Shade cloth? Camo netting? Sail cloth? Used diapers????

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
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Bob
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Post by Bob » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:35 am

FWIW, you can barely tell the black from the green mesh on the Cafe in Center Camp by the end of the week, due to the dust.

Resisting things like paint is a basic design property of polypropylene (shade mesh, geotextile, etc.) and similar plastics. Sticks for a while, but it will flake. Shade mesh is available from custom tarp & awning makers in lots of colors, but the turnaround time might be a bit too long to count on it for late August unless they have it in stock.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Miss Kate
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Post by Miss Kate » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:56 am

After reading all seven pages of this thread, I'm still unclear as to which is better, white tarps or silver tarps?

I keep thinking that white would be better...

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:56 am

Canvas, actually.

Image
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robotland
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Post by robotland » Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:51 am

Yeah, and I'll bet you brought that grass with you, too.
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Bob
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Post by Bob » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:32 am

Pretty as it is, I wouldn't. It's a proven bitch to clean up.

Image

http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=7465
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

gatonegro3
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mylar

Post by gatonegro3 » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:52 am

does anybody have experience with mylar?
what thickness?
does it tear?
How would you glue/tape it together?
the guys that carry it tell me that when it starts tearing, it tears like butter, but it's hard to start it.

I found some at
http://www.nielsensenterprises.com/snomo/mylar.htm

gatonegro

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:17 am

http://www.google.com/search?q=mylar+tarp
Aluminized Mylar Tarp

Cold areas with known geometrical dimensions on the desert surface can offer an opportunity for conducting experiments in satellite calibration. Natural cold areas with the proper dimensions and attributes are not easily available and in general require man-made efforts to develop them. Aluminized Mylar with its low emissivity was originally manufactured for space programs to keep satellites safe from solar radiation and heating. The same material can also be used to make reflective tarps. The tarps can then be used to reflect solar radiation from the desert surface thus creating a cold area in contrast to the continuously exposed sand.

The low emissivity of the aluminized Mylar can be exploited to create two types of cold areas on the desert surface. In one case, the aluminized Mylar tarp can be used as a shield (reflector) against solar irradiation on the sand. At a predetermined time prior to the satellite overpass, the tarps can be removed to expose the colder sand to the satellite. A temperature contrast between cold shaded area and the surrounding hot sand can fall between 3 to 11C. The advantage of this method in the creation of a cold target is the retention of a constant emissivity (sand) across the hot and cold boundaries. Figure 6a shows the thermal imprint left behind on the ground after the removal of a 5’ x 3’ aluminized Mylar tarp. In this experiment, the soil was covered with the aluminized Mylar early in the morning. Figure 6b shows a graph of the time dependence soil temperature. The temperature of the surrounding soil area was 44.3C.

A second type of cold pixel can be created by the reflection of the cold skies (–50C to –20C) by the aluminized Mylar in the direction of the satellite position. The MTI satellite has the capability to image a target with two views (nadir and at 55 degree from nadir). The apparent temperature of the sky is dependent on the observation angle with the coldest at the zenith view. Therefore, the two views of the satellite in the direction of the aluminized Mylar target can produce two completely different apparent temperatures due to the skies sampling location.

The cold sand target allows testing the minimum resolvable temperature of the satellite’s detector. The ground sampling distance (GRD) of the satellite is 20 meters. A cold target of 50 x 50 meters2 ensures that the satellite pixel falls in the designated area. Depending on the alignment of the satellite detector pixel array on the aluminized tarps on the ground, it is possible for the cold target to fill up to two pixels. The 50x50 meter2 also insures that the second view at 55-degree can observe a cold pixel.

The second cold target created by the reflection of the cold skies by the aluminized Mylar target can test the dynamic response of the detector. The target at a –50C apparent temperature surrounded by sand around 52C is ideal in producing a thermal step function on the satellite’s detector. Figure 7 shows a visible picture of the 50x50m2 and a 25x25m2 tarp aerial overview. Figure 4 shows the satellite thermal image of the 25x25m2 aluminized Mylar tarp at Ivanpah Playa.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:19 am

Image
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

gatonegro3
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Post by gatonegro3 » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:32 am

mmmm. is that supposed to answer the tearing question, or just general interest?

