I know this has been touched upon in various threads, but I wanted a clear signal on a specific situation.
Our camp is really only 4 people. We have tested that the 4 of us can easily set up and maintain and tear down our whole rig at a regional event. We can do all of this with no drama or ill will. Shit, we do it smiling and joking. Problem is, none of us want to get stuck in camp for the totality of the event. We are all very good friends and would really like the ability to go out together some days and nights but somebody has to mind the store. How do we solve this problem? Am I insane to think it a possibility to recruit from the many strangers/newbies who are looking for a camp? Our no drama, friendly vibe (we are camp hi! after all) is critical to our experience. Am I begging for trouble? Is there another way?
camping with strangers
I've been the stranger in groups in the past and am now returning with a group of people I know. We're struggling with the same question of whether to add more people.
A couple of hints from my experiences:
- Spend as much time with them ahead of time as you can, as early as you can. Have BBQs, work days, etc. This gives you some time to get to know them and get some idea of their work ethic. If you realize it just won't work out, they still have time to find someone else to camp with.
- When you need them to run something, make sure they feel needed and have something fun to do. If you just keep them on as a baby sitter or security guard while you're off having fun, they'll quickly tire of it and wander away. If they're running the show, meeting people, and feel some responsibility for what's happening they'll have an easier time getting into it.
- Make sure you're fully equipped to handle the extra people in your camp. An overflowing gray water pool and not enough shade to go around can stress you out even if the extra people are cool.
- When recruiting, be as clear as possible about the type of group you are and what you expect from the new people.
A couple of hints from my experiences:
- Spend as much time with them ahead of time as you can, as early as you can. Have BBQs, work days, etc. This gives you some time to get to know them and get some idea of their work ethic. If you realize it just won't work out, they still have time to find someone else to camp with.
- When you need them to run something, make sure they feel needed and have something fun to do. If you just keep them on as a baby sitter or security guard while you're off having fun, they'll quickly tire of it and wander away. If they're running the show, meeting people, and feel some responsibility for what's happening they'll have an easier time getting into it.
- Make sure you're fully equipped to handle the extra people in your camp. An overflowing gray water pool and not enough shade to go around can stress you out even if the extra people are cool.
- When recruiting, be as clear as possible about the type of group you are and what you expect from the new people.
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DangerMouse
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:27 am
- Burning Since: 2004
- Camp Name: Bacon Lube - The 8th Food Group
- Location: Seattle, WA
I heartily second the recommendation to spend time together before the event. BBQs and work days are especially good ideas because cooking and building your project are good proxies for what you'll be working on in the desert.
My first year, I camped with a group of people, most of whom didn't know each other before our camp formed. The only interpersonal conflicts we experienced were with folks who hadn't been present at a majority of the work days and get-to-know-you events.
My first year, I camped with a group of people, most of whom didn't know each other before our camp formed. The only interpersonal conflicts we experienced were with folks who hadn't been present at a majority of the work days and get-to-know-you events.
My advice would be to just start talking to a few people. If you start getting a bad vibe or still find yourself worried how it'll work out after a couple of conversations, it's probably not meant to be. On the other hand you might find that someone just seems to fit right in and is able to contribute ideas and energy that totally mesh with what you want to do. If someone seems like a good potential candidate, give them a little responsibility test. Have them organize a small event, pull together a piece of camp equipment (shower, shade, kitchen setup) or something. If they're flakey off playa, you can only imagine what they'll be like when the real craziness starts.
Finally make sure they can take care of themselves. Had a guy call up last year wanting a ride. When asked why he wanted to go he said he'd never really considered going before but had just been through a bad divorce and it sounded like a good place to get waisted and laid. When asked what gear he'd be bringing he responded "umm....hmm...some water I guess , oh and maybe a tent or something." Yeah, this was less than two weeks before gates opened and he hadn't even read the survival guide.
Finally make sure they can take care of themselves. Had a guy call up last year wanting a ride. When asked why he wanted to go he said he'd never really considered going before but had just been through a bad divorce and it sounded like a good place to get waisted and laid. When asked what gear he'd be bringing he responded "umm....hmm...some water I guess , oh and maybe a tent or something." Yeah, this was less than two weeks before gates opened and he hadn't even read the survival guide.
When in doubt, push the [size=134][color=red][b]RED[/b][/color][/size] button!
Hey Stuart,
I'm looking for a camp to join.
What exactly do you mean by "mind the store"? I looked at your website and I'm guessing that you'll need someone to help run projector/sound equipment (I'm a qualified technician) and keep the place clean, but it sounds like you all really have your act together. Are you just looking for someone to help make sure nothing grows legs?
Basically, what do you expect of those who would join your camp?
I'm looking for a camp to join.
