Lag screws vs everything else...

[MacGlenver]

Mine worked flawlessly as usual this year as well. My porter cable impact driver never broke a sweat. We had a spare driver waiting unopened in the box just in case the other one crapped out.

Here are the only two issues I've found with lag screws, and neither is the fault of the screw itself:
1. I came upon one of my virgin campmates HAMMERING the lag screw into the ground. That was the one time during the burn that I kinda yelled at someone (more from shock than anything) -- he was just uneducated. He'd bent the screw somewhat from this technique. We will have to train our virgins better next year

2. Without a guy-line attached, the screws can be practically invisible. A few of our campmates had to leave early, so they took down their structures while I was away. We'd guyed down some of their shade with lag screws, but they didnt know how to remove the screws (or where the impact driver was stored). Therefore, they just removed the guy-lines and packed up, leaving the screws about 1/4" below the playa surface. Luckily we could see the outline of where the walls had been, and the depression in the playa where the screws were, but you couldn't really see them on their own. We checked very thoroughly, so I'm hopeful that we didn't leave any behind, but it would have been nice to have a little flag/string/something on them. Ideally they'd be taken out as you take down the structures, but with a big camp, this can be hard to guarantee. A metal detector would have been nice... though probably overkill

[Hondovious]

I brought a box of 50 3/8" - 14" long lag screws and converted almost my entire village of 170+ people. I spent a bunch of time at HD cutting 2 link pieces of chain to attach guy wires, but never actually used them. Still nice to have. We did get a fair amount of rust on them with the rain but they should be good for one more year. I have a Milwaukee Fuel M18 cordless impact, which at 125 ft lbs of torque is the highest end cordless you can get currently. My buddies Ridgid did the job, but mine did it much faster. I also found that for camps that put multiple carports together, it was pretty easy to get the holes to line up along the middle seams and use one lag screw for 2 poles. Nothing moved, not even a little.

[FIGJAM]

This was the 4th year for my lags and although they are rusty, they will probably last another ten years!!!

[spacetime]

Wish I had seen this when I was practicing my setup. Next year I'll be going lag wherever possible.

[Canoe]

You don't need them for the little tent (there are some nice pegs that will work), but ask figjam what length/size he'd recommend for your tarp shade structure.
viewtopic.php?f=277&t=70367#p1038033

[spacetime]

Oh, next year I'm upping my game. So these guys are going to be necessary.

But yes, I was surprised at how well well positioned pegs worked for my camp last week.

One thing I'm not totally clear on, it looks like the 2 link chain would slip off the lag screw really easily. I saw someone say you use a washer to widen the top of the screw and reduce the risk of the chain getting away. Is that standard? Someone else mentioned a weld, that's beyond most folks capability it seems like.

[FossaFerox]

If you use the right size chain you don't need a washer or a weld, it will fit over the threading but not over the head of the bolt.

My question is how other people's bolts fared during the burn. We were unpacking/cleaning stuff up today and a lot of out bolts seem to have suffered a bit of corrosion from their week underground in occasionally wet playa. We soaked them in vinegar and scrubbed them up a bit before putting them into storage, but none of them are the same. So far it looks like it's mostly just surface corrosion and we'll be reusing them all next year, but I'm wondering what the expected lifespan of one of these bolts might really be.

[tatonka]

mine got corroded last year , I soaked them in motor oil and used them this year no problem. They are just darker colored than the ones I didnt use.

[theCryptofishist]

A metal detector would have been nice... though probably overkill

But it could also have doubled as part of your lnt plan. Or one of those magnetic rakes.

[spacetime]

This may have come up before. Did you guys use hot-dipped galvanized stainless steel screws?

[FIGJAM]

This was the 4th year for my lags and although they are rusty, they will probably last another ten years!!!

I don't do anything to them except bang them together to knock the playa off after I unscrew them.

[SourPatch]

Another lag screw convert here.
Our camp used close to 100 screws+links sets, even for small tents. Thirteen screws held a 9x9x18 boxy structure during the windy days, no problem.
We had a Porter Cable cordless impact driver (http://www.lowes.com/pd_234058-70-PCCK6 ... facetInfo=). We definitely needed 2 batteries and a charger in order to get the entire camp done (installing and breaking down) but the machine had enough torque to easily drive the screws into the ground.
Thank you FigJam for improving so many people's burns.

[Fan C]

Lag screws did an awesome job holding my carport down. We were at 7:45 between K and L and had one RV partialy blocking the wind. Other wise I was getting the wind right off open playa. Damn thing didn't even wiggle. Tarps moved around a bit but the frame was rock solid.

[Hondovious]

One thing I'm not totally clear on, it looks like the 2 link chain would slip off the lag screw really easily. I saw someone say you use a washer to widen the top of the screw and reduce the risk of the chain getting away. Is that standard? Someone else mentioned a weld, that's beyond most folks capability it seems like.

Takes your lag screws to the big orange hadware store and you will find the right size chain that fits perfectly over the bolt but absolutely cannot get past the head. I added the washer as well to stop the bolt head from shearing on the chain link and I drove it in, possibly creating the worst moop ever, metal shavings.

[Joeln]

Guys at my camp just pounded the lags in with an engineer's hammer.
After the rain, even nails were cemented into the ground.

[TT120]

Guys at my camp just pounded the lags in with an engineer's hammer.
After the rain, even nails were cemented into the ground.

That's because the impact driver we were using died a horrible death after only 2 lags were driven. We had to pound them in after that. Still worked well though.

[maladroit]

Lags are kind of like escalators then? If an escalator stops working, it's still stairs...if your impact driver dies, your lags are still stakes.

[caffeineslinger]

Lag screws and two link chains for guy lines worked perfect for me too. And clean up is a snap.

