New burners: Being in a camp / getting involved

[ygmir]

and then..........

[Token]

Some new burners think they need to have costumes to wear. Sure, costumes are awesome. But you don't need to wear one to be a burner.

So you wore one and it was great. Awesome, glad to hear it. I've done it myself.
But things are just fine when you don't wear one.

Oh boy, the shit's gonna hit the fan now.

Look out, if it gets bad enough, I might go and say something about whether you need to do drugs out there!

Fuck Skipper, that silly hat and boat sure look like a costume to me.

Your truly,

Little Buddy

[GreyCoyote]

Some new burners think they need to have costumes to wear. Sure, costumes are awesome. But you don't need to wear one to be a burner.

So you wore one and it was great. Awesome, glad to hear it. I've done it myself.
But things are just fine when you don't wear one.

Oh boy, the shit's gonna hit the fan now.

Look out, if it gets bad enough, I might go and say something about whether you need to do drugs out there!

Fuck Skipper, that silly hat and boat sure look like a costume to me.

Your truly,

Little Buddy

I was REALLY trying to stay out of this thread, but Tokens comment nearly made me spot myself.

Well played, both of you!!!

[Captain Goddammit]

That's not a costume. It's a uniform.

[GreyCoyote]

That's not a costume. It's a uniform.

Capt: Let me do the math for ya: A desert. A man. A boat. Thats either one heck of a costume or you are fucking Noah! (Laughing wildly).

Edited to add: "...we're gonna need a bigger boat..."

[Captain Goddammit]

What kind of maths are those?

[mgb327]

.

[ygmir]

That's not a costume. It's a uniform.

Capt: Let me do the math for ya: A desert. A man. A boat. Thats either one heck of a costume or you are fucking Noah! (Laughing wildly).

Edited to add: "...we're gonna need a bigger boat..."

this has great potential for humor............

[Jovankat]

I've been a bit busy in the last few days so please forgive the giant catch up post...
You didn't think you'd shut me up did you?

Oh my dear JK, but BM IS one size fits all. Anything you can dream up, you can either make happen or find in this One place. But that is not the point.

Not true at all. Some folks are day time animals at the burn and keep to their regular sleep patterns while others stay up all night and sleep all day. Some folk spend the week meeting people and making new friends while others see BM as a chance to catch with old friends once a year. Some folk love to dance at sound camps, others have been going for years and have never visited a sound camp. For some it's all about bar hoping from one camp to the next, others burn sober.

There is only one Black Rock City but there's so much going on and so many ways to experience it that people's experiences can vary dramatically. My main point in all this is; let's be a bit more understanding of that potential for different experience and let's encourage new burners to think about how they want to experience things, what will work best for them and what kind of burner they want to become.

You know, for someone not shy calling others a dick, you sure don't seem to be able to take it after you dish it.

I said you were being a dick, it's not quite the same as saying you are a dick. And if the captain had criticised how I was arguing or the substance of my arguments that would have been one thing. Suggesting I'm a straight up universally unlikeable person on the other hand is going a lot further than that. It's also provably untrue. I may not be everyone's cup of tea but I never claimed to be and as the saying goes; I'd rather be someone's shot of whiskey.

BM has several participant trends: aging, virgin, fly-in/international; all represented on ePlaya. If the BMORG 100 Year Plan is to succeed, we need to bring people in their 20s in in a way they become aging participants, orient virgins on all manner of burner culture and good behavior, and finally gracefully incorporate fly-in participants - that includes survival and an experience that results in them becoming BM messiahs in their remote-from-Nevada locations.

Some many-year burners have built up huge supplies for the event: RV, kitchen, costumes, generators, storage organizers, artwork, camp infrastructure, tech items, chairs, playa bike, grills, coolers, MV's even. Their point of view is going to be different than a virgin, but only a trust fund or independently wealthy virgin can duplicate that and transport that solo.

Absolutely! I know we've got some hardcore DIYers here (seriously people call them "FIGJAM coolers"!) but the reality is for the bulk first timers radical self reliance amounts to "buy a shittonne of crap" which is really not ideal in a whole bunch of ways.

