Shade cloth? Camo netting? Sail cloth? Used diapers????

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
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Bob
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Post by Bob » Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:55 am

I'd imagine truck tarps are rated for 70 mph.

Bring some 100-mph tape, in any case.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Alexiis
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Post by Alexiis » Mon Apr 12, 2004 11:46 am

Just got off the phone with the people @ Barracuda. They are a swell crowd and eager to hear about my experiences with the snow/artic camo.

The report form them is this stuff is strong and designed to take alot. There is one caveat though: apparently there ate two strength types and until my stuff arrives I won't beable to tell if i have the heavy duty or lite duty product. Until then, Michael Olofsson @ Barracuda is a good man to discuss future tarp and shade needs. I reccomend his expertiese. Thanks for the link!

So off to Joshua Tree to see how this stuff flys<or dosen't> this weekend if It shows up. Over & out for now.

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:32 pm

Care to fill us in on how you're going to rig it?
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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polykarmatic
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sure honey..those look nice..(how can I get that home?)

Post by polykarmatic » Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:07 pm

I bet I'm not the only one here who has been eye balling those shade structures at the garden center as their spouse picks out the bedding plants..

90% shade cloth with all the grommets and finished edges... damn makes my heart beat faster.
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Alpha
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Re: sure honey..those look nice..(how can I get that home?)

Post by Alpha » Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:07 pm

polykarmatic wrote:shade structures at the garden center
If you go the commercial route, make sure you're either buying something that can sustain some serious wind or else have a plan to reinforce it. I started my first year with a shade canopy and the wind, gusting over 40mph easily, practically laid it over sideways. We improvised guy wires out of 16 gauge speaker wire, but that wire broke.

I still use that shade canopy but I bring a PVC sleeve for the upwind side (so the aluminum pole doesn't crimp) and I use nylon rope as a guy line.

hazy
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Post by hazy » Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:48 pm

Now in our fifth year of shade structure (geo dome) cover research...

- parachutes - worst of all worlds - lets light in, doesn't let heat out, not really water proof, but will still pool with water and take on weight as it allows water to drip through

- silver tarp - wrapping the whole dome causes temp inside to be higher than outside - good idea to double coverage along arch of sun for opaque shade - shingle pieces with ventilation plan worked best - very good at keeping rain out as well - catches wind quite nicely, yes 24 foot diameter domes will slide along the playa when not staked down

- next experiment: 70% aluminet cool shade cloth

-d

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Mithra
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Shade Structure Theory

Post by Mithra » Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:08 pm

So, Swarty, Dr Random and I were sitting around last year trying to figure out the best way to cover a geo dome. This is out theory(completly untested):

Build a modified geo dome, add a coridor that goes one third the distance around the circumfirance, sort of like a nautilus. Cover everything but the outside part of the coridor with heavy duty white boat shrink wrap, shrink it. Then cover the outside part of the corridor, shrink it.

You'll have a dome that has a sea shell like enterance, at the junction of the coridor and the dome you could put in a heavy duty static curtin or a zipper door. Just after the door dig in a plastic lined moat, no shoes inside.

To keep the dust out: install a swamp cooler and vents (no vents needed if you go with the static curtin(I think)). We were thinking that this would create positive pressure, which should keep most of the dust out.

Has anyone worked with boat shrink wrap? It shrinks really tight which would make the dome very strong. You basically weld all the pieces together and they make all these cool things you can weld on, like windows, vents, zipper doors, etc.

If all went according to plan, it would be a cool, stong mostly dust free structure.

Please blast the hell out of this idea or feel free to steal it.

Mithra

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Dork
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Post by Dork » Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:29 pm

Would the heat of the playa cause the shrink wrap to want to shrink even more? Such that you can't get it off cleanly?

Keeping positive pressure going 24/7 would suck up a lot of power and would require a very highly sealed structure. Plus, you'll have to filter out a lot of stuff going into the fan.

I never knew you could get shrink wrap that big.. interesting stuff!