I met a few people near me using the same. I'm sure I'll see more next year.

Thank you Figjam!

[FossaFerox]

Guys at my camp just pounded the lags in with an engineer's hammer.
After the rain, even nails were cemented into the ground.

That's because the impact driver we were using died a horrible death after only 2 lags were driven. We had to pound them in after that. Still worked well though.

For max holding power bring a speed wrench next time. You want to thread the bolts in for at least the final distance equal to the length of their threading rather than hammering the entire way. That way the ground the threading grips is intact.

[Elliot]

Have not read everything posted here lately, but can report that my corded DeWalt DW292R did a fine job with the 3/8 x 14 lags.

[MFOB]

My Makita 18V Compact Lithium-Ion Cordless Impact Driver Model XDT04RW drove 1/2" x 18" Lags fine as well. I thought it woul dhave a hard time, but it was more about battery juice after building art for 3 days that I was worried about. I drove 12 of them with 50% charge on the drill.

[BBadger]

Here are the only two issues I've found with lag screws, and neither is the fault of the screw itself:
1. I came upon one of my virgin campmates HAMMERING the lag screw into the ground. That was the one time during the burn that I kinda yelled at someone (more from shock than anything) -- he was just uneducated. He'd bent the screw somewhat from this technique. We will have to train our virgins better next year

A little tutorial is always helpful, mostly to inform people that you 1) don't need to push down on the impact driver once it has begun screwing in, 2) you use a drill, not the hammer for putting in lag screws, and 3) as below, you need to properly account for all lag screws in the ground, especially after rain storms.

Though I didn't have any lag screws directly in the playa (always on a carport foot), maybe I'll add some little flags or something to indicate the position of the lag screws. It may also help with keeping the washers on the lag screw as well.

[VultureChow]

So is the consensus that lag screws won't work as rebar replacement in monkey hut legs?

[maladroit]

So is the consensus that lag screws won't work as rebar replacement in monkey hut legs?

They would if they were about 3 feet long.

I think you'd have to manufacture some custom lag stakes. Cut off the threaded part of a lag screw, weld it onto the end of a 2' steel rod. Weld the hex shank to the other end of the rod. Or figure out how to grind a hex profile on the rod itself.

Potential problems: sucky weld breaks off inside the playa. Stake gets bent from monkeyhut poles and makes it impossible to unscrew.

[VultureChow]

There are 24" lags screws.

As it is, I only use 24" rebar with 12" in the ground.

The diameter is less than the 1" rebar I use, but if I'm not mistaken, It's a harder steel than rebar.

[maladroit]

It would probably work as well as your existing solution then. One foot of rebar inside the monkeyhut poles and one foot into the playa seems less than what most people use...I've done it with 1.5/1.5 and 2/2 but it was a larger hut.

I could imagine some sort of assembly with angle braces that would be screwed to the playa, and then the PVC slipped on.

[VultureChow]

If I'm not mistaken the 24 inch rebar was from the original instructions. All I have is your standard 10 x 12 monkey hut. Last year I accidentally brought 18 inch rebar, and with 10 inches below ground and 8 inches above I only had one come a little bit loose during the week. Still made me a bit nervous so this year I made sure to go with the 24 inch. I nearly killed Archie getting those things out.

I think fossa made the comment a few pages ago that because of the hex on top you wouldn't get the same full contact you do with the rebar.

With the flexibility of the hut and the additional tiedowns, I'm not seeing why this would not work.

[maladroit]

I still think the bending of the lag screws would be a problem. I had a lag screw that came bent a little, and it was impossible to get into the playa. You might be forced to use a socket wrench to remove the lags manually. Note that the original, successful implementation of lag screws calls for them to be screwed flush to the playa for holding and safety reasons, there are no side loads on the lag screw shaft itself.

This year, I also didn't get ANY bite into the playa until the last six inches (on a 14" lag screw). They would spin freely and could be pulled up by hand until that point. So in addition to the side-load / bending problem, you would need to realistically expect that the lag screws would only be gripping 4" of under-playa at best. It's probably a lot better after a wet winter.

[Meat Hunter]

I used 18"L x 1/2"D galvanized lag bolts which were drilled straight down to ground level with 2 links of chain and a washer under the head using a large Harbor Freight 1/2" electric drill and powered by my 2000i generator.

Where I was camped at the airport, the last 4" below the surface was as hard as concrete.

The first 14" went in just fine. During the last 4" my 1/2" drill would almost grind to a stop and my generator had a hard time supplying sufficient power to the drill.

After the 6th lag screw was set, the overload circuit breaker popped out on my generator and I had to wait until my generator cooled a bit before the pop-out circuit breaker would reset. This stop and go continued until all 12 lag bolts were set.

To make the lag bolts go the last 4" in a bit easier, when I felt the drill almost stop turning, I reversed the drill, came out of the hole a bit and took several running starts for the last 4".

Removing the first 4" was almost as difficult.

I am now a total believer in lag bolts. Drilling in lag bolts s much-much-much easier than swinging and hammer and driving in & pulling out rebar

I do believe that every guy line would have broken and my whole camp would have blown away before any one of my lag bolts would have pulled out.

Lag bolts for President -----

[The Rod]

Lag bolts for the win! We had a variety of drills and impact drivers, all worked just fine. We guyed our 16 foot tall tower with HD ratchet straps and lag bolts, didn't budge.

Towards the end of set up I was grabbing random people off the street and having them drive a few bolts in just to see their minds get blown.

possibly creating the worst moop ever, metal shavings.

Not to advocate creating moop, but steel shavings are pretty harmless moop, the first good rain and they'll rust into almost nothing. Plastics are the real bitch. Ever watched the DPW's grinding performances? Metal shavings everywhere...