Lag screws vs everything else...

[MacGlenver]

Hammer drill doesn't hammer down on anything, what it does do is drill with an "impact" feature when the going gets tough. They are called "hammer" due to said impact feature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammer_drill
A hammer drill, also known as a "rotary hammer", "roto-drill" or "hammering drill", (see also rotary drill) is a rotary drill with a hammering action. It is also the act of one person holding a regular drill while the other person "smacks" the back of the drill with a mallet, or light metal hammer. The hammering action provides a short, rapid hammer thrust to pulverize relatively brittle material and provide quicker drilling with less effort.

You say "impact", I say "hammer". The point is the "impact" force is applied downwards on a hammer drill, whereas the force from an impact driver is applied sideways (the important direction when screwing something). That all being said, I'm sure a hammer drill will work fine.

[Fan C]

Yeah My 1/2" drive impact gun makes real quick work of a 14" lag screw and anything on my old dodge diesel truck too.

[Jackass]

I don't need to look at wiki to know what this thing does. I've actually used one before, under "real" conditions.

[MacGlenver]

I don't need to look at wiki to know what this thing does. I've actually used one before, under "real" conditions.

As have I. Maybe a site dedicated to the difference between the two tools instead of a wiki? http://www.right-drill.com/

Not trying to be a dick just before heading to the playa, but wrong info is wrong info. Hammer drill hammers.

[maladroit]

Impact drivers just spin under no load, too.

The hammer drill probably won't apply any more torque than a standard drill, but also applies some hammering action. The impact driver will apply lots and lots and lots of torque.

They might both work great on the playa, but for different reasons.

The impact driver is a known winner, but I'd be interested in seeing if a hammer drill works just as well. Because hammer drills are a LOT cheaper for a quality brand than impact drivers.

[--Ever--]

Impact drivers just spin under no load, too.

The hammer drill probably won't apply any more torque than a standard drill, but also applies some hammering action. The impact driver will apply lots and lots and lots of torque.

They might both work great on the playa, but for different reasons.

The impact driver is a known winner, but I'd be interested in seeing if a hammer drill works just as well. Because hammer drills are a LOT cheaper for a quality brand than impact drivers.

This helps, thank you!

[FIGJAM]

Then I vote impact driver as you don't want something that brakes up the underplaya on install.

It's why the lags work so well in the first place.

[MacGlenver]

Then I vote impact driver as you don't want something that brakes up the underplaya on install.

It's why the lags work so well in the first place.

I had the same thought -- the more you pound on the playa, the weaker your hold will be.

[Hondovious]

[quote="FIGJAM"]Then I vote impact driver as you don't want something that brakes up the underplaya on install.

It's why the lags work so well in the first place. [/quote]

Precisely.. You don't nail in screws for a very good reason, because you lose the benefit of threads and just have nails. Actually worse than nails because you don't have as much surface contact for friction.

[Jackass]

That's it, I'm challenging all of you to a Lag -Off, followed by Feats of Strength, and to round it all off, some sort of wrestling match... We'll do it at Mr. Jam's camp! I'll bring the aluminum pole...

[BBadger]

That's it, I'm challenging all of you to a Lag -Off, followed by Feats of Strength, and to round it all off, some sort of wrestling match... We'll do it at Mr. Jam's camp! I'll bring the aluminum pole...

I'm more interested in the Airing of Grievances.

[Jackass]

Fuck it, you should come too. We can do this in grand fashion! Bring your own pole if you feel the need, and yes the airing of grievances would help bring closure to this tumultuous debate.
After that we could do some sort of flash-mob, people armed with various forms of driving apparatus, dressed as pandas, unicorns, rabbits, birds of flight and of course some shirtcockers to add balance. Hit up center camp, or district maybe duck pond...simultaneously driving lags into the playa and then backing them out.

[BBadger]

We'll set up a "Golden Lag Bolt" monument connecting East and West sides (or the equivalent on a clock) of the playa, complete with two steam locomotives. Everyone involved will be in the grainy black and white photograph that results. We'll also make sure that it doesn't depict any of the coolies who did the heavy lifting (impact driving).

[FIGJAM]

What debate???

Lags are right, everything else is wrong!!!

I could be wrong, but I'm not uncertain!!!!!!!!!!!

[maladroit]

FIGJAM the steel drivin' man

[MacGlenver]

Best plan evar

[CptSparkles]

What debate???

Lags are right, everything else is wrong!!!

I could be wrong, but I'm not uncertain!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to agree. I used lag bolts on my monkeyhut for the uprights and for the shade cloth this year. My campmates used rebar for their structures. I let them use a few left over bolts (I bought 50x of some 16" 3/8" bolts, so I had a few left over), and by the end of the first day of setup, there wasn't a single person in our camp of 15 that would side with rebar. Every person got the duty of pulling up a piece of rebar somewhere along the teardown phase, and everyone one of them in the end said, "Well, fuck rebar, we're using bolts next year."