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Mithra
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Post by Mithra » Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:31 pm

Some links:
http://www.pro-tect.net/faq.htm
http://www.boatowners.com/shrinkwrap.htm

It takes 200 to 300 K btu's to shrink, I don't think It will get that hot....

They use this stuff to wrap new buildings, really big ones to keep the weather out, I know it would stand up to the wind....well in theory....

Oh, I forgot to mention, we planed to wrap the floor as well....

Swamp coolers don't use much energy, it's just a fan running really.

We were thinking of finding a filter for the swap cooler as well.

Thanks,
Mithra

robotland
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Honey, I shrunk the dome

Post by robotland » Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:30 am

You might have to stake the dome down more vigorously than usual, to prevent the shrinkwrap from distorting it along the equator where the structure is weakest......Or perhaps a floor of radial support struts, covered by plywood?
This shrinkwrap idea intrigues me- I was going to cover the top dome of my "Snowman" by wrapping it with that plastic-wrap-on-a-spindle stuff designed to hold palettes, although shrinking it would work too.....Good way to winterize a dome, as we in this challenging climate must.
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LostMachine
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Sheets

Post by LostMachine » Sun May 23, 2004 1:59 am

I’m going to try old hotel bed sheets; they are a material I can get for free so I want to use them if I can. Each sheet will be cut into triangular panels that are bunched at the edges; I think this will keep rips from starting. Having individual panels would allow air to blow through. I can see this as being both a good and bad thing.
This weekend I’m going to be out at the desert I’ll bring a panel and frame to test on the back of my truck doing 75mph across the flats. I’ll take pics and tell you how it went.
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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Sun May 23, 2004 8:20 am

Machine - hope your test went well. You might want to consider making 2 layers of the bedsheets with an air gap in between; this will cut down on sunlight penetration and also create an insulating barrier.

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Sun May 23, 2004 8:31 am

Might test it under a lawn sprinkler too.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Rage
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Aluminet

Post by Rage » Sun May 23, 2004 8:39 pm

I'm thinking of using a carport-like structure covered with aluminet shade cloth.

http://www.cloudtops.com/greenhouse_sha ... uminet.htm

It breaths, stays cool and blocks most of the light.
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Forgive me if it goes astray..." - Prince

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pokiedot
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Post by pokiedot » Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:02 pm

hazy wrote:Now in our fifth year of shade structure (geo dome) cover research...
- parachutes - worst of all worlds - lets light in, doesn't let heat out, not really water proof, but will still pool with water and take on weight as it allows water to drip through
- silver tarp - wrapping the whole dome causes temp inside to be higher than outside
- next experiment: 70% aluminet cool shade cloth
-d
aluminet! has anyone actually used it? our camp is trying it out this year as well for our smaller dome. it sounds ideal, but i can't seem to find anyone who's actually experienced it.

and i absolutely agree on the parachutes.. absolute death! don't do it! but our camp has had better luck with silver tarp. i think the difference is that our dome isn't completely covered and there's lots of airflow. our awning is a little saggy in this photo, but here we are:

http://www.moonsofmongo.com/gallery/vie ... 3&id=ufo02

our mothership stays nice and cool.

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huge heavy-duty tarp

Post by Toque » Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:51 pm

I have one I *ahem* liberated from the Home Despot in Klamath Falls last year. It is a huge orange tarp (I dunno how big -- maybe 25'x25'?) and I don't even know if they sell these. It seems to be made of a kind of thick canvas -- maybe rubbercoated or waterproof/resistant? --has grommets and solid nylon webbing to reinforce the D-ring tiedown points on one side. I tied it off between my 6-person tent, roof rack of car, and kitchen shade structure (one of those Cannondale bike race tents), and it sagged but provided some decent shade. Won't have the Cannondale this year, I don't think.

Does anyone know anything about the kind of tarp I'm describing? (like I said measurements may be off -- it is huge and heavy though)

Any tips on how to use this beast of a tarp, along with maybe a vehicle (roof rack perhaps, haven't bought a vehicle yet), and whatever else I need (poles/PVC/etc)? I would like to have the tarp cover my tent if possible but I dunno what to attach it to, not sure anything I'm bringing will be tall enough (my tent is huge). ideal situation: shade structure to go over my tent (maybe 8ish' tall? sound right for a 6-person?) and then provide outdoor shade, maye even for another small tent, a couple loungers etc.

