Water infrastructure for camp showers

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Honey B Adger
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Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:28 am

Hey Guys,
This is my first burn, joined a village camp, and was assigned lead of the gifting team. The camp only has 7 members (need 20-25) and we're all first timers. So, we have a huge learning curve.
Here is what I am responsible for immediately:
[list]managing fresh water supplies, managing shower infrastructure, and managing grey water removal. I have an approximate number of ticket holders (ticket is good for 1 shower a day) ~120 tickets last year.
Last year the freshwater pumps burned out. The showerheads were battery powered and died. The pump for removing gray water malfunctioned, and the gray water tank could not be removed as scheduled. I can not have this happen to me at my first burn ☹ [/list]
2019 schedule: 8 days, 10 hours/day, 2 shifts.
-[list] There are 4 separate shower stalls already- picture attached
- shower sessions -8-10 min sessions using 2.5 gallons or less
- We have one (1) 1000 gal tank for water supply
- I am not sure what size tank is needed for the gray water collection
- Sump pump was suggested for gray water removal [/list]

- if there are beginner guides, I don't mind starting there, I just have no idea where to start. I have help for assembling everything. I just am over my head in looking for the parts that I need.

[list]what type of pumps for fresh water in (2) what kind of hoses, connectors, etc. (3) What kind of shower head (4) What size tank for gray water with pick up TBD by me later today (5) what kind of pump for gray water (6) tips for not losing it and freaking out 😉 [/list]

I would be grateful for any help. I am definitely over my head on this one.
Thank you
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AntiM
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by AntiM » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:06 am

Moderator's note: split into your own topic instead of a reply on someone else's discussion.

Kinda sucks to hand such a big project to a first timer. Yikes.

Honey B Adger
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:29 am

Yeah, it is a little overwhelming.

Thank you, I'll add this to the topic instead

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Token
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Token » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:34 am

Awesome IBC tote shower design!

Looks like someone already plumbed it with RV shower parts.

I’m gonna assume the floor has been reinforced somehow to support standing on it, maybe a plywood under the plastic or similar and that the big drain valve works.

You don’t say what kind of power you got. That is important. Pumps need power.

For grey water, best to have the stalls on a platform and use the existing drain to gravity flow down to a grey water sump. Then pump the sump into disposal barrels you take out with you or have serviced.

For piping water in, RV pumps are the best and work fine with 12V deep cycle batteries. Use standard 1/2 PVC water pipe to plumb it all. Bring spares.

One pump per stall, get one of those mechanical spring countdown timer switches with a 10 minute run time. Wire it inline with the pump. That way each ticket gets 10 minutes ;) and each stall has its own pump for redundancy should one break.

Have an official timer switch keeper and hygiene inspector shifts with extra services like back scrubbing available for bribes.

Also nice to have bleachers and some hecklers and make it a comedy routine.

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Token
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Token » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:38 am

On IBC totes ...

Get the make and model that was used.

They all have a ball valve drain but there are ~ dozen different sizes of threads and fittings behind them.

Measure twice, 3-times ... then search on Amazon or similar for fittings to connect to a standard 2” drain pipe - Black PVC pipe.

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Token
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Token » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:45 am

And most important -

Make all the controls lockable.

Battery, switches ... under lock and key.

Best to have a regular shower schedule and have the showered monitored and staffed, but otherwise locked and closed.

This includes the grey water sump. Has to have a lid or you’ll find it full of spaghetti, piss and puke at some point during the week.

There will ALWAYS be one or few idiots that take a 1-hour shower, or decide to have a shower orgy all night long ...

And then the water is gone and grey water all over the Playa.

The building of this is rather easy if you stick with proven parts, like RV stuff.

Keeping it running for a week+ is the icky part. Pray the condom and tampon gods are kind to you.

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Popeye
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Popeye » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:22 am

Honey B Adger wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:28 am
Hey Guys,
This is my first burn, joined a village camp, and was assigned lead of the gifting team. The camp only has 7 members (need 20-25) and we're all first timers. So, we have a huge learning curve.
Here is what I am responsible for immediately:
[list]managing fresh water supplies, managing shower infrastructure, and managing grey water removal. I have an approximate number of ticket holders (ticket is good for 1 shower a day) ~120 tickets last year.
Last year the freshwater pumps burned out. The showerheads were battery powered and died.
You are pretty much limited to DC, water and AC don't mix very well. Pumps burn out from overheating/friction when there is no water flow through the pump to cool them. I haven't tried these yet but Rule makes an inline pump that works on 12V, and if used with Tokens idea of a timer should last.