In my view, bad festival behavior (MOOP and unwanted sexual behavior) and lack of tight knit community reinforcing the culture, for virgins in person before the event, and extending throughout the year and beyond is a greater threat to the event than how much stuff people bring solo to survive in the wilderness. Of course, from the American economic view, "buy more stuffs" is the way to go. (Preferably imported from other country stuff)

Yep. Theme camps have to detail how they're going to acculturate new burners in their application. Obviously there are some new burners who jump in the deep end and read all the things, watch all the videos and post here but a lot of new virgins don't realise that Burning Man is not just like any old music festival. If camps that take on virgins do their jobs properly hopefully these virgins will be exposed to a bunch of the ideas of burning man that they might not otherwise get until they arrive.

More importantly -

Every new ePlaya poster we discourage by attacks is a burner who quits ePlaya after a few posts. They could be a potential convert. Frequent poster. Share their experiences. Personally, I enjoy the messianic zeal of the 0-a few year burners!

How to win friends and influence people, we could improve on ePlaya!

What I find super strange about this whole thing is new burners who post about wanting a camp to join get questioned about why they think they need to join a camp, what they're hoping to get out of joining a camp and actively encouraged not to join a camp but there are heaps of threads of camps advertising for members and no one ever seems to ask them why they need new folk, why they'd want some random strangers camping with them, potentially bringing drama into camp or how they acculturate their new campers. And no one is telling them not to allow virgins to join their camps. I find that really strange.

A lovely poem

<3 <3 <3

[Bless]

What I find super strange about this whole thing is new burners who post about wanting a camp... but there are heaps of threads of camps advertising for members

If only there were a way to link people looking for a camp to join with people looking for new camp members to join their camp. Like, a message board or something like that. On the Internets, no less!

...oh, techmology, you're so confusing sometimes.

[Bless]

Oh my dear JK, but BM IS one size fits all. Anything you can dream up, you can either make happen or find in this One place. But that is not the point.

JK, don't let them troll you too hard.

[trilobyte]

For what it's worth, I didn't read the Captain's initial post as telling people what to do at all. He led off by saying he's been going for years and wanted to share some of his inside perspective. On that note, I think taking the time to point out that you don't need to join a camp is excellent advice. Over the last few years as the population has risen dramatically, it seems that a rapidly growing number of people are under some kind of impression that they have to find a camp to join. We see more and more "where do I camp?" threads, people who seem to think that the only way to experience the event is through some kind of amenity-laden adventure to the point where they're willing to fork over spendy dues to complete strangers. His post struck me less as telling people they were doing it wrong and more as encouraging people to be radically self reliant and consider that they can make it happen on their own.

Jumping down someone's throat because they suggest or advocate a different kind of camping experience seems inappropriate. Burning Man is one-size-fits-all (as Token suggested) in that it's one big-ass city that fits all of it in. It's also a city of infinitely different sizes (there are as many different ways to burn as there are burners). Solo campers, placed and non-placed camps (for new people reading this, placed camps are those who've submitted a questionnaire in hopes of being placed on the city map, non-placed camps are the ones that did not do that... but ANYBODY can form their own theme camp), and other different kinds of configurations.... they all work. Every year, thousands of people camp in all the different ways imaginable and most of them have a great time. Some don't, so it's worth giving some considerations to different types and find something that you think will work best for you.

Jovankat, I believe that the issue is that in a community that values the idea of radical self reliance, someone making the choice not to read the boards or look through the wealth of information that's available online to find a camp that interests them and instead posting a "where do I camp?" thread is decidedly not very self-reliant. Consequentially, the people who post those threads (especially ones with a laundry list of desired amenities) tend to get a lot of snarky replies, as well as advice telling people to do some looking around or to form up their own camps. So long as the snarky replies stay on the side of good natured sarcasm and not mean-spirited attacks (that kind of abuse should be flagged), I'm fine with it. This is Burning Man, if you're looking for people to take you by the hand and do everything for you or treat you like a baby, you've come to the wrong place. Then again, there's probably a baby fetish camp out there somewhere

Ygmir, thanks for that repost. Great stuff, and a great place to put it.

