Tents

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:41 pm

Just checking out the options for something new and different next year and came across this:
http://www.shelter-systems.com/reliefte ... first.html

What does everyone think? Playa Worthy?

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:44 pm

I did a Shelter Systems dome this last year. Wrote about it somewhere else on this board. Overall i like them though they tend to be a bit pricey compared to making something similar yourself.

The material is strong but the PVC framing leaves a lot to be desired if you're planning on supporting weight of any kind.

68barracuda · Post by **68barracuda** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 9:37 pm

Chai,

I saw those polygon shelters also and considered the pvc poles to be to weak considering the span of some of pieces and the extreme conditions of the playa. But, I think if you were to build one using 1 1/4" conduit you probably could hang two or three people from the center verticies. And what about the height Badger? It looks kind of short compared to the gentleman standing at the doorway. I like the 1V polygon on www.desertdomes.com but wonder about its stability verses the playa winds. I got the first 40 pieces of 10' 3/4" EMT cut with my miterbox saw tonight and my local Home Despot just got some more conduit in yesterday so tomorrow another 500+ feet will get loaded up in the ol' Dodge. As a note don't leave the fabric dust catcher on the saw when cutting metal with an abrasive blade.. I about caught the damn thing on fire because the bag still had wood shavings in it.. Dumb..Dumbdiddy..diddy do....

Mike

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:04 am

The SS dome I had was a different model and one that was about 7.5-8' high in the center.

I agree with the idea that for a V1 dome the struts ARE way too long but an advantage is that it does keep it low to the ground and probably goes some way towards not having to deal with bif wind issues.

A dome specific point to consider is that a 5' pole length should be the MAXIMUM lenght to consider in deciding what vectoring combo to go with (V1, V2, V3, etc.) in that if your formula suggests a pole longer than 5' say if you're going with a V1 config then you might want to bump up t a V2 thereby shortening the pole legth.

Note that there is no hard and fast rule here only a gut based ROT when considering dimensions and such.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:51 am

WE used a 10x20 car port 03. 145$w/side walls. That nice rip-stop plastic is hotter than hell. I'm going to gardeners shade for a sitting room this year. Center camp uses it. I plane to drape the sun side with losse lite sail cloth. Let the heat out. OUr car port traped the heat about head high. My por old brain has been cooked enough.

ScottV · Post by **ScottV** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:31 pm

I go with a 6' strut length since that is the bed length of just about any mini pickup truck. The next size up is 6'6'' then 8'. I would build to your longest transportation capabilities - since the low freq domes require long struts to get any height.

ScottV

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:53 pm

Whatever length won't bend too much when you stand on it.

antron · Post by **antron** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:25 pm

our neighbors used one of these domes last year. it was really easy to set up. and since the cover was made up of several pieces, it was well ventillated. i would guess it was a 15' dome, more or less. four of us assembled it comfortably. it had no problems in the wind.

this is no thunderdome. the pvc they used flexed lots. i'm not sure anything more rigid could be assembled using the same technique, but it had no trouble supporting itself in 03 winds.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:29 pm

Park it downwind of vehicles in camp, throw extra rope over the thing and stake it off, add some camo netting, etc.

And think about silk-screening or stencilling the thing. It looks like it belongs in a biohazard quarantine zone.

68barracuda · Post by **68barracuda** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:52 pm

Whoo whooo! Just got finished assembling my first 16.5' dome. I had to re-drill all the conduit pieces with a 3/8 drill bit to have a little more room for adjustment and settling. I had drilled 11/32" holes. I am using 5/16" by 2" bolts but had to run to Home Depot for a 4" all thread bolt to tighten up a few pieces near the top. It took about an hour to assemble by myself, once I re-drilled the holes. When I get the 5/16" eyebolts I ordered It will be a hell of a lot easier to assemble the dome because I will only need a wrench and a short piece of pipe. Only 5 more small ones to go....

Mike

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:53 am

I learned a trick for tightening those last coupla stubborn vertices- Buy either a long (6") bolt or threaded eyelet and use it to fasten up all of the relevant struts- wiggle the bolt around as you tighten it, so as to center all of the holes, which you have thoughtfully drilled a little bigger than necessary-Once it's tight, clamp it with your handy lockjaw pliers (I prefer the longnosed kind) and unscrew the bolt. Swap it out for your regular fastener of choice. (Grade 5 bolts from the farm store- buy 'em by the pound!) Of course, you COULD just leave the longer bolt or eye in there, but if, like me, your dome is your monkeybars as well as your shelter then you're bound to take some damage from those suckers eventually...... I connect all of my structures with 3/8" bolts, no longer than 2", and washers that fit SNUGLY and are as thick as I can find. They'll still Pringle on you if you tighten them enough, and the bolthead can pop through a loose-fitting washer. A deep-well socket helps reduce knuckleshred, too. Lockjaws, socket set and crescent wrench is yer basic conduit dome tool kit, says I.