The pump for removing gray water malfunctioned, and the gray water tank could not be removed as scheduled. I can not have this happen to me at my first burn
You will have problems getting pumped out. Pump early and use bribes. Use something listed as a "Trash Pump" or a bilge pump. Both are available in 12V and will clog. When buying pumps, look at the pump curve. This will tell you haw GPM a pump puts out at a certain head- how far the water has to be lifted. Pumps are advertised at zero head and may not perform where you want them to.

☹ [/list]
2019 schedule: 8 days, 10 hours/day, 2 shifts.
-[list] There are 4 separate shower stalls already- picture attached
- shower sessions -8-10 min sessions using 2.5 gallons or less
- We have one (1) 1000 gal tank for water supply
- I am not sure what size tank is needed for the gray water collection
- Sump pump was suggested for gray water removal [/list]
Grey water is (should be) the same amount as potable water plus all the piss and shit your neighbors dump on you.


- if there are beginner guides, I don't mind starting there, I just have no idea where to start. I have help for assembling everything. I just am over my head in looking for the parts that I need.

[list]what type of pumps for fresh water in (2) what kind of hoses, connectors, etc. (3) What kind of shower head (4) What size tank for gray water with pick up TBD by me later today (5) what kind of pump for gray water (6) tips for not losing it and freaking out 😉 [/list]
Check the size and thread type of the pump you buy. then match. Many will be hose bib or pipe thread. Som hose barb (check size). Bring hose clamps in different sized- more than you need. Pen bodies, pieces of copper tubing etc. can be used to splice if needed. Bilge pumps are popular and usually sa standard 1 1/2 or 2" bilge hose that can be pushed on the outlet. Use hose clamps. Nashua and Permatex and others make a self fusing silicone tape that can be wrappped over clean tubing to temporarily seal a leak. Expensive.

I would be grateful for any help. I am definitely over my head on this one.
Thank you
Reading back over what I wrote I wonder why I bothered. This "shower every day" has all the earmarks of a plug n play. Exactly what I don't like. And you getting stuck with a critical part of camp infrastructure, something you know nothing about.... fucking stupid and probably doomed to failure. Good luck.
“Tell me, what is it you plan to do / with your one wild and precious life?” Mary Oliver

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Token
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Token » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:36 am

You are likely right P, smells like a sucker born every minute.

There is a reason this is the best shower for the Playa :

Image

Add a $6 mortar mixing trough and a towel ...

Shower a day - I giggle.

Honey B Adger
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:54 pm

I don't think it's a plug and play. It is a big village that has been around awhile. And we are making the meal plan, there are no special amenities. I agreed to help contribute to the camp, and that meant run a few shifts for the showers, help with community meals, and come up with fun ideas for decorating the showers.
Then the camp lead ( her 2nd year at BM) was having a hard time with all of her responsibilities. So, I offered to help, and here we are. I am buying pumps, and sounding like an idiot with Black Rock Water bc I am asking them about past consumption.
We (the other newbies) were just excited to be included at first, now we don't know if this is how its supposed to be or if we are getting screwed. Some people were promised that they have a ticket reserved for them to be sold and shipped after the OMG sale. What are we supposed to do? We don't know what is expected of new burners to prove they aren't here just to be a spectator? I genuinely want to be involved. I read these forums looking for all the guides, I posted here, because I recognized you and popeye as people who help others a lot. Now my Burn is frantically trying to contact village leads and hope I don't fuck this all up.

If this is plug and play, they are doing it wrong.

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Token
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Token » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:03 pm

Don’t get discouraged. This shit is supposed to be hard ;)

It’s all doable.

Since this is all very complicated based on your nonlinear prose ...

1 . Do you have a ticket? Did you get one by yourself and not as some promise from the camp/village.

That is key.

If you are doing all this work based on some future ticket you will earn after the OMG sale ... you’re getting proper fucked.

Answer that simple question, then we move on to geekery and plumbing.

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Grumpy Otter
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Grumpy Otter » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:08 pm

A camp that dumps responsibilities on a Birgin is not your friend. Your first Burn is your get acquainted tour. Having some volunteer responsibilities is great. Having lead, planning and sacrificing money and time for key parts of what is supposed to be an established camp is wrong. If the option is there, you might take your small team of fellow Birgins and go it alone with a stripped down camp. It sounds like you are already planning to spend enough money to set your selves up with everything you really need.

Honey B Adger
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:19 pm

Ok. Me and 2 others are expecting them to give us a ticket.

Honey B Adger
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:20 pm

Well, sell us a ticket

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Token
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Token » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:27 pm

Ok, you’re getting fucked over.