FUCK REBAR.

YAY BOLTS.

FIGJAM, living up to his name...

To note, I brought some 24" drill bits with me, but never had to use them, and returned them to Harbor Freight today.

[Canoe]

And Lag-Bolts are safer than all rebar, excepting candy-cane's flush to the ground.

Lag-Bolts - Playa-Tested©)'(

[BBadger]

After using lag bolts on two carports through their feet, with chain links for internal cross-strapping, they are officially the BEST THING EVER.

They're even fun to drill in and out because it requires virtually no effort with an impact driver (get a deep socket).

[JayBobBoy]

I converted my camp over to 14" Lag Bolts this year with incredible results. The bolts holding our shade structure with the heaviest loads never even budged. Once they are screwed in flush with the surface, they are the best playa option available.

Thanks Figjam, it was great meeting you!

[Canoe]

...lag bolts on two carports through their feet, with chain links for internal cross-strapping...

Now that's cool!

[maladroit]

The lags spun in about 8 inches with almost no load, then slowed way down as the impact function took over for the last six inches. It seemed like more than enough as they couldn't be pulled out or wiggled free using our best rebar techniques. Six held down an H12 hexayurt solidly, five held down a PVC and parachute shade structure. It requires tools more complicated than a hammer and vise grips, but saved a fair amount of work. Extra screws were used to hold down tarps and such.

[--Ever--]

Post-burn check-in.

14in lag bolts worked great. I used the DeWalt cordless impact wrench + deep impact socket + 5 links of heavy duty high-vis chain + a washer + a ratchet strap.

Just remember to bring two batteries and the correct charger. For a moment I thought I had the wrong ones, and the final few inches of each bolt can bog down the wrench.

[FossaFerox]

100 14" lag bolts and 17 18" lag bolts later, they officially kick the shit out of rebar. Our Porter Cable impact driver threatened to give up the ghost halfway through set up but after letting it cool off for about an hour it finished the job soundly. We also discovered you can "tap" the screws a third of the way in and screw them in with a crescent wrench pretty easily. Next year we may just bring a small sledge and a speed wrench depending on our power setup (moving the car around so the inverter/50' extension cord could hit every corner of the camp was annoying).

I wasn't there when the shade structure came down (had a camp errand two blocks away that took way longer than it should have) but the look on the girl's face who got to use the driver to pop those bolts out really said it all.

So fast, so easy, so fun.

Fuck rebar.

[--Ever--]

I wasn't there when the shade structure came down (had a camp errand two blocks away that took way longer than it should have) but the look on the girl's face who got to use the driver to pop those bolts out really said it all.

They came out super quick. The first few inches took a moment, but then the threads kicked in and they almost literally seemed to pop out due to the high RPM on the wrench.

[lukewarmtofu]

Awesome, happy to see all the positive "lag news". Sadly I was not able to make the burn this year, so my box of lag screws will sit dormant in the closet till next year. I'm curious though, did anyone have any issues setting up with lags after the rain?

[FIGJAM]

Even with the heavy rain, the dense under playa wasn't affected.

[GreyCoyote]

I brought a 350 lb-ft AC-powered impact driver. Took about 15 seconds per 14 inch x 3/8 lag. And yes, that last 4 inches NEEDS some torque. Next year I will use thicker and longer lags. Not because these are weak, but because they will make good grounds for lightning protection!

[Papa Bear]

Chalk up at least one more convert to lag screws.

I used 20 18" x 1/2" screws and a Harbor Freight corded impact wrench to tie down the 16' diameter Mongolian-style yurt I built. The yurt turned out to be a tank in its own right, and the screws went in fast and held perfectly tight for the entire two weeks I was on site.

As it turned out, I didn't even need to remove the screws myself. A long-time DPW friend of mine came by who had heard of them but never used them, and he picked up the impact wrench and started spinning them out while I was packing up other things. He seemed to be seriously enjoying the process, his grin getting wider with each one he extracted. So perhaps we have two new converts.

[Vladar]

I also used 21 14" 3/4 lag screws to hold the legs of my carport to the playa. Then I used the Figjam chain link trick to run rope over the carport and secured it with leg screws right into the playa. I used a Ryobi cordless impact driver. Putting them in, I used 1 fully charged battery, and about 5 minutes worth of the second battery i brought. I brought the charger, so I wasn't worried about tear down.

I will be using these again for sure next year. I will be adding in some internal constraints next year to try and reduce the amount of sway my carport had. It wasn't much, but figured my setup could use some improvement.