I'm not planning to test my satellites in the playa this year. I like to do that when i'm in the mood. YOu know, otherwise the tests come crooked.

gatonegro

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BAS
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Post by BAS » Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:36 pm

Well, I probably shouldn't be on-line since I have been drinking, but what the heck! :D

I stopped at a local Menard's to pick up some compact flourescent (sp?) lightbulbs, since, well, my bathroom fixture burned out one of the current bulbs, and, while at the store, I figured I would see how much some of the materials to build a yurt would cost, since some of the ropes and stuff seemed to be on sale. Well..., I don't seem to be having any better luck with the ropes and straps than I did with the tarp(s)! (After settling on the idea of using a billboard tarp, I haven't heard back from the place which said that they should have some available in early August-- OTOH, that is still better luck than I had with places like Menards, who just plain don't seem to carry anything in large enough dimensions!)

The yurt instructions I have tell me that I need 2 non-stretch straps for belly bands, which are 50 feet long by at least one inch wide. Menards longest length would seem to be 15 or so feet.

The instructions also specify "About 120 feet of 1/4 inch rope (not cotton)". Menards rope only goes up to 100 feet long. I do not trust my rope slicing skills to try to put together a rope out of two shorter ropes!

I haven't even begun to price the lumber for building the yurt, but I am beginning to suspect Menards is NOT the place to look for material!

(Although, maybe I WILL pick up a dust mask there, since one they had on sale for $15 looked decent, in a slight overkill way.)

Any suggestions?

Thanks.
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
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Bob
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Post by Bob » Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:38 pm

The only successful application of mylar I've seen is a friend's semi-geodesic igloo, made of panels of solid roof insulation. Had a china hat on top and a light wood deck underneath, as I recall, for through-ventilation. I prefer canvas, which breaths on its own.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

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BAS
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Post by BAS » Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:00 pm

Canvas probably is better than plastic, esp. for breathability. Mostly I want to use billboard tarp due to cost (at least in theory it should be cheap, since it will be waste product from the advertising agency), ease of cutting and ease of transport (at least I think it should be lighter and more compact!). With a yurt, I should be able to have the structure "hike up its skirt" and open the top for ventilation. I'm guessing other structures should be able to be built with a similar air circulation system (like in Bob's post).
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
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robotland
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Post by robotland » Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:58 am

BAS wrote:The instructions also specify "About 120 feet of 1/4 inch rope (not cotton)". Menards rope only goes up to 100 feet long. I do not trust my rope slicing skills to try to put together a rope out of two shorter ropes!

.
Nylon rope always sucks for knotting. If you can't trust your Scout Skills, try using the metal links that you screw onto ropes for swings or hooks- They're just as good for joining two lengths together. (Use two.)
I discovered a flat nylon webbing called "Mule Tape" that actually DOES take knots, and has a very high test rating, but unfortunately I found it secondhand. It might Google up, though.
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BAS
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Post by BAS » Mon Jul 26, 2004 6:22 pm

I wouldn't trust my "Scout Skills" to stand up to a 7MPH wind, much less a 70MPH wind! :wink:

I've never heard of Mule Tape, I might have to look around for it next weekend (weekends are pretty much when I am looking for stuff, and even on those days the search seems slow.... :( )

I need to figure out where the Army Surplus store got moved to when the City chased it away from its long term location just off State Street (so that the City can build a huge memorial to a guy whose wife made a lot of money, or something like that.) Apparently the person who wrote the yurt instructions got a lot of her material at an Army-Navy store. Or at least the long straps for the "belly bands".