Trying to get back to the original subject, YES - NEW BURNERS, YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE IN A CAMP! Sure you can join one, but you can also figure out what you need. The survival guide and first timer's guide are essential reading for everyone at least once, and then the best way to use this message board and connect with this community is as a resource to help you figure things out. That's not to say joining a camp is bad, it's just not required. As with many things in life, you get more from Burning Man based on what you put into it, so rather than looking for a laundry list of things a camp can do for you, consider the ways that you can participate or be an integral part of a prospective camp.

[Bless]

Different strokes for different folks.

I've only ever made one real friend at burning man who was someone I just randomly met, not someone in my camp or someone I already knew from here, and even then I met him at a party hosted by my camp from the previous year. I'm pretty sure the same is true for my significant other. Plus some people just like to be a part of something with a little structure. Personally there is no way in the world I ever would have gone to Burning Man solo, know there are lot of groups of folk looking for camps who are being told "just be a camp yourselves" and going solo isn't the same as being with a group of friends but still I think there are people for whom it is the right choice. I agree there's too much just assuming its what you have to do but it's not *wrong* the way this thread is making it sound.

JK, I've been meaning to tell you this a while: but I totally agree with most of what said.

I certainly would never have attended my first burn without the support of a large group of close and like-minded friends. That doesn't mean that all virgins have to join a huge theme camp or plug n play to enjoy their fist year. I ceratainly didn't. On the contrary.

At the risk of stating the obvious, there is a generational divide between some of the original burners wanting to do their things and a new batch of burners looking for camps and communities to join. Is one group burnier the the other? Abolutely right.

[Captain Goddammit]

iIf the group that believes you should show up at Burning Man ready and able to take care of yourself is "burnier than thou", what shall we call the new group of burners who can't handle that?
There's really only "paying tourist" or "freeloader" left to choose from.

This is basic shit in the event's Survival Guide. It's one of the Ten Principals.

[skbz]

Interesting read, thanks.

I'm very much a Newbie here but coming this year.

As one of your dreaded international virgins, I'd like to apologise for coming to your fantastic pinic in the desert.

I do do my research and planning, (forums not my thing much, but this thread..) I was very quick to concrete 'Self Reliance' into all plans from the moment I started and don't plan to buy 'all sorts of shit' to eat either. .

'Burnier Than though' - don't worry, all festivals over 20 years old get this.... !! I'm not a festval virgin and I'm not new to the US either, or camping. Just Burning Man.

As a result of this thread, we won't be joining a camp.

Reading this helped a lot.. its actually a relief. I now realise that I can use the time and worry of joining a camp to make sure we're better prepared in the first place, so yeah THANKS !
I was indeed under the wrong impression, that joining a camp was the best thing to do, it might not be for us this time around.
Just thought I'd stop by and say that, cos some if us virgins read this stuff you know...

I'll be counting the posts before I leave

[Captain Goddammit]

A lot of people took what I said the wrong way; there's nothing wrong with joining a camp. I'm in one myself.
All I was saying was that if you don't join someone else's pre-existing camp, you'll be fine. You'll meet people, make friends, and get involved in things - if you want to. Maybe you'll find a camp that you mesh well with and end up joining them. Maybe others will want to camp with YOU!

A whole lot of burners spend almost no time hanging around their own camp anyway. Camp is where we go to eat and pass out!
Theme camp or not, it's all great.

[silas thatcher]

as a burgin, i initially figured that we were going to do this solo... so, i read and read, asked a few questions, read more, thought about it, planned it all out, thought again, corrected any mis-thoughts, read some more....

but..... then we ran into some people from pandora's fix it shop and lounge at interfuse and decided to go ahead and join them.... (still have to pay camp dues, though)

the pros .... they already have a solar power set up, a self serve kitchen, a lounge and a few extras that we don't have to figure in if we were solo...

the cons.... it would be extremely bad form on our part to not help out with the fix it shop, setting up and/or tearing down, contributing to the camp in other ways, so in short, maybe a lot more work for us...

our days would not belong to us, we do have to help run the camp to our ability, but, we will still get time off, so to speak...

so for us, a little more work, but in trade for accommodations that we would have to provide our selves... so much for being self sufficient, huh ?? lol so it is a toss up...

i never felt the need to join a camp... but, now, i know people that will be there, have interacted and had fun !! so , NO , you do not need to join a camp... it may be the best decision we made, it may be the worse, just simply because people and their innate problems are involved... maybe they may think that we are @ssholes and will kindly invite us NOT to return next year... who knows ??

