Lag screws vs everything else...

[Elliot]

Cleaning, and bundling with stretch wrap -- very nice!

With quite a few more of them, and also spikes for rugs, I toss mine into these dilapidated tool boxes, which averaged a dollar a piece at the local flee market. Most needed new hasps, but this solution was still a bargain.

[mattcamp]

Sharing another lag screw experience from this year....

For the main guy lines on our 26' tower we used 3x 1/2" x 24" lag screws on each line and heavy chain to link them together to a turnbuckle then to some 10'000lb rated straps on the windward side (and to 1/4" wire rope on the other 6 lines).

These worked fantastic even in the massive winds... we had some slight issues with the straps vibrating in the wind so attached some smaller orange ratchet straps to negate that.

No way those babies were going anywhere... The ranger who came around to do a structural inspection seemed to be impressed.

http://i.imgur.com/xcTiO7D.jpg
(apologies for terrible quality pic but seems it's the only one we got)

[Canoe]

... For the main guy lines on our 26' tower we used 3x 1/2" x 24" lag screws on each line and heavy chain to link them together to a turnbuckle then to some 10'000lb rated straps on the windward side (and to 1/4" wire rope on the other 6 lines)...

Seems a shame to have the chain parts so off line of the main load (due to their resulting angle), but given the huge amount of ground that lag-bolts pull out of, you pretty much have to if you want to maximize the benefit of the lag's strength with multi-anchors. The only real negative I see is the slack going into the line if one of the bolts/chains fail, but the chance of that happening should be awfully low. Solving that and you're into the auto-load-balancing vs. shared redundant anchor debate. I think the shared-redundant won out once everything was worked out and tested. For your setup, you'd have all three anchors largely or exactly in-line with their guy-line, each with a different length of chain. This gives: each anchor their own undisturbed and unshared ground to anchor in, nearly equal load on each anchor (with the chain length correct), minimal angle difference between the main guy line and each anchor chain: for less change and far less dynamic shock if the total load goes to two anchors from three anchors in a failure.

Cool photo to see.

[pretty_monster]

would it be a total fucking disaster if i used 12" bolts? i've got a 12x12 shade structure and i'm planning to put 2 at each corner (plus 4 - 8 regular tent stakes at the base of my structure that go through loops in the canopy cover.) i can hardly justify spending $50 - $80 on 8 14" bolts, let alone whatever ungodly price is charged for 18" bolts.

it was NOT, in fact, a total fucking disaster to use 12" bolts i used 6 bolts & 8 ropes to secure my shade structure and it was solid as a rock (THANK YOU FIGJAM FOR TEACHING ME THE TRUCKER'S HITCH). i pounded 'em in with a mallet and pulled 'em out with a hammer. easy peasy.

A++. will use again.

[maladroit]

i pounded 'em in with a mallet and pulled 'em out with a hammer. easy peasy.

Half the point of this thread is somehow missing from this description....

[pretty_monster]

i don't have power tools to bring and i wasn't going to buy 'em just for the occasion. when you live and burn as small as i do, every space-devouring single-use item purchase matters. i'm still young and spry enough to bang and pull 6 bolts.

AND 6 bolts take up way less space than 6 rebars. even if i don't use them in the most efficient way possible, saving that much extra space in a gear tote is *huge*.

[Ratty]

I like the way you think. My campmate wants lag screws. I want them too. I just can't face the power tool aspect yet. You would love the compact, Coleman propane lantern that I just got. It's so little. (Although the propane canisters are bulky).

[maladroit]

They aren't any better than tent stakes or big nails when they're just pounded in. Possibly worse, as they crumble the playa around the threads rather than wedging into the hole with lots of friction.

[DoctorIknow]

They aren't any better than tent stakes or big nails when they're just pounded in. Possibly worse, as they crumble the playa around the threads rather than wedging into the hole with lots of friction.

I hammer my lag screws in about 4 inches before "screwing" them in with the impact wrench, but if I was space and weight constrained in what I transport to the playa, I'd bring a long ratcheting 9/16 wrench (for the 14" lag screws) and screw them in by hand. I've seen others in this thread use the "T" shaped drivers, but packing one of those in a backpack would be a chore.

If one doesn't have a lot of lags to set, this could be an answer:

http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-85958- ... NCH+9%2F16

long wrench.JPG

[BBadger]

You'd want a ratchet + socket, not a wrench. Vertically lining that wrench over that tiny head throughout the entire process would be a total pain. Even with a ratchet, I'd probably just stick with pounding rebar if I didn't have a drill/impact driver.

[sparr]

Vertically lining that wrench over that tiny head throughout the entire process would be a total pain.

You use the other hand to hold the head of the bolt and the wrench aligned with each other, allowing it all to turn within your grip.

[BBadger]

Vertically lining that wrench over that tiny head throughout the entire process would be a total pain.

You use the other hand to hold the head of the bolt and the wrench aligned with each other, allowing it all to turn within your grip.

And your point is?

