffracto
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by drdiffracto » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:53 am

Token wrote:It is completely up to the proprietor as to what they choose is acceptable, but it sure ain't "legally" anything.
I wouldn't say I'm worried about it, but I was assuming the reason camps card people is because they're legally liable if they don't. Otherwise, why bother?

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Chowski
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Chowski » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:08 pm

I carry a copy. Because I would never carry the original. I don't take anything to Burning Man that would cost me significant money, time, or emotional effort to replace. Valuables stay locked in the car. If a bar decides to turn you away for having a copy, walk seven feet to the next bar.

Pro tip: Make a color copy of your ID, seal it in scotch tape, and tape it to your cup. In fact, make two - put one in your adventure bag, and one on your cup.

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Just_Joe
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Just_Joe » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:29 pm

drdiffracto wrote:
Token wrote:It is completely up to the proprietor as to what they choose is acceptable, but it sure ain't "legally" anything.
I wouldn't say I'm worried about it, but I was assuming the reason camps card people is because they're legally liable if they don't. Otherwise, why bother?
If they're under 21, your breaking the law.
It's up to you to set a standard. If a crappy laminated fake ID or note from their mother is enough to get a drink, so be it.
In my case, a decent photocopy of a DL would make me happy.
You'll only be sure of compliance when/if an LEO runs the ID.

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Token
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Token » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:24 pm

The point is that if a proprietor checks a real ID, they are off the hook. If the ID is fake, the person carrying the "fake" ID get the ticket. A photocopy of an ID is by definition a fake ID.

If they check a copy, picture or mom's note and a LEO decides to be a dick (which never happens, trust me) doesn't matter that you had best intentions. A LEO can just write you the $1000+ ticket because s/he simply can.

So, either use a real ID or bring your own booze with you.

I always carried my real ID. It was a state ID, different than my drivers license, so could live fine if I lost it. Protected both me and the kind person pouring the cocktails.

Anyone carrying a copy of an ID think they are covering their and the proprietor's ass, but in reality only show disrespect for the folks gifting them drinks.

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Ratty
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Ratty » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:47 pm

I have to agree with Tolken. With only 30 days till departure it's a little late to ask for a 2nd ID so secure yours to your pack and carry the original. If you look young I wouldn't offer you a drink. I also would hate to turn you away but in my mind you may be undercover.
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Just_Joe
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Just_Joe » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:10 pm

So now that I'm home and have the internets to give me legal advice, my opinion stands.
In "most states" It's up to you to require "reasonably realistic" proof of age. If you don't trust a photocopy, then don't trust it.

I'm glad I'm not a bar camp. If ticketed unfairly, it would still be costly to fight and maybe cheaper to just pay the fine.

In most states, a licensee is only held liable for selling to a minor without asking for any ID. If ID is asked for, and a fake ID indicating the minor is actually 21 is shown, then in almost all cases, no charges will be filed from either the police or from the alcohol control board. The one caveat is that the ID must appear to be reasonably realistic: if it says the minor is 100 years old, or is of a different sex or completely different appearance, then you will likely be held liable. But with the prevalence of extremely accurate looking forgeries on the black market, rarely will a bar or liquor store be held liable for accepting a fake ID. The same applies to actual IDs that don't belong to the minor (i.e. if he uses his older brother's real driver's license).

Here's a discussion from a law firm in Vegas:
http://www.shouselaw.com/nevada/furnish ... minor.html

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Token
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Token » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:54 pm

JJ, few years back there was a big thread on here where lots of actual laws specific to NV were cited, analyzed and discussed.

Can't remember how far back, maybe more than a few years ago.

There were facts and then there were risk assessments.

In NV both the minor and proprietor can get dinged.

The risk angle really has to do with dealing with stupid or dealing with under cover cops.

There is no remedy for stupid. the harder you try the more likely a more-better-stupid shows up.

Carding everyone will help with the cop stings.

End of the day, common sense is usually good, but following the letter of the law is best.

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Eric
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Eric » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:19 am

I bartend at one of my camps on-playa. If you look young we're going to card you, I don't care if you're in your 70s. If you are obviously over 21 we might not bother, but you better look way past legal. If you only have a photocopy, you're not getting served.

Note: I'm in my 50s, I carry my real ID on me. I have a pouch that has only that in it, that pouch only gets opened if I get carded. I haven't lost an ID out there yet.
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maladroit
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by maladroit » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:22 pm

I have a spare ID because I got a new ID when I moved, but they didn't collect or tell me to destroy the old one. Other than the address, it's exactly the same as my current ID (only info changed is the address, is not expired). I'd assume that's real enough to cart around the playa, I only (might) get in trouble if I provided it to a law officer as ID.

As a side note, my "real" ID also has an incorrect address, since I moved again...and they told me I couldn't request another updated license so soon. So I'd say that makes both IDs identical in terms of accurate information.

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Chowski
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Chowski » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:58 pm

I have carried only a photocopy of my ID for every one of my seven burns. I have never been denied service when asked to produce it. If you are someone prone to losing things, don't take your real ID. If someone refuses to serve you, who cares? There are literally hundreds of bars. No on is being entrapped by your not carrying your ID around.

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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by silvergirl70 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:08 pm

Funny aside:
Ok, dating myself here, but this was pre-internet. I had a 'fake' ID prepared and handed to me by a police officer. (To protect the innocent, he was near retirement, and is probably long dead by now.)
At the time, I had just finished first year of college, and i had a friend from NY who had legally changed her name after she ran away from home at age 16 (crazy mother had tried to have her exorcized...but I digress). We were in FL, and I took her 'old name' birth certificate and went to the DMV and got an official Florida State ID with my pic, but bearing her old name. I was 18, she was 21.
The officer handed me the completed ID, as I was shitting bricks. But...I used it for 2.5 yrs until giving it to my younger sisters to use (they both did thru college. )
I would never have the balls to do that today, but it was the best 'fake' I ever had. 8)
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Savannah
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Savannah » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:21 pm

I always save the temporary paper ID I get when I replace a new ID . . .
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Re: Carrying ID: copy or original?

Post by Thecatman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:08 pm

About 3 months after I turned 50 I got carded while buying a 12 pack of Hamms beer at a grocery store.
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