[skbz]

Nope, my minds made up, virgins and camps, not good, fuhb I can cope quite handsomley thankyou, despite living on another continent. No no no... stuff your camps
(until i find home )

[Jovankat]

A lot of people took what I said the wrong way; there's nothing wrong with joining a camp.

If the group that believes you should show up at Burning Man ready and able to take care of yourself is "burnier than thou", what shall we call the new group of burners who can't handle that?
There's really only "paying tourist" or "freeloader" left to choose from.

This is basic shit in the event's Survival Guide. It's one of the Ten Principals.

No wonder people are confused. Wanting to join a camp doesn't mean you can't handle looking after yourself. Like I said before there are lots of reasons to join a camp. Hell you're in a camp and you're self sufficient right? Why is it when you do it it's fine but you automatically assume anyone else who is doing it is a "paying tourist" or "freeloader" ? This is a perfect example of I what I mean when I say you're ignoring shades of grey and painting everything as black and white.

[spacetime]

I did a solo full-week burn last year as a birgin.

I was intimidated by online people at first, because most beginner guides talk about how hard Burning Man is. There is also anti-noob snark you must see past.

First thing I did was try to get into a friend's camp and I was rejected! Because I was a noob and because I was planning late.

I felt a bit needy as a beginner and thought I was screwed, but then I just decided to do it on my own. Funny thing was as soon as I stated out loud to anyone that I was goign to do it on my own the world opened up to me. I had 3 camps invite me after I said I was going solo. I didn't join any of em!

There wasn't much time, and I didn't know anyone! But I did it anyway.

I am an unusually resourceful and independent person. So once I started spending time (and money) on figuring out camping at BM, it wasn't so bad to make my own camp.

I got really into it over a very short period of time, and I applied previous skills from music festival camping and other stuff. I used the boards here heavily.

In that way, I made my way. And I think that figuring your own stuff out is part of what makes you a good burner. You care enough to individually do your own thing. You may care enough to coordinate with multiple people to all do your own thing.

I went to the East bay burner meetup last weekend and saw a bunch of theme camps present their options.

I met a group of four birgins there and they had a fifth person not present who went last year. That one-year vet did not want to lead them and so they were specifically looking for a camp. They were like wee babes. The best thing I could think of them was that they were in the right place and probably would be great theme camp helpers. But also that if they spent this much time thinking about running their own camp, they would do just as well or even better!

I considered extolling the virtues of figuring it out on their own, spending the time practicing their setup, interacting with people on the baords.

But I didn't, because they seemed focused on camps. Also, it seems like scaled camps kind of need wrote labor to operate. They would figure it out on their own.

If BM is going to get much bigger, not everyone is going to be able to obey self reliant principles (if they require holistic BM-specific survival capabilities). They need someone to tell them where their tent goes, when they need to do camp work and what it is, etc. Self-reliance is a spectrum as illustrated in defaultia every day.

I don't know if this is something to fear or accept or both. Noobs joining functional solid camps like Sextant seem much better placed than some plug and play. At least they have to work!

I get why most people who do throw themselves at BM, particularly regulars here on eplaya, aren't psyched for advocating noobs to join theme camps.

The better thing will always be to take the time to do your own research and go out into the city and learn what it means. It just may not be possible or accessible to a lot of folks who are used to signals of scaled infrastructure that camp dues provide.

I don't think many people dive into threads on eplaya.

I see some wisdom of conserving interaction here to train noobs to build the future of BM, not show up, pay dues and wash dishes.