[sparr]

Vertically lining that wrench over that tiny head throughout the entire process would be a total pain.

You use the other hand to hold the head of the bolt and the wrench aligned with each other, allowing it all to turn within your grip.

And your point is?

That most people aren't good at using a wrench, and need some tips on how to avoid the wrench jaw slipping off the bolt head.

PS: If you want to get clever, you can use the thumb of the same hand to do it, but you lose leverage that way. Only good for the early twists.

[maladroit]

That most people aren't good at using a wrench, and need some tips on how to avoid the wrench jaw slipping off the bolt head.

PS: If you want to get clever, you can use the thumb of the same hand to do it, but you lose leverage that way. Only good for the early twists.

It's just way easier to use a socket wrench (even better with a foot-long extension). I took out 2-3 14" lags using a socket wrench this year and it was pretty easy.

Trying to get a box-end wrench below grade (because lags are usually screwed all the way down to the playa and then some) sounds horrible.

[maladroit]

The magnet Mjolnir hammer video going around is pretty cool, but a person could build a playa version by building an impact driver and lag screw into the hammer.

[Weebdog]

How about using a "cross bar" lug wrench. Lots of leverage and you can hold the top and spin the side arms until it got to hard. It would be handy if you had a flat tire too.

[Ratty]

You had me at 'crossbar'.

[BBadger]

For me, the main motivation for using lag-bolts in the first place is the fact that powertools makes setup and teardown a snap. Bending over a cross-bar to twist the lag-bolts into place sounds like a long and tiring process that has to be repeated twice (in and out). At least the pounded rebar pops out pretty quick with vise-grips or a crowbar.

[Meat Hunter]

After setting 12 ea. 1/2" x 18" lag bolts using a 1/2" drill in 2014, I just cannot for the life of me imagine someone having the physical strength to set lag bolts by hand - any means.

I suppose that I am trying to say is that those of you who set lag bolts manually have my undying admiration. It has to be absolutely and totally physically exhausting.

Oh, to be twenty again - if for nothing more than but for a moment or two. How about for twenty minutes? Yup. Twenty minutes would do quite nicely, thank you..... My wife, my girl friend, my mistress -- anyone of them would thank you.

[FIGJAM]

If I had to do lags by hand, I would pound them to within 5"s of being installed and then ratchet the last 5.

Still seems like a lot of work.

[maladroit]

With a socket wrench, better out than in I always say.

[FIGJAM]

Lags won the Golden Rebar awards..................so there's that.

[some seeing eye]

We have the Figjam Cooler. So should we call this the Figjam Golden Lag Screw?

Congratulations!

(There is also the Galaxy Monkey Hut, the Shiftpod Tent - what other playa things have proper names, or named after people? Especially things that catch on across camps and years. Why isn't the hexayurt named after the inventor?)

[lucky420]

I think because Vinny is humble that way ^^

[FIGJAM]

OK, I just watched "The Martian", and they seemed to have everything they needed for a successful mission.

But it would have been a lot easier if they had just brought along some LAG BOLTS!!!!!!!!!!!

[maladroit]

OK, I just watched "The Martian", and they seemed to have everything they needed for a successful mission.

But it would have been a lot easier if they had just brought along some LAG BOLTS!!!!!!!!!!!

The main story probably wouldn't have even happened! Just think about it FIGJAM, lag screws may someday actually be used on another planet because of your introduction of them to a large community.

[sadie]

Ok, so I am considering drinking the lag screw kool-aid.
HF has a 1/4" cordless impact driver on sale, and for a few dollars more there is a 1/2" cordless hammer driver.
Which one is my best bet?? I don't really know the difference between "impact" and "hammer" in drill/driver lingo.
In my reading through the thread, I think the 1/2" hammer driver but would appreciate experienced opinions.
I like the extra handle on the hammer driver...so maybe I won't twist my wrist during set up...

[mattcamp]

Ok, so I am considering drinking the lag screw kool-aid.
HF has a 1/4" cordless impact driver on sale, and for a few dollars more there is a 1/2" cordless hammer driver.
Which one is my best bet?? I don't really know the difference between "impact" and "hammer" in drill/driver lingo.
In my reading through the thread, I think the 1/2" hammer driver but would appreciate experienced opinions.
I like the extra handle on the hammer driver...so maybe I won't twist my wrist during set up...

You want an impact wrench.

An impact driver/wrench applies the "hammer" style action in a horizontal/circular manner. A hammer drill just applies this vertically which doesn't work anywhere near as well when driving a lag screw into the playa.

I haven't used the 1/4" cordless unit but I used the HF 1/2" AC unit last year to drive in over 100 lag screws (including several 1/2" x 24" big ones) just fine... we had to let the driver cool down half way through the 24" screws but overall it worked well.

When in doubt, over-engineer it.

[mattcamp]

Also, if you're searching on HF note that "impact driver" and "impact wrench" turn up different results.... the one I have is listed as the 1/2" Heavy Duty electric impact wrench.

[sadie]

Excellent.
Thank you.