Personal shade for tent, what works? (to buy, not build)

ziptie · Post by **ziptie** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:40 pm

From what I can tell from the official Tyvek website(s) and the rest of the internet, this stuff basically doesn't exist. I'm guessing it's a discontinued product. But I'll pepper the distributor with questions and see if I can get any answers. If that fails I'll call Dupont and see if they still have backstock lying around.

Stainless steel velcro? That sounds pretty intense. I myself am a huge fan of conductive (silvered) velcro--it's perfect for using for switches in wearable electronics applications.

ziptie · Post by **ziptie** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:54 am

Mystery solved! I was wrong--Reflektra isn't a discontinued product; it's actually manufactured by the Material Concepts people (they take Style 1460 UV soft structure Tyvek & metallize it). I should be getting a sample soon. (I hope that it's awesome!)

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:16 pm

I'm going to try to check it out myself.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:34 am

Radiant foil insulation was probably first used on the Lunar module, for weight reasons.
They used a gold mylar, I think actual gold.
The color is superior for infrared, I think.
They used 25 layers.
I think that was the only insulation in those extreme conditions.

It could be that the concept deserves more consideration for all types of insulation.

Free2B · Post by **Free2B** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:38 am

I got my order of reflectix, I got my bed sheets, I even got my mother on board with her sowing machine. I'm only wondering weather I should cover my tent so it's almost air-tight, as in to the ground from all sides with some kind'a "door" at tent's entrance which I could close. Or, just throw it over and let air wander in where it may? Common sense tells me air tight for conserving the cooler air, but ventilating during cooler hours. I saw the pics of that tent completely covered in reflectix. It's odd that he also had shade on top which he mentioned in the last pic on Flikr. He didn't explain that.

I was also thinking, if I don't get poles, I could tape a blow-up wheel/circle lifesaver that goes around the waist, or some other blow-up tape-able thing, to the top of my tent so when I throw the shade over there'll be some space between. Good idea?

Free2B · Post by **Free2B** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:41 am

P.S. Any good ideas for attaching the reflectix to bed sheets? I don't trust reflectix by itself. Glue, sow sporadically, tape, all of the above? Thanks

StevenGoodman · Post by **StevenGoodman** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:37 pm

Free2B wrote:P.S. Any good ideas for attaching the reflectix to bed sheets? I don't trust reflectix by itself. Glue, sow sporadically, tape, all of the above? Thanks

Use heavy duty spray adheasive to attach the fabric to the reflectix. Then zig-zag stitch just inside the edges.

I did this with reflektix and wool emergency blankets and it worked well.

I you have a heavy duty enough sewing machine you could roll the edges. Or sew on cloth bias tape. Mom will know what bias tape is!

Martini Steve

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:59 pm

Free2B wrote:I got my order of reflectix, I got my bed sheets, I even got my mother on board with her sowing machine. I'm only wondering weather I should cover my tent so it's almost air-tight, as in to the ground from all sides with some kind'a "door" at tent's entrance which I could close. Or, just throw it over and let air wander in where it may? Common sense tells me air tight for conserving the cooler air, but ventilating during cooler hours. I saw the pics of that tent completely covered in reflectix. It's odd that he also had shade on top which he mentioned in the last pic on Flikr. He didn't explain that.

I was also thinking, if I don't get poles, I could tape a blow-up wheel/circle lifesaver that goes around the waist, or some other blow-up tape-able thing, to the top of my tent so when I throw the shade over there'll be some space between. Good idea?

Any spacer is a good idea.
I like the inflatable idea, though it may stop some of the heat venting.
Even if you have perfect reflection, keeping the heated air away is a good thing.
You may want to allow your tent to heat toward nightfall.
Given a choice between hot in the day and cool at night, I'll wrap up at night.

An air layer over the tent helps you stay warm too.
Many report just as much advantage in cold with the reflective stuff.

Free2B · Post by **Free2B** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:23 pm

StevenGoodman wrote: Use heavy duty spray adheasive to attach the fabric to the reflectix. Then zig-zag stitch just inside the edges.

Thanks, just went & got the only spray adhesive they had, used for carpet, wood, fabric, the works! Now that I have more hope of re-using this thing, I might have to hunt for prettier sheets

gyre wrote: I like the inflatable idea, though it may stop some of the heat venting.