Should I even use this tarp? It seems "industrial-size-and-quality" to me and though it won't likely let in any wind, I hesitate to slash air holes in it -- or is that all it needs? :P

(If I oughta post this somewhere else, lemme know...)
... it's just a fucking camping trip!

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Captain Goddammit
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Re: huge heavy-duty tarp

Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:42 am

Toque wrote:I have one I *ahem* liberated from the Home Despot in Klamath Falls last year.
You know, every time you steal something, God kills a kitten.
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robotland
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Post by robotland » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:17 am

Maybe a 1V dome of AT LEAST 3/4" conduit as a framework- Sounds HEAVY! I have a heavy canvas tarp that we used as a floor last year, and while thick canvas lacks that soothing, lyrical "flappy snappy" sound that regular tarps develop under windload, the structure has to withstand lots more weight all the time as opposed to just in a gust. Somewhere on the Eplaya is a person that can calculate the necessary wind force to lift a heavy, unventilated canvas tarp and throw it downwind. Ain't me. Using your car's roofrack as part of the structure was an idea that I was toying with, too....If you could get some others to park their wagons in a circle(Or a square), you could probably anchor the tarp all around and then add a centerpole for height and be good to go!
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Custom small sizes

Post by Mister Jellyfish Mister » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:31 am

For custom sizes, especially small ones, a good deal can be had at http://www.thortarp.com although their ordering online system is a little primitive. I guess that's what you get when you buy from a Norse God that is no longer worshipped.
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AntiM
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Post by AntiM » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:55 am

Used billboard vinyls are a great material which you could use to make custom tarps. They're heavy and don't breathe so would make poor roofs, but we cut ours up and have made a trailer cover, floors, a cot cover, bags, and wrapped up the poles for the shade structures while in transit. We've also cut out words and graphics and clipped them up to the shade structure walls using those big spring clamps from Harbor Freight. Instant murals if you get a billboard you like. I personally covet "Get your Peterbilt free" (a casino ad) or "Horse lovers wanted" (real estate).

The vinyls are tough as shit but you can cut them with scissors and sew seams on a regular sewing machine. Putting in grommets is a piece of cake. They're usually either cheap or free, and at 50' by 14', absolutely huge.

Anti M

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:09 am

Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

"Let us say I suggest you may be human." -- Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

DeadlyKungFu
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plan for the sunrise...

Post by DeadlyKungFu » Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:57 am

great thread, just wanted to add that you should take into account where the sun rises. I had my tent under a parachute last year, but on the eastern edge, so the parachute did nothing for me in the AM, I was a baked potato in my tent every AM a half hour after sunrise.

The parachute did OK once we cut a LOT of ventilation holes in it (lets the wind through and gets the heat out), but it was still much better to sit under an open opaque tarp.

This year I'm thinking of taking one of the opaque materials mentioned here and more of less making a custom fit cover for my tent, modeled after the rain fly that comes with it.

The white cammo netting is suprisingly cool and looks great when you're sitting under it.

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Post by pokiedot » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:36 pm

AntiM wrote:Used billboard vinyls are a great material which you could use to make custom tarps. They're heavy and don't breathe so would make poor roofs, but we cut ours up and have made a trailer cover, floors,

....They're usually either cheap or free, and at 50' by 14', absolutely huge.

Anti M
i've been searching for a good floor option for our small dome, maybe this could work. we usually use carpet, but carpet is so huge and hard to pack, and our camp has even more crap to lug out there this year.

so where do i get the stuff? do i just call a bilboard company? know of any?

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BAS
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Post by BAS » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:11 pm

I guess I am lucky, since I live near one of the region's billboard advertisers, so I knew what the name of the outfit is. (For some reason the billboards around here don't have the company's telephone number on them.) I did a web search on the company's name and found their (national) website and the website for the Outdoor Advertising Association of Wisconsin. After poking around both websites I found the e-mail address of the outfit near where I live and sent them a message asking if they had any surplus billboard tarps. Today they got back to me and told me that they would have some by early August.