They are promising you access to tickets they “HOPE” to buy in the OMG sale.

They have no guarantee for those tickets. In fact, those ticket odds are about same as main-sale tickets.

Tell them to fuck of, sign up for the OMG sale yourself with your friends, and focus on getting a tent, some shade and stuff you need for camping with your friends, Solo. It’s allot easier than the clusterfuck you got yourself into.

Honey B Adger
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:40 pm

The tickets are supposedly from directed sale meant for people who are critical to camp operations. There wasn't any reason not to believe that. Should they transfer the ticket immediately when they promise it to you?

I literally have planned so well for myself that I am helping my friends make their lists and reminding them to get the PVC for the awesome swamp cooler idea we found.

I have spent the last couple weeks recruiting other members, helping the other birgins prepare, and supporting the camp lead with all of the camp responsibilities. This is going to hurt a little if we are getting fucked over.

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Token
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Token » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:19 pm

Don’t get me wrong HoneyB, I could be way off on my assessment here ...

... getting snippets from you on the situation and all that ... sometimes I focus on keywords and fill in the blank. My bad if that’s the case.

If these are DGS tickets, that changes things. Allot.

You mentioned OMG and it caught my eye is all.

If your crew is getting DGS access for sweat equity, by all means, way to go.

Then it all boils down to trust and the relationship you have with the Leads.

Have you met them face to face? Are you far away and will meet them first time on the Playa ... that is what I’d focus on. If all that clears and you’ve met the folks, shook their hand ... evaluate the trust and then let’s build this shit.

Honey B Adger
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:21 pm

Ok, awesome sauce! I inquired about the ticket today, I should know something by Monday, I guess it's a holiday and people are out having fun! I am going to try that too! I will take the information I have now, and research costs. I will come back on Monday with some questions and a plan or with terrible news a different plan.

Thank you!

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FIGJAM
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:55 pm

Red flag on the DGS!!!

Those tickets are suppose to be assigned to individuals at the time of issue.

The camp has to supply names for those tickets.

If you aren't insured a ticket already, they are bending the rules and I would be VERY careful moving forward.

I could be wrong, but I'm not uncertain!!!
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AntiM
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by AntiM » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:05 pm

When I used to buy a DGS ticket for MyLarry, I would sometimes buy two, and did not need to supply any names. A WAP needs a name, a DGS does not. I had to sell Larry's last year, although I sold it back into our village, there was never an assigned name. It went to someone who was working set up.

I have gone completely blank on who got my gift ticket. Zero memory of that. Weird.

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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by gaminwench » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:17 pm

Figjam, That's not how it works. DGS don't have names attached.
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Popeye
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Popeye » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:21 pm

I got two DGS tickets this year both in my name. I will give the physical tickets to someone the leads designate.

Question for OP: Have you paid dues yet? If not you are probably ok. If you have paid then how much? A large amount you are probably getting screwed. A small amount you are probably ok.

BTW what does your camp do on Playa? How do you interact?
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by MrHedgehog » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:03 am

FIGJAM wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:55 pm
Those tickets are suppose to be assigned to individuals at the time of issue.

The camp has to supply names for those tickets.
Popeye wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:21 pm
I got two DGS tickets this year both in my name. I will give the physical tickets to someone the leads designate.
Yeah, that's my experience, too.

The DGS tickets themselves do NOT have a name printed on them, and can just be sold/handed to anyone when they're physically received ... but the camp lead has to give the ORG the Burner Profile names of the recipients, so that they can actually use their Burner Profiles to buy the DGS tickets and have them shipped.

In my experience, the camp lead is not able to just buy 20 or 30 tickets themselves and then just sell them on to camp staff.

AFAIK, tickets are only just beginning to ship, so it's unlikely (but possible) that the camp lead actually has them to give out, yet.


Anyway, a 2nd-year burner running a camp whose name doesn't appear in last year's camp list, that somehow gets a bunch of DGS tickets and then sells them on to a group of eager burgins who will actually be expected to run the camp's offerings ... which seems to include gifting daily showers to some other camp(s) in the village (but probably not the general-populace).

Expensive showers that already somehow magically exist, together with a 1000 gallon water supply, even though there doesn't actually seem to be anyone in camp with the experience and history to have organized those.

It could be legit (even if a disaster in-the-making), but wow ... there are a whole bunch of warning signs in that situation that the OP might want to investigate.

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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Sham » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:17 am

Was money paid to this camp yet?