Kinetic II · Post by **Kinetic II** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:49 am

68B, would you be kind enough to share those strut length measurements? My math stinks and I couldn't get the strut lengths right the last time I tried to build one. Your dome would be the perfect size for my basecamp structure this year.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:26 pm

http://www.desertdomes.com/dome.html

....sorry that didn't copy as a link- This site Knows All, and features the Fabulous Dome Calculator which will give you the strut lengths that you crave...BTW, a frequency 2 that's just a wee bit larger can be made with one cut per conduit length. (5.3'/4.7', yielding a dome of about 18' diameter.) I suggest 3/4" conduit for this, and wouldn't trust a strut any longer than these.....(without support)

68barracuda · Post by **68barracuda** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:58 pm

Strut lenths from 10' piece of 3/4" conduit Actually measures at 10' 1/8 to 3/16" from Home Depot. Spend the extra 71 cents each piece for the 3/4"

2V Dome

A= 5' 3 5/8"
B= 4' 8 3/8"

I used 5/16" bolts and it was necessary to drill holes at 3/8" for wiggle room. NO LESS THAN GRADE 5 BOLTS

Actual measurement across inside of dome at 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock was 16' 9 7/8" once tightened up.

I also used a bench grinder to smooth edges where crimped together and flash hole from drilling. An extra step but the fingers I save might just be my own!

I used an angle set to verify 18degree bend on A struts and 16degree on B struts. I had problems only with the top 5 verticies and thats why I ran out to get a 4" bolt.

Mike

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:23 pm

Robotland,

Try here:

http://www.desertdomes.com/domecalc.html

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:50 am

Forgive me for bearing false witness- I was measuring across the widest part of a dome at least a good foot out of round....it had deformed to accomodate uneven terrain.....I never sweated an inch on any of my measurements to begin with, and never once have I measured out 18 degrees. Eyeball plus tightening equals "correct", ah figger.......

Diadochi04 · Post by **Diadochi04** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:18 am

How do you flatten the ends of the conduit and bend it to the right angles? Do you use a bench vise or some kind of specialised tool to set the angles? And if your not climbing on it why not use 1/2 conduit for a small dome?

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 9:50 am

Diadochi04 wrote:How do you flatten the ends of the conduit and bend it to the right angles? Do you use a bench vise or some kind of specialised tool to set the angles?

People use cheap big vises, anvils, and/or presses from Harbor Freight, and suchlike.

And if your not climbing on it why not use 1/2 conduit for a small dome?

Who said climbing on it? My ref to standing on the struts was toward suggesting a rough measure of how it would stand up to wind and other stresses.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:05 am

Diadochi04 wrote:How do you flatten the ends of the conduit and bend it to the right angles? Do you use a bench vise or some kind of specialised tool to set the angles? And if your not climbing on it why not use 1/2 conduit for a small dome?

I flatten with a 4 lb. hammer and anvil, with the conduit leaning on the anvil at approximately the correct angle- Pounding it flat sets the angle without having to stress the metal with an additional bend, weakening it slightly. I've never had or seen one fail at the ends, though perhaps Bob has in his far more vast experience. The failure seems to come mostly in the middle, when a strut that can't take the weight or wind load folds up and trashes the integrity of the whole structure. I have made small spheres and domes with 1/2" that were plenty tough, but where a strut's longer than 18" or so I upgrade.

68barracuda · Post by **68barracuda** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:10 pm

I want to finish my dome's struts differently than leaving them plain. Personal reasons nothing more or less. Galvanized and Aluminium primer works great on conduit. I've used it in construction and it works pretty damn good as a base for latex paints. POR 15 is another primer that works as well but three times as expensive. I also can powder coat the pieces as well and that isn't that all that expensive since I have access to the equipment but it does cost more than painting.