You mean cause the air's trapped in the inflatable object? I just saw a really small inflatable pool, only the walls are inflated & are taller than a lifesaver wheel. The tall pool walls folded in half-ish outwards should raise the tarp off of the tent on the sides too. Still traps air, but more venting on the sides. I'll have to test if the pool would hold up. Thanks.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:43 pm

I was thinking more about hot air venting under the tarp.
Even if the reflective stuff works perfectly, separating the warmer air is a good idea.
A double wall is great for staying warm at night though.
If there is an issue, you'll be able to tell it quickly by the hot and cool areas.
Test it before you go.

Some great ideas.
If the tyvek isn't good enough and I can't get silvicool, I may try attaching reflectix to tyvek or something else.

ziptie · Post by **ziptie** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:42 pm

Hey, gyre, you get yer sample of that fancy Tyvek yet? Mine came in the mail today, & I'm not sure what to think.

Seems surprisingly durable for being the same weight as paper, but I wonder if it'd be durable enough for playa conditions; it creases fairly easily, which doesn't bode well for standing up under repeated stress . . . Also, definitely does not block light 100%, so it'd probably have to be backed with something else, which might defeat the purpose. But it's so light--very cool stuff, even if it's not appropriate for this application.

I'd be interested to hear what you think of it.

-p.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:42 pm

I just got it out of the mail.
I'm pretty certain tyvek is the material I have seen car covers made out of.
I really want a car cover made of this stuff, unless silvicool turns out better.
It is stronger than it feels.
Because it is thin, I think abrasion would be the issue.
If you test it for light, be sure to check with the reflective side toward the light.
It looks pretty good considering the weight is 1.75 ounces/square yard.
If we split up a 100 yard roll, the cost drops to $4 yd x 60 inches.
I'm interested whether the silver turns gray eventually.
I am interested in using this stuff as a on/off window covering for car windows due to the flexibility and low weight.

I cut a notch in a sample and it rips once a tear starts, like most tyvek.
I think it would take a lot of wind out there.
This is pretty reflective for something that breathes.
I'll check it in the sun tomorrow.

Did you try to tear the envelope it came in?

Firmwood · Post by **Firmwood** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:44 pm

Ooops, maybe I should have asked this question here...

Has anyone used scafolding netting for shade? Is it effective at all? Our structure last year was covered in shade cloth but we've noticed scaffolding netting is notably cheaper.

Thanks for your words

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:18 am

Firmwood wrote:Ooops, maybe I should have asked this question here...

Has anyone used scafolding netting for shade? Is it effective at all? Our structure last year was covered in shade cloth but we've noticed scaffolding netting is notably cheaper.

Thanks for your words

That stuff they have over the garden department at home depot? If thats what you're talking about, it works great! But is heavy..that the expensive stuff? or netting? Silver tarps are good..I put strips of duct in random places,, and make a cut inside the duct tape area..reduces wind force on the tarp..

would build some sort of structure to support the weight above your tent..not on it.

Using steel conduit and fittings this year, have used lumber in the past. a little heavy

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:43 am

Shade cloth is 3 to 9 oz per sq ft, on the light side as tarps go.

http://www.igcusa.com/greenhouse-shade-cloth.html

http://www.tarpstiedowns.com/industrial ... dware.html

ziptie · Post by **ziptie** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:02 pm

gyre wrote:I'm pretty certain tyvek is the material I have seen car covers made out of.

Yeah, that seems to be one of the primary applications for this stuff. The only mention of the stuff I ever found online except for the manufacturer was about car & boat covers.

gyre wrote:If you test it for light, be sure to check with the reflective side toward the light.

Yeah, I took a sample to a party last night & we played around with it. It does seem pretty good, actually, with respect to light & heat (& water, too). By the end of the night it was pretty crinkly but looked to be fine until I actually started cutting it. I do really love how light it is, & the breatheability aspect is attractive. Took it out in the sun just now & it looks pretty good (to my untrained eyes, anyway).

gyre wrote:If we split up a 100 yard roll, the cost drops to $4 yd x 60 inches.

How much are you looking to buy, in terms of sq. footage? The price drop is tempting, but I'm not sure I need more than 300 sq. ft.

gyre wrote:Did you try to tear the envelope it came in?

Yeah, I thought it was kind of awesome that the envelope itself is also Tyvek. I've seen that kind of envelope before, & they're pretty amazingly durable. They tear at corners or creases fairly easily but you pretty much have to mean to do it for that to happen.

mmm, Tyvek.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:17 pm

I was thinking of a group buy possibly.
I would probably use double layers myself.
From what I have seen it holds up really well outside.

ziptie · Post by **ziptie** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:33 pm

I am also planning on double-layering.

Group purchase seems the most cost-effective option; I'll ask around & see if anyone I know wants some (though at the moment I can't think of anyone). I'll PM you with a tally/confirmation later.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:03 pm

Probably too late to do this year.

