HexaYurts

[maladroit]

If you can actually get four people to focus on it, a day is feasible. I did an H12 in a day and a half, by myself, semifolding and foil-covered hinges. Make sure EVERYTHING else is done ahead of time, so you can focus on your shelter.

I wouldn't go less than 1.5" thick, especially with the stretch design. Windows and crossbreeze are needed during the day. There are some neat 200mm (big!) computer case fans that will move a good amount of air pretty quietly off a 12V car battery. A swamp cooler is nice but not necessary...you'd need two bucket coolers to have an effect on such a large hexayurt.

Make sure that UHaul isn't going to cancel on you because they know you're going to the playa. It's happened to a lot of people here.

Don't forget to bring an excessive amount of tie-down hardware.

[Choller]

If you can actually get four people to focus on it, a day is feasible. I did an H12 in a day and a half, by myself, semifolding and foil-covered hinges. Make sure EVERYTHING else is done ahead of time, so you can focus on your shelter.

I wouldn't go less than 1.5" thick, especially with the stretch design. Windows and crossbreeze are needed during the day. There are some neat 200mm (big!) computer case fans that will move a good amount of air pretty quietly off a 12V car battery. A swamp cooler is nice but not necessary...you'd need two bucket coolers to have an effect on such a large hexayurt.

Make sure that UHaul isn't going to cancel on you because they know you're going to the playa. It's happened to a lot of people here.

Don't forget to bring an excessive amount of tie-down hardware.

Thank you Maladroit, I think it's indeed wiser to go for 1.5" sheets. Furthermore I think we're going to go with one or two Endless Breeze fans and some cross winding. Do you think one deep cycle battery will manage? We will bring jumper cables and run the car engine for a hour or so each day to charge it.

I recall that it's better to have the windows in different height in order to get the maximum cooling effect. Should the windward side window be lower than then leeward side, so cool air comes in and the hot air higher up is blown out?

Should I be worried about Uhaul trucks running out like the RV's do? We'll be renting it in LA.

[Canoe]

... -I want to built a 8' + 6' Stretch Hexayurt with the following dimensions: 20 x 13 with 6' walls). We will be sleeping in it with the 4 possibly 5 of us. I haven't read about anyone building one of these so I'm wondering if you have any advice on this design?

You're going to have a large wind load.

• viewtopic.php?f=277&t=65276
• Get the 6" wide 220 lbs. bi-filament tape.
  • Stronger for higher wind loads,
  • more gripping area if you can't get 100% of the dust off the panel surfaces (do wipe the release agent & fingerprints off of the panels), and
  • it's not significant to the final yurt strength if you get the tape misaligned slightly so it's not exactly equal on both sides of a joint.
• Pay attention to how to do your anchor points - your wind loads are taken to the ground through them.
• "Tent Pegs" I'd recommend Figjam's Lag Bolt anchors - large size. viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68063&p=989983&hi ... lt#p989983, and then search for size recommendation

> would you suggest building a swamp cooler or go easy and get a Gen with A/C? I haven't gotten to the "Cooling your tent or Van" in regards to that so my apologies.

• Many are perfectly comfortable without a swamp-cooler or A/C. You can always spray-bottle mist some water up onto the air for an immediate burst of cool. Air the yurt out when it gets hot again (to get ride of the hot humid air), then close up and mist again.
• But, yes, I'd go with a DIY swamp cooler. Cools while also filtering dust out of the air, and you get moist air to breath. More relief.
• One of the box designs.
  As you don't have time to mess around, stick to one of the proven designs and don't deviate unless you absolutely have to.
  (start at the end of the threads, where the latest updates are) The unicooler can sit on the inside of the wall, but won't provide as much cool air as the design with a filter on three sides.
  I believe, but check with Figjam on that thread, that only one box cooler will be needed.
• Use the Endless Breeze fan. Huge air flow, low power usage, and low noise.
  With the large Costco deep cycle battery, and following the design, you shouldn't need to recharge during the week (possibly once if you use it a lot).
• While the swamp cooler runs, it needs an exhaust vent to be open somewhere else in the hexahurt. NOT in the roof. Pick somewhere on a wall, seal wall openings with the foil tape as usual, so you're not breathing the wall particles or MOOPing them.
  A down-turn elbow on the outside, taped to the wall, means rain can't come in and it's hard for hot dusty air to blow in.
  If you run a duct from that vent up to near the peak of the roof on the inside, then when the Endless Breeze fan forces the cooled moist air into the yurt from the swamp-cooler, it will be the hottest air near the roof that is exhausted first, allowing the cooled air to pool nicely in the bottom of the yurt where you're resting/sleeping, and is also the quickest cool-down when you return from exploring BRC and turn the swamp-cooler back on (you don't need to leave it running while you're out - cool air is available in an instant and the yurt quickly cools).