I also think it is intimidating for complete noobs to figure it out on their own. In part because the virtues and (relative) ease of "independent camping" doesn't get as much coverage as it could.

[Ratty]

Well put Spacetime. You and I do different versions of camping alone. You are minimalist. K.I.S.S. I come in my Hoarder Mobile and try to lighten my load all week. We both appreciate the freedom that we gain by not joining up. There were 8 or 10 camps at that speed dating event. 80% had showers. Most of them charged over $200 and that didn't always include a meal. Some were free. I don't know what the organizers do with all those bodies. Playa Bike repair has 100 campers and is looking for more!?

Some of the camps had a great central theme. If it's your thing then you'll fit right in. Others were digging their toes in the dirt trying to find a theme. I loved the autism camp. I really want to know how that goes. Most of the people were brand spankin new but the Rangers were there recruiting. Nope, sorry, Nope,sorry. Nope, sorry. Come back next year. The clothing xchange is always my favorite. They don't need anything. That looks great on you. Please, please take it. I enjoyed myself just seeing burner faces and talking to 1st timers. I didn't try to dissuade anyone from group camping. They looked scared. You know, instead of joining a camp you can just get a 'playa Mom' and that way you won't be afraid of anything.

[simplyallure]

My boyfriend and I will be virgins This year, but both have friends who have gone to burning man year after year. When we first made plans to make our way from nj to burning man, we had anticipated joining our friends and setting up camp together. Unfortunately, all of the plans fell apart, and now it is just the two of us going alone. We are still so excited, but the advice we were given from every friend who's been there was "you have to find a camp to join, preferably a big one." One friend even told us that he couldn't imagine where you would camp if you were not part of a group.

So, needless to say, we spent hours searching through forums and browsing websites trying to find a camp that seemed like a good fit for us. Every camp we were interested in had been full or didn't respond to our random emails (I don't blame them). Ultimately, we have just started talking about not joining a theme camp. We already are planning on being self reliant. We have planned our shade, food, supplies, etc. We are not high maintenance or expecting much from joining a camp. So why not go it solo and have the freedom to explore our first burning man on our own terms.

With that now on our minds, we have no idea what to expect when we arrive. Will we be able to find space to camp? Will it be out in the middle of nowhere? How much time will we need to spend searching for a spot?

We are making all of our lists, what to pack, what to ship, what to buy in Reno. What do we 100% need. It's fun to plan this stuff and I enjoy being prepared.

One of our only concerns about going solo is that we really want to get involved, be part of the community and volunteer our skills. We are not afraid to work. We enjoy it. But we want to be a part of something that we feel excited to work on and contribute to. If we arrive to the burn opened minded and ask people if they need help and offer a hand, isn't that the best way to get involved in something??

I learned a lot from this thread and the advice given helps me feel confident that we are making a good decision.

Thanks! Stine

[some seeing eye]

There are thousands of Burners in your area. Ask your friends who aren't going to introduce you to their burner friends.

http://regionals.burningman.org/regiona ... ew-jersey/
http://regionals.burningman.org/regiona ... /new-york/

Join every social media, mailing list, find out where they meet for beers, invite them out to meet you. Meet them get to know them because you want to know them throughout the year. Mention the looking for a camp last if the conversation is going well.

[FIGJAM]

Zoom in and pick your spot!!!

http://www.gigapan.com/gigapans/115712

[LowePro]

@Stine Allure, there are lots of discussions about what to expect when you arrive at the Playa--a quick summary: It depends on when you arrive. It will be pretty crowded by opening day due to the camps that get in early to set up. Sunday and Monday will be frenzied. Tuesday/Wed might be a bit calmer, but still will be busy.
You will prob be tired and cranky. Be patient while you look for a spot. It may be dark. Have lights, drinks, snacks available (not buried in the trunk).