Thanks!
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
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robotland
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RIP Army Surplus

Post by robotland » Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:42 am

The same thing happened to Kalamazoo, but we got a crappy parking structure instead of a Richwife Memorial. Used to be a huge, rambling place in a 100-year-old building with belt-driven ceiling fans and scary freight elevators. Nice. Now they're in a box next to the Linear Parking Lot, AKA Westnege Street, on the outskirts of the MegaConsumerPlex Of Doom.
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BAS
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Post by BAS » Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:27 pm

Actually, a parking structure would have made more sense, since parking is a major problem downtown! What I was calling a "memorial" is actually called the Overture Center-- a complex which is supposed to attracted performing arts to Madison, WI. I suppose that the idea is that we don't have "real" performing arts here or something-- or at least not the kind that folks with "real" money want to see. The city "had" to build it since the husband of the woman who founded the Pleasant Company (maker of dolls which somehow promote the role of woman in history, which I guess is a good thing, I honestly don't know much about the dolls), donated a large sum of money to have the thing built. The Overture Center is replacing the Civic Center, and several long term successful businesses, in the name of attracting business to the downtown area. :roll:


Hm. I suppose if I had thought of going to BM back when they were tearing down the old businesses, or even in the earlier stages of putting up the White Elephant Center, I could have scavanged building materials-- or got arrested for acting suspicous. :)
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
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robotland
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Post by robotland » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:05 am

Funny you should say that.....A buddy and I decided to run around in the ruins before they put up the parking lot, and were intercepted by the Elite Narcotics Enforcement Patrol, complete with dogs. We were clean, but were TRESPASSING (!!!!!) and were almost booked for breaking and entering but for the fact that we were able to lead the cops and dogs back to the (wide open) gate that we had walked in through. They were sore about having had to climb the fence. Final verdict: "Prowling".
The parking structure went BANKRUPT several years later- Don't ask me how they managed to do THAT.
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BAS
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Post by BAS » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:51 pm

and were almost booked for breaking and entering but for the fact that we were able to lead the cops and dogs back to the (wide open) gate that we had walked in through. They were sore about having had to climb the fence.


:D

It's probably just as well I didn't try scavanging. Downtown has a pretty heavy police presence.

My brother and I were once downtown, years and years ago, eating doughnuts we had just recently purchased and oggling expensive bicycles displayed in Yellow Jersey's window, when we were approached by someone who tried to buy drugs from us. He had a thick British accent, and neither my brother nor I were familar with drug lingo, so we had no idea what he was trying to do. Just that he had money he was (nearly) discreetly holding, and seemed to be trying to buy something..., maybe from the bag I was holding? He seemed to get really annoyed when we did not understand him, and abruptly broke off the conversation when I pulled an apple fritter out of the bag and took a bite...!

All of this took place less than a hundred yards from a parked police cruiser, an unmarked police cruiser! (My brother and I agreed that even if we had figured out what he was talking about, and, by some unlikely circumstance, had had drugs, we would not have sold anyone them that close to a police cruiser, which I seem to recall was manned!)

I really have no idea how come parking structures go banckrupt, but I have heard of it happening before! Poor planing, I guess...?
"Nothing is withheld from us which we have conceived to do.
Do things that have never been done."
--Russell Kirsch

lysviolin
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tyvek on the playa

Post by lysviolin » Fri May 30, 2008 7:52 pm

OK, kids. I'm trying two things. First I am going to build 2 BIG cardboard domes and then I am going to try a monkeyhut shade structure made of 3 layers of Tyvek sewn on top of each other and grommet the hell out of it. Any suggestions???

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Fri May 30, 2008 8:48 pm

Bunting.

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Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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oneeyeddick
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Re: tyvek on the playa

Post by oneeyeddick » Sat May 31, 2008 12:19 am

lysviolin wrote:OK, kids. I'm trying two things. First I am going to build 2 BIG cardboard domes and then I am going to try a monkeyhut shade structure made of 3 layers of Tyvek sewn on top of each other and grommet the hell out of it. Any suggestions???
Save 2 layers and all those grommets and just use one layer (it will breathe better)
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

lysviolin
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Post by lysviolin » Sat May 31, 2008 8:03 am

Thanks OED! Is only one layer going to work? I remember last year's wind ripped the canopy off our RV (probably because we were parked facing the wrong direction). I worked with the Tyvek yesterday a bit and it WILL tear. Also, anybody know how noisy it is? It gets more pliable as you handle it. Lemme know...fiddler

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