Fans

• With a swamp-cooler, you won't need fans inside to blow air around. But if you go without a cooler, one Endless Breeze is plenty.
• Stay clear of case fans. Too much power used for the work they do. And their design isn't for blowing air around in the open. Can be inefficient and very noisy when used in the "open".
• Once If the outside air drops to lower temps than the air inside the yurt, have the Endless Breeze tight to a window, blowing out. Then cooler outside air is drawn in through every other open window, door or crack.
• The Endless Breeze has very low power use; don't expect to recharge much, if at all. An Endless Breeze and a pump in the swamp-cooler will usually provide all the cooling for the week off of one charge of the Costco deep cycle battery, so if you're just running the fan...

[Canoe]

Yes, but more importantly:

...Make sure that UHaul isn't going to cancel on you because they know you're going to the playa. It's happened to a lot of people here...

Should I be worried about Uhaul trucks running out like the RV's do? We'll be renting it in LA.

[Choller]

... -I want to built a 8' + 6' Stretch Hexayurt with the following dimensions: 20 x 13 with 6' walls). We will be sleeping in it with the 4 possibly 5 of us. I haven't read about anyone building one of these so I'm wondering if you have any advice on this design?

You're going to have a large wind load.

• viewtopic.php?f=277&t=65276
• Get the 6" wide 220 lbs. bi-filament tape.
  • Stronger for higher wind loads,
  • more gripping area if you can't get 100% of the dust off the panel surfaces (do wipe the release agent & fingerprints off of the panels), and
  • it's not significant to the final yurt strength if you get the tape misaligned slightly so it's not exactly equal on both sides of a joint.
• Pay attention to how to do your anchor points - your wind loads are taken to the ground through them.
• "Tent Pegs" I'd recommend Figjam's Lag Bolt anchors - large size. viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68063&p=989983&hi ... lt#p989983, and then search for size recommendation

> would you suggest building a swamp cooler or go easy and get a Gen with A/C? I haven't gotten to the "Cooling your tent or Van" in regards to that so my apologies.

• Many are perfectly comfortable without a swamp-cooler or A/C. You can always spray-bottle mist some water up onto the air for an immediate burst of cool. Air the yurt out when it gets hot again (to get ride of the hot humid air), then close up and mist again.
• But, yes, I'd go with a DIY swamp cooler. Cools while also filtering dust out of the air, and you get moist air to breath. More relief.
• One of the box designs.
  As you don't have time to mess around, stick to one of the proven designs and don't deviate unless you absolutely have to.
  (start at the end of the threads, where the latest updates are) The unicooler can sit on the inside of the wall, but won't provide as much cool air as the design with a filter on three sides.
  I believe, but check with Figjam on that thread, that only one box cooler will be needed.
• Use the Endless Breeze fan. Huge air flow, low power usage, and low noise.
  With the large Costco deep cycle battery, and following the design, you shouldn't need to recharge during the week (possibly once if you use it a lot).
• While the swamp cooler runs, it needs an exhaust vent to be open somewhere else in the hexahurt. NOT in the roof. Pick somewhere on a wall, seal wall openings with the foil tape as usual, so you're not breathing the wall particles or MOOPing them.
  A down-turn elbow on the outside, taped to the wall, means rain can't come in and it's hard for hot dusty air to blow in.
  If you run a duct from that vent up to near the peak of the roof on the inside, then when the Endless Breeze fan forces the cooled moist air into the yurt from the swamp-cooler, it will be the hottest air near the roof that is exhausted first, allowing the cooled air to pool nicely in the bottom of the yurt where you're resting/sleeping, and is also the quickest cool-down when you return from exploring BRC and turn the swamp-cooler back on (you don't need to leave it running while you're out - cool air is available in an instant and the yurt quickly cools).