Our 50 person camp has a single home made shower stall. Each person is expected to provide their own water for the shower. Bring baby wipes too. Shower stalls don't need decorations. :roll:

We would never ask, trust or assign a first timer anything crucial. The best is to assist in preparing meals, camp set up and break down. If they are around and step up to the plate, they can come back next year. If they keep evaporating when there's work to be done, they are done.

All DGS tickets must be purchased by individuals--single or two tickets. There are no large numbers able to be purchased.

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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:33 am

Village dues and a camp dues have been paid.

I didn't pay the dues at first, and I asked about the ticket then. The camp lead told me that the village leaders were just waiting for the final list of core members who needed tickets or had extra tickets. She said she would sell me her personal xtra main sale ticket if something happened. But she was adamant that it was going to be OK. I have no reason not to trust her, bc I have too much invested.

I asked about the ticket again yesterday bc of the concern shown here. I also contacted the person from the village who recruited me. Waiting to hear back

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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:25 am

Well, i should know today or tomorrow if they are transferring a ticket. If they do, I will have my ticket, and I help make this camp better than before. If we are running it, then we can shift the culture too. I watched a bunch of videos for camp organizers from the 2016 symposium. I was worried about the lack of acculterization (sp?) we were receiving. We are bringing in mostly birgins. And they were going to get their burn dammit.

Hopefully we can Include everyone in Gifting.. Everyone gets a shower!! You get a shower, and you get a shower and..

If this doesn't work out, I haven't lost anything but some money. Ticket-wise I'm in the same place as I was before... Waiting for Omg sale. The time invested was still spent learning, it's not lost. I'm just extra ready for the next camp or solo camping or next year (l'll be hurt, but I'll move on)

Insert some motivational meme here!

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Token
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Token » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:04 am

HoneyB, my dear, you are made from the right stuff!

Fantastic attitude!!!

So let’s assume everything is a go and you still need to wash some people.

Do you physically have access to the shower stalls in the picture?

Are you good with basic automotive wiring?

Are you good with basic PVC pipe work, priming and gluing pipe? Cutting pipe? NTP fittings?

Do you got access to skilled people that can fill any technical gaps and provide helping hands?

Let’s set the stage and see what can be done.

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Token
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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Token » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:55 am

Actually, the more I think about it, the better I like PE pipe. Barb connectors and crimping instead of glue.

And you gotta talk budget with your camp wrangler.

I’d ballpark this at ~ $200 per stall if all the needed tools are available and the camp has a 12V battery pool with charging figured out already.

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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:22 pm

Ticket update - received a screenshot ofmy camp lead and a village lead "Courtney will be allocated a ticket".

Yaaaas! Let's do this right for the first time!

So, I am open to any plan that is smart and reusable, and gets the job done... It's a Playa shower, not a spa day.

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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Honey B Adger » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:14 pm

Sorry, for half post. Here is the update...

I'm going to move forward with planning. I have another documented confirmation that I will be allocated a ticket. The equipment doesn't need to be shipped to the pod until Aug. The camp lead has the funds to purchase the supplies for me to test.


Let's get busy with dust removal! And with $200/stall budget. Free to design any way I want. Creative freedom and intellectual property (I'm going to gift the camp a plan)

What i know...

Water is expensive....last year we filled the tanks every day

(2) 500 gal tanks. Need to make sure that it meets water suppliers specs.
Tanks sit directly outside the stalls which are set inside a metal shelter for privacy

(3) we have a generator. Waiting for details on what kind

(4)we need a way to get water to shower stall. The best possible solution to meet our needs. Up to me to decide.

Scalable system might be a good idea if we find we are so awesome we want to expand..

I think 10 mins might be too long. But idk what is expected to be sufficiently clean.

Last year - gave a guest cold/medium/hot (I don't know how) water in a 2 gallon bucket and used a battery powered pumping shower head that lasted 3 hours--rotated 11 shower heads throughout the day. Wasted time, money and water

I don't have access to stalls, but I can set up a testing environment at home and work this out. I'm handy and I have 1 good friend, and I can learn anything from YouTube.

That's the information I have.. I

Wow, thank you so much for all the support and guidance. I am so grateful.

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Re: Water infrastructure for camp showers

Post by Jackass » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:27 pm

How about gravity? Set the water on top of shipping container if you have one, or on pallet shelving, with a fork lift of course... Or pump water as necessary to a high tank and let it dispense using gravity, that way you can keep the shower supply tank dry when outside of set shower hours.

You'll have to keep the shower consumption in check in order to insure that supplies stretch, 1.5-2 gallons makes a great shower. You can start there and ramp it up towards the second half of the week if it looks like there's going to be a surplus.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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