Have you checked out silvicool?

ziptie · Post by **ziptie** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:22 pm

Ah, yeah, for a big group thing, probably. I'm still thinking about just sucking it up for the more expensive, single-user quantity & have done with it.

I looked into the silvicool a while ago--found a 9' x 12' that ran for about $90. I think I forgot about it because I haven't heard anyone talk about actually using 'em, though they look pretty good. I wonder if the breatheability of the Tyvek works to its advantage, though silvicool's "equivalent to that of deep shade" sounds pretty promising. Have you actually seen/tested the silvicool?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:32 pm

No, but it's been recommended to me.

I have seen solid aluminet on the playa and it works great.
Silvicool may be the same thing or similar.

galaxybeing · Post by **galaxybeing** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:39 pm

FYI for the last 5 years I took a $35 screened gazebo and it worked great.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3064/267 ... 8327_b.jpg

You have to tie it down at the top of the corners from the D-rings. The frame is thin tubing. Don't anchor the frame down in any way. If the wind picks it up, the frame should lift up with it. The frame is only to hold it up, and keep it's shape, not to hold it down. Don't tie the legs to rebar or they will break. During really heavy winds, one corner usually starts to lift up because the rope losenes up so I've had to go out tighen them all down, but it's never collapsed.

But it's only screens you say, what good will that do!! There's a really tight squeeze between the frame and the plastic, so you can slip sheets or other sun blocking material into the inside. I use large paper clamps (from an office supply store), you know the big black ones, to hold the material on the frame bars.

When the strong winds come, you need to take down anything you've hung, or they will blow inward the walls inward. But the frame can flex quite a bit, and though that's happened, it's never failed.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:59 pm

I checked out the Reflektra in sunlight today and it looked good.
Some light came through but not much.
I can't tell more with such a small piece.
I think this with anything behind it would be a full block.
Maybe it would be a good base for reflectix?
Maybe even a sandwich?

TomServo · Post by **TomServo** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:05 am

Bob wrote:Shade cloth is 3 to 9 oz per sq ft, on the light side as tarps go.

http://www.igcusa.com/greenhouse-shade-cloth.html

http://www.tarpstiedowns.com/industrial ... dware.html

Then whatever my camp's using is too heavy..cracked the 4x4 supports. Great shade though. but then so did pulling the T-posts..maybe were just using shitty wood

ziptie · Post by **ziptie** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:34 am

I think I'm just gonna take one for the team & try out the Reflektra for this year. If it works, awesome. I'll let y'all know what I think when I actually get a bunch of it & start testing it out.

Free2B · Post by **Free2B** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:46 pm

gyre wrote:Can you suggest a powered one?

This really works.
It's like magic to those of us from humid areas.
On a dry year it doesn't matter if you do soak things.
I spilled water once and realized it didn't matter.
I've poured water around the tent in puddles and misted everything when it's hot.
I still can't believe it works.

I came across this & though I don't know if it's worth it, here it is: http://www.batterysavers.com/images/02c ... atower.htm It's the first battery operated mister I could find, they call it "misting fan"

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:45 am

I don't think I even need fans.
I would just like a mister that didn't run out of steam if I went to sleep.

Free2B · Post by **Free2B** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:32 pm

Free2B wrote:
StevenGoodman wrote: Use heavy duty spray adheasive to attach the fabric to the reflectix. Then zig-zag stitch just inside the edges.
Thanks, just went & got the only spray adhesive they had, used for carpet, wood, fabric, the works! Now that I have more hope of re-using this thing, I might have to hunt for prettier sheets

Anybody know a specific dead-grip glue? The glue I got's not taking right.. I tried a little piece of reflectix to the tent's rain cover material, sprayed both & let dry for a minute before bonding like the instruction said, even left it over night... this morning I pulled it off without trying much. "Max professional Multi-Purpose Spray Adhesive... for carper, plastic, cardboard, fabrics, paper, metal foil.." It didn't even glue cotton to cotton!

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:35 pm

Reflectix is as slick as anything.
I used a 3M spray once, made for brake pads.
If that won't do it, I don't know what would.
Don't expect to get it off w/o solvents.

Free2B · Post by **Free2B** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:16 pm

Just checking, you meant these right? I tried to find one which would say it's for break pads, nothing. There's lightweight & these heavyweight. They seem worth a try, the description's perfect. Thanks again!

http://www.google.com/products?q=3m+spr ... ht&show=dd

Personal shade for tent, what works? (to buy, not build)

cheap Target screened gazebo