Fans

• With a swamp-cooler, you won't need fans inside to blow air around. But if you go without a cooler, one Endless Breeze is plenty.
• Stay clear of case fans. Too much power used for the work they do. And their design isn't for blowing air around in the open. Can be inefficient and very noisy when used in the "open".
• Once If the outside air drops to lower temps than the air inside the yurt, have the Endless Breeze tight to a window, blowing out. Then cooler outside air is drawn in through every other open window, door or crack.
• The Endless Breeze has very low power use; don't expect to recharge much, if at all. An Endless Breeze and a pump in the swamp-cooler will usually provide all the cooling for the week off of one charge of the Costco deep cycle battery, so if you're just running the fan...

Thank you so much for the advice! We've managed to get 2 out of 4 tickets so the Burn is getting pretty close now! I'm gonna check into a swamp cooler / box now

[natpig]

i've been reading this chain and the more i read the more my dreams are shattering. like choller i'm traveling from overseas and rather than get an RV like my last burn (the only thing that tarnished my otherwise amazing experience), i had planned to go down the hexayurt route. we had planned to send one of our party ahead to arrive on the monday and construct our yurt before we arrived (the rest of us are restricted by flights/time off work etc). from the research i have done i think this might well be an impossible task. firstly obtaining the correct materials, secondly transporting them to the playa and thirdly building the hexayurt!

i realise its a wide net to cast but does anyone know of anyone that would be prepared to assist in any of the 3 problems above?

any help / suggestions appreciated

[dirty_ghost]

i've been reading this chain and the more i read the more my dreams are shattering. like choller i'm traveling from overseas and rather than get an RV like my last burn (the only thing that tarnished my otherwise amazing experience), i had planned to go down the hexayurt route. we had planned to send one of our party ahead to arrive on the monday and construct our yurt before we arrived (the rest of us are restricted by flights/time off work etc). from the research i have done i think this might well be an impossible task. firstly obtaining the correct materials, secondly transporting them to the playa and thirdly building the hexayurt!

i realise its a wide net to cast but does anyone know of anyone that would be prepared to assist in any of the 3 problems above?

any help / suggestions appreciated

There's a group called Black Rock Hexayurts that rents them: https://www.facebook.com/BlackRockHexayurts.

From making mine, you really need at least 2 people to do the prep work. A third helps but isn't necessary. It took us a solid weekend to get it ready, including purchasing materials, if that gives you some sense of feasibility.

[maladroit]

It's not going to be easy, hexayurts are a luxury for those who are able to rely on themselves for solutions to all of the above listed problems. It would be best to arrange some tents, anything that can fit inside your rental.

[keves]

Hey!

So, I've been contemplating a Hexayurt for this year. Last year was my first burn with an RV. This year we have the same (1984 oldass) RV, so getting things to the playa is easy. Sleeping inside it - not so much. The thing gets too hot at ~10am. Its also full of sunlight, noisy and dusty.

I'm kind of drooling on the thought of a yurt + swamp cooler. Dark, cool, with some humid air place sounds amazing.

I have began my research and the first order of business seems to be the panels. I am based in San Francisco and do not own a car, so will have to rent one to go pick the supplies...
So far the best thing I found was this: http://www.lowes.com/pd_15357-1278-2X48 ... facetInfo=
Insulfoam R-Tech 2-in x 4-ft x 8-ft Expanded Polystyrene Insulated Sheet

Seems a bit expensive but I guess thats the way it is - please correct me if I'm wrong. Would this do the job? Is it worth going the extra mile with 2" panels?