I used a $60 vice from Home Depot to flatten one end then an arbor press from Harbor Freight $40 and a alignment jig made from an 18" 2 by 4 with a slot cut so that the flattened ends are in alignment, for the other.
Follow this link to see some of the same tools I've used in constructing my dome.
http://www.snapsite.com/snapsite/guests ... age20.html

I did a few things different than he has but he has excellent step by step instructions and photos of the stuff Sara at Desertdomes.com has drawn out in her instructions.

Besides the uneven ground angles not bent at least close to the proper angle will make your dome oblong. I assembled mine on a level concrete driveway around a circle made by a nail in an expansion joint, a piece of string, and a piece of chalk. I took a lot of care to keep mine as round as possible because I will be suspending a fabric enclosure inside the conduit and there will be a finite amount of adjustment at each verticies where the fabric attaches.

How ever you decide to build yours is up to you. I prefer precision to brute force, some people don't. The results are the same reguardless. Its a structure that you built with your own hands, be proud of it.

Mike

Other sources of information and photos:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepage ... nduitd.htm
http://www.snapsite.com/guests/hoco/pub ... age19.html

Diadochi04 · Post by **Diadochi04** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:27 pm

How big is the arbor press?

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 3:35 pm

How do you flatten the ends of the conduit and bend it to the right angles?

What I've done is to first pinch all of the ends of all poles with a huge vise. Then I come back and set the pinched ends into the vise which is set up on a table next to a very tall wall. I mark the wall where I believe 18 degrees (for a V2) is against the axis and bend accordingly.

have to mention that the pinching of the poles is the most labor intensive part of the construction. That should change this year as I've discovered an old 3ton pneumatic press that should make the job much easier.

68barracuda · Post by **68barracuda** » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:12 pm

This is the press I have..
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/taf/Di ... umber=3552
It is a pain to use but effective

This is the one I'm going to get next paycheck.. Its da bomb!
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=44811

Mike

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:41 am

My Harbor Freight vise is splitting open at the anvil end, but I did get about four years out of it. An old flea market vise might be a better bet for vising, and an old railroad rail or a hardwood stump for pounding -- wrt a press from Harbor Freight I'd tend toward something an order of magnitude stronger than you think you need.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:47 am

The small 1 ton Harbor Freight arbor press is not worth the money. I bought one to flatten 1/2 conduit and even with a cheater bar on the handle it was a POS and a royal pain to deal with. I'd seriously look at the larger press, or the second link that 68 Barracuda posted. My arbor press is now sitting in my basement collecting dust and I wish I had never bought it. But I can't find a cost effective way to get rid of it as nobody else wants it either.

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:13 am

For end-flattening I find anvil-smashing to be very effective but somewhat of a workout- If you end up using a press but HAVE an anvil of sorts, I recommend "pre-smashing", or lining up the seam and giving it a smack or two....this creates a flat area which helps speed up the aligning-and-flattening process. The press uses less brute force, but a three or four-pound hammer can be had for five bucks and it only takes a half-dozen smacks to flatten an end. I dream of a massive press with a metal die, cast to impress not only the desired angle but to also cold-punch the hole, all in one huge SQUISH......

P.S.- Wear earplugs when you go smashin', and if you're not a reg'lar smasher, take breaks every ten struts or so and stretch your paws so you don't get blisters......

68barracuda · Post by **68barracuda** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:38 pm

Tancorix,

I use my arbor press for pressing bearings, seals, pintle bearings, leather crafting, forming metal, swaging lead, copper, and other maleable metals. If you want to get rid of your old press I'd be happy to give you a few bucks for it, I can use it.

Robotland,

Thats not a bad idea.. I could make a set of forming dies that squish and cut the hole and another that bends the exact angles. Maybe if I were going into full-time dome production it would make sense.

Mike

Isotopia · Post by **Isotopia** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:36 pm

How do you flatten the ends of the conduit and bend it to the right angles?

Another way is to find a raver, make him lie on his chest in a prone position. Place the pole end about one inch into his mouth and then press your cha-cha heels up against the back of his head until desired flatness (or angle) is achieved.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:40 pm

The amazing uses of ravers! Somebody outta write a book about it! Come to think of it I could collect all the raver tips and get ahold of the people that create the "How to get laid at Burning Man" book and get the two distributed together! I kinda need to look into this!

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 7:52 pm

If dirtnapping ravers cannot be procured, any no. of post-NYE burners may do.

The manoeuver is known among some parts as Teabagging (aka The Nut Cracker Suite).

Tents

Tents

strut length

First 16.5' Dome assembled!!!