Study the City map. Areas further from the center of the City will have more open space. Further in the center will be crowded. If you are a small group, you will have better luck finding a spot to wedge into. Check the city map and don't camp in the purple zones or areas that are flagged or roped off (unless you ask someone first)

Come up with a plan for your entry. How close to you want to be and approx Left or right side? There is a fork in the road right after the entry and you ought to have an idea which way you want to turn. VEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRY roughly speaking, the left (west) side of the city is a bit more party/ravey/dancey and the right side is a bit more gritty/hippie but that's a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE generalization. There are all types of people everywhere. The 5:00 area can be a quieter/family friendly zone. Do you want to be close to a portapotty?

Above all, relax, you will have a fine time no matter where you end up. When you see a spot, park and check it out, if it looks to good to be true, ask around if it's part of a reserved space. Later in the week it's less of an issue but on Sunday/Monday you might see an open area that's actually part of an Art Camp or Theme Camp and they're still setting up.

[simplyallure]

Great advice! Since we just made the decision to stop researching theme camps and start planning to go solo, I am going to read through past discussions about arrival and setting up camp. Your summary is very helpful. Thank you!

@Stine Allure, there are lots of discussions about what to expect when you arrive at the Playa--a quick summary: It depends on when you arrive. It will be pretty crowded by opening day due to the camps that get in early to set up. Sunday and Monday will be frenzied. Tuesday/Wed might be a bit calmer, but still will be busy.
You will prob be tired and cranky. Be patient while you look for a spot. It may be dark. Have lights, drinks, snacks available (not buried in the trunk).

Study the City map. Areas further from the center of the City will have more open space. Further in the center will be crowded. If you are a small group, you will have better luck finding a spot to wedge into. Check the city map and don't camp in the purple zones or areas that are flagged or roped off (unless you ask someone first)

Come up with a plan for your entry. How close to you want to be and approx Left or right side? There is a fork in the road right after the entry and you ought to have an idea which way you want to turn. VEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRY roughly speaking, the left (west) side of the city is a bit more party/ravey/dancey and the right side is a bit more gritty/hippie but that's a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE generalization. There are all types of people everywhere. The 5:00 area can be a quieter/family friendly zone. Do you want to be close to a portapotty?

Above all, relax, you will have a fine time no matter where you end up. When you see a spot, park and check it out, if it looks to good to be true, ask around if it's part of a reserved space. Later in the week it's less of an issue but on Sunday/Monday you might see an open area that's actually part of an Art Camp or Theme Camp and they're still setting up.

[The Rod]

A lot of people took what I said the wrong way;

Here's why: The language that your using is very linear and black and white. Right and wrong. For many folks, including me and others, especially among the burner crowd, the kind of authoritative language where some guy is telling me what is right and wrong about my burning man experience is kind of a trigger.

And Captain, goshdarnit I really do you think you are an incredibly helpful and valuable member of Eplaya, you post with some really good info and tips, but goddamnit sometimes you do it with such a "I know better than you" air that can be pretty fucking abrasive. A line between 'snark' and assholery does exist.


The second year burners are here and they do things differently then you jaded old farts. If you're nice to them they might understand that you're just trying to help. Otherwise they're not gonna listen to your wisdom and they'll end up bringing drugs and glass bottled beer to the event.

Every new ePlaya poster we discourage by attacks is a burner who quits ePlaya after a few posts. They could be a potential convert. Frequent poster. Share their experiences. Personally, I enjoy the messianic zeal of the 0-a few year burners!

How to win friends and influence people, we could improve on ePlaya!

This one right here.^

[Jovankat]

A lot of people took what I said the wrong way;

Here's why: The language that your using is very linear and black and white. Right and wrong. For many folks, including me and others, especially among the burner crowd, the kind of authoritative language where some guy is telling me what is right and wrong about my burning man experience is kind of a trigger.

Exactly.

[Token]

Fuck me sideways!

Everyone is WRONG!

Just look at the new map. 93% is theme camps. The hat has spoken and you must all comply!

So quit your yammering and join a theme camp right away.

Take a reacharround, stroke a shaft, suck a lollipop! Whatever it takes!

We are now the official cult of Theme Camps!

Evolve!

[Elderberry]

But isn't it the theme camps that provide most of the big (and small) entertainment? The bars, art cars, art, entertainment, ice, rangers, etc.???? Aren't they all usually all dependant on a theme camp?