Thanks

[Canoe]

...Would this do the job?
Is it worth going the extra mile with 2" panels?

No. Not well.
It will not perform well heat/cooling wise. It doesn't have the shiny aluminum foil coating on the outside of the panel that is the Radiant Barrier that reflects away: sunlight (light & infrared), and heat that is radiated at the yurt from the sun-heated ground and the hot air. While the insulation properties help, it's the radiant barrier that's providing the majority of the benefit.

1" is fine for most hexahurts. As we can have high winds (40 is common; 75 mph isn't uncommon; record is 110 mph), Burners building larger hexahurts and hexahurts with taller walls, sometimes feel the need to upgrade to 1.5".

The best way to do anything for the playa, is to start with designs and materials that are Playa-Tested©)'(. Meaning that they have been used with success, preferably by many over different years, on the playa.

[keves]

Hm. I see. Thanks for that piece of info
Do you (or anyone else...) have any recommendation for the type of material that would fit the bill AND is available somewhere in SF/Bay area?
These things seem to be quite rare :/

Edit - happy to hear that I can get away with 1". I'm planning on this one: http://www.appropedia.org/Camp_Danger_H ... _Technique

[Canoe]

I'm on the other side of the continent and in another country. Perhaps someone from around there will post.
In the meantime, you can search this thread (google works better than eplaya search...) and see what has or hasn't worked on the playa.

You need the radiant barrier on at least one side (no ad text is better too - good luck with that) and the boards with the fibre re-enforcing are stronger. So that in 1"...
Do not miss the detail of taping all of the edges to seal them, with aluminum foil tape. You don't want to MOOP those fibres onto the playa, nor into your lungs all week, nor while cutting the wedges, doors, etc..

You have some reading to do.

[keves]

I sure do
Thanks!

[burner von braun]

Yep, hexayurts rock! But it is really important that you use boards that are made of a sturdy type of foam. Expanded styrene boards, especially those comprised of little tiny styrofoam beads compressed together will likely fail catastrophically. Look for boards made of polyisocyanurate, such as Tuff-R, Super Tuff-R, or R Max, reflective on at least one side. I was able to special order Super Tuff-R at my local big box store after having called around quite a bit. Not sure about your area. I suggest making a scale model out of cardboard or index cards before you start in on the real thing. Keep reading keves, and good luck with your yurt!

[keves]

Thanks
That sounds exactly like what I plan on doing, as soon as I nudge this horrible cold that I caught :/

[dirty_ghost]

Hm. I see. Thanks for that piece of info
Do you (or anyone else...) have any recommendation for the type of material that would fit the bill AND is available somewhere in SF/Bay area?
These things seem to be quite rare :/

Edit - happy to hear that I can get away with 1". I'm planning on this one: http://www.appropedia.org/Camp_Danger_H ... _Technique

I'm from the Bay Area, and last year it wasn't clear to me that the Lowes in SF had the panels you need. I was able to get mine at the Home Depot in East Palo Alto, they had the 1" R-Max with the shiny foil covering.

This is what I used: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-Th ... /100549260.

[maladroit]

I built a 2" wall, 1.5" roof hexayurt in the bay area last year, and it required going to three different Home Depots. I was about to buy a hexayurt on Craigslist but noticed that it was made of EPS foam instead of polyiso...unacceptable, my entire Burn would have consisted of chasing little white pellets all over the city.

[natpig]

i've been reading this chain and the more i read the more my dreams are shattering. like choller i'm traveling from overseas and rather than get an RV like my last burn (the only thing that tarnished my otherwise amazing experience), i had planned to go down the hexayurt route. we had planned to send one of our party ahead to arrive on the monday and construct our yurt before we arrived (the rest of us are restricted by flights/time off work etc). from the research i have done i think this might well be an impossible task. firstly obtaining the correct materials, secondly transporting them to the playa and thirdly building the hexayurt!

i realise its a wide net to cast but does anyone know of anyone that would be prepared to assist in any of the 3 problems above?

any help / suggestions appreciated

There's a group called Black Rock Hexayurts that rents them: https://www.facebook.com/BlackRockHexayurts.