I am thinking about using the stuff to cover a yurt, and as a floor in the yurt. I'm not certain how much material this will ultimately take. I am thinking that I will have to put some windows in as well as the roof vent and having the lower part of the walls rolls up, since the stuff doesn't breathe. For the windows, though, I will want to have some sort of covering for dust storms and/or rain.... Hmm....


Recently I have started monitoring the local FreeCycle list, to see if any useful stuff shows up there. (I also have some stuff I should post for give away on there, I just need to work on the "parting with stuff I no longer need" part! :roll: )

This should get interesting! :)

(Just an update from me up here in Wisconsin.)
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Post by AntiM » Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:01 am

Finding vinyls sometimes takes a bit of research. The name of the company is usually at the bottom of the billboard, then you can either do an internet search for their local number, or if you're lucky, they'll be in the phone book. Ogden is a smallish town, but we have an outdoor advertiser just a dozen blocks away. Outdoor advertising, that's the search keyword.

They do make good floors which can be swept, but on dusty days they MUST be swept. Do bring some smaller carpet pieces for seating and lounging areas, and as "doormats" in front of your tents. Carpet does hold dust, which is an advantage in some ways. Oh, and vinyls are pretty darn heavy full size, you'll need a place to unroll it flat for cutting. A cutting session can take up our whole front yard, and we have to move quickly or it begins to kill the grass within a half hour.

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BAS
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Post by BAS » Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:07 pm

The research I did probably sounded harder than it was-- the most difficult part being navigating the sign company's web site... :roll:

Hmm. I hadn't thought much about the cutting aspect. I'll probably have to haul the darned thing all the way up to my parents' place in the Baraboo area. OTOH, I'd probably have to do so anyway, since I was planing on borrowing my dad's workshop to cut boards, and my parents' yard to set the thing up and find out how good a job I did/didn't do.... :wink:

I king of thought I might stick some rugs inside the yurt anyway, since I don't know how pleasant the vinyl would be on barefeet when the weather is warm, anyway. (I do have some decades old carpet samples around here somewhere, I think, maybe I can stitch them together? Or maybe I can just find some old carpets at a yardsale or someplace.)

Thanks!
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Do things that have never been done."
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robotland
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Post by robotland » Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:50 am

I also wonder about vinyl underfoot if/when it rains.....

Hey, if you've got family in Baraboo, have you visited The Forevertron? I was planning on stopping there on my way to BRC and would love an update!
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'stine
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buying new tarps

Post by 'stine » Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:49 am

There's 19 listings for new silver tarps on eBay.

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'stine
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other possibilities

Post by 'stine » Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:12 am

The brewery where I work throws away hundreds of white plastic mesh, clear plastic lined 25 KG bags used to ship durst pilsner malt on pallets. Lying flat they measure 36 x 18 inches each. They're light but strong. I'm gonna investigate sewing them together to make a shade structure. Ya'll might check out if this reusable form of trash is available in your area.

I have also been gifted (somebody else caused the kitten to be killed, Captain) a Size 2 military Tarpaulin - green on one side, bright yellow/orange on the other. Grommets every two feet. The formal notice on one side says, "For use with survival kits. May be used as a signal, a campuflage cloth, a sunshade or tent, or for catching drinking water." Even comes with a nifty chart of signals which can be made by folding the tarp - like "Have abandoned plane, walking in this direction." I would think it would hold up well under Playa conditions. Anybody have info on why I shouldn't use/bring it as well?

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Post by pokiedot » Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:28 am

robotland wrote:I also wonder about vinyl underfoot if/when it rains.....

Hey, if you've got family in Baraboo, have you visited The Forevertron? I was planning on stopping there on my way to BRC and would love an update!
oooh. yeah. that might suck.

but then again, wet carpet sucks too.. i can't think of any floor covering that would deal with rain well. hmm.

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