From making mine, you really need at least 2 people to do the prep work. A third helps but isn't necessary. It took us a solid weekend to get it ready, including purchasing materials, if that gives you some sense of feasibility.

thanks for the suggestion (BlackRockHexayurts). unfortunately they have already reached their limit... it would have been ideal!

does anyone know anyone else that would be able to purchase the materials/transport to the playa and help one or two of us erect the hexayurts? there would compensation for any assistance, and as we are going back to the UK after BM, all materials would be gifted back to anyone that could provide what we needed.

thanks in advance 

also thanks everyone for amazing advice so far!

[maladroit]

The hexayurt building cannot be done on the playa, there is a lot of cutting and messy foam/fiberglass waste, and hours upon hours of taping and re-taping joints. So it's not a simple matter of asking someone to transport materials, it's asking several people for a couple days of solid work.

[Canoe]

The hexayurt building cannot be done on the playa, there is a lot of cutting and messy foam/fiberglass waste...

And if you do "cutting and messy foam/fiberglass waste" blowing around on the playa, you will not be well regarded, in fact very poorly regarded. And remember, BLM has the power to fine and to evict.

[natpig]

The hexayurt building cannot be done on the playa, there is a lot of cutting and messy foam/fiberglass waste, and hours upon hours of taping and re-taping joints. So it's not a simple matter of asking someone to transport materials, it's asking several people for a couple days of solid work.

i totally understand the task in hand, the very reason i'm asking is our group doesn't have time on american soil to source and prep the appropriate materials. the last time i went to BM i left no trace and plan to do the same, we are simply looking for some valuable man hours pre burn to help enhance our playa experience. PM me if have a spare weekend pre burn and have room to transport pre cut/taped yurt material... cheers

[keves]

After some more RTFMing, asking around and Googling I feel slightly more knowledgable. Even did this little experiment:


Now, I found this thing:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-Th ... /100549260#

Before I go and buy them - are these the right ones? The wiki clearly says "RMAX is the most common insulation board used at burning man-- the silver stuff that's tan in the middle." but other than having the panel picture show "RMAX" I can't tell if this is the real deal or not...

Thanks!

[maladroit]

Polyisocyanurate is the correct stuff. It'll be tan/yellow when you look at an edge, and feel more like florist's foam instead of styrofoam. You won't see any little beads smooshed together. If you've ever used Great Stuff foam, it's pretty much the same thing (but the insulation boards have fiberglass embedded for strength).

[keves]

Yey!
Thanks!

And now on to some cardboard experimenting with a Pentayurt configuration that was recommended by a friend

[keves]

Not much luck with the Pentayurt yet. How popular are Pentayurts? I like the fact that they require less panels (as we only got 11), weight less and are taller so I'm assuming there would be better cold/hot air separation.
Now, I was wondering - since we will likely be using a swamp cooler - do we need a hole/fan at the top of the yurt to give hot air a way out?
Is there any playa-approved solution for something like that? The biggest concern is being able to open/close that vent to prevent dust from entering. Whats the general consensus about this issue?

Thanks again (and again and again)

[GreyCoyote]

Keves: air in must equal air out. You need a vent, preferably near the top. Some folks use a hole with a small AC filter taped to it. It allows air exchange as the yurt pressures up, but keeps the dust mostly out.

[keves]

Is there any need for a fan to force-pull air out or thats unnecessary/over-engineering/wasteful?

[GreyCoyote]

If using a FIGJAM cooler, overkill and conterpeoductive. If no cooler, then it helps a bit.

[keves]

The plan is to use a FIGJAM cooler. Alright then - just a small hole with AC filter? Sounds doable
Bummer that the yurt will no longer be dark though...

[GreyCoyote]

Use a section of metal foil dryer duct. The inside end goes up inside near the very top, while the outside end exits lower through a wall with a filter taped over it. It will act as a light trap while still getting the hot uppermost air out.