What exactly do you mean by "mind the store"? I looked at your website and I'm guessing that you'll need someone to help run projector/sound equipment (I'm a qualified technician) and keep the place clean, but it sounds like you all really have your act together. Are you just looking for someone to help make sure nothing grows legs?
Basically, what do you expect of those who would join your camp?
Re: camping with strangers
the hard thing about recruiting people you don't know for me is that, in order for it to really feel like everybody's camp, you have to relinquish at least a little creative control to the newbies. as far as my camp goes, i feel like the new campers deserve to feel just as invested as everyone else, and the only way to make it feel like their camp is to let them have input on what goes on. this is really hard for an established camp that's found it's groove, and it can be very disrupting or very inspirational, depending on how you look at it.stuart wrote:How do we solve this problem? Am I insane to think it a possibility to recruit from the many strangers/newbies who are looking for a camp? Our no drama, friendly vibe (we are camp hi! after all) is critical to our experience. Am I begging for trouble? Is there another way?
but everyone elses advice is pretty right on.. spend as much time as possible with the prospective campers. for people we don't know, our camp has an extensive recruitment process that includes writing a haiku or love song about your favorite sci-fi movie.. i'm not kidding! but we have yet to recruit a stranger.. hmmm... what's this saying about us? har har.
anyways... my advice is to be prepared for collaboration... that sounds obvious, but it's one of those things that's sometimes harder in practice than in theory.
hmm, hmm
involving others in the creative realm. Tough one. What goes on the screens is done soley by me. However, there are other opportunities to theme the camp.
hmm, hmm
hi! is a democratically controlled dicatorship.
hmm, hmm
Z - this thread was started as me thinking out loud and looking for advice, not as a recuitment drive. But, since you asked... All your assumptions were pretty spot on. The vid rig is a bit wacky with my cluge job of syncing 3 DVD players but not difficult. Of course we don't want nothin' stolen. Our MO is smiley and inviting so being a cheery inclusive host is important. I was considering having a walkie talkie on me when I left camp so that I could be 'on call' but my partners reminded me that I was insane and so I have dropped that idea.
hmm
involving others in the creative realm. Tough one. What goes on the screens is done soley by me. However, there are other opportunities to theme the camp.
hmm, hmm
hi! is a democratically controlled dicatorship.
hmm, hmm
Z - this thread was started as me thinking out loud and looking for advice, not as a recuitment drive. But, since you asked... All your assumptions were pretty spot on. The vid rig is a bit wacky with my cluge job of syncing 3 DVD players but not difficult. Of course we don't want nothin' stolen. Our MO is smiley and inviting so being a cheery inclusive host is important. I was considering having a walkie talkie on me when I left camp so that I could be 'on call' but my partners reminded me that I was insane and so I have dropped that idea.
hmm
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dragonfly Jafe
- Posts: 1877
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:08 am
- Location: the Oregon Trail
I am dealing with this by having an "expectation" sheet that everyone signs. I know, I know "bring no expectations". BUT - by making some things clear up front I am hoping to minimize camp drama in the desert. Things like:
NO loud music after 11pm in camp (period)
NO generators fired up in camp before 10am
EVERYONE MUST participate in MOOP patrol
EVERYONE MUST work a kitchen shift
EVERYONE MUST work an art vehicle shift
EVERYONE MUST contribute a minimum of 2 hours work for BM
EVERYONE MUST know and follow the recycling system
EVERYONE MUST bring at least 1 bag of trash home with them (pick well!)
people who fail to do these minimums will be excluded from camping with us next year.
At least having their signiture means they can't say they didn't know...YMMV.... walk-up campers would be less concerned with next year's fall-out.
regards - Jafe
NO loud music after 11pm in camp (period)
NO generators fired up in camp before 10am
EVERYONE MUST participate in MOOP patrol
EVERYONE MUST work a kitchen shift
EVERYONE MUST work an art vehicle shift
EVERYONE MUST contribute a minimum of 2 hours work for BM
EVERYONE MUST know and follow the recycling system
EVERYONE MUST bring at least 1 bag of trash home with them (pick well!)
people who fail to do these minimums will be excluded from camping with us next year.
At least having their signiture means they can't say they didn't know...YMMV.... walk-up campers would be less concerned with next year's fall-out.
regards - Jafe
I've been running an "open" camp for the last 7 years. That is to say that beyond our core group of dedicated people we have (and will) allow anyone to camp with us as long as they play well with others and ask nicely to join us.
Everyone that camps with us gets the same welcome speech it goes something like this:
"Hi! Welcome to our camp! This is a CYOA (Cover Your Own Ass) and No Drama Camp. If you need anything please feel free to ask for help, as we have all kinds of tools and expertise here. Cocktails and potluck are just before sunset everynight, participation is strictly voluntary, and you don't have to bring food or drinks to just socialize. The showers are for everybody but we pack out our own grey water and this is a leave no trace camp. We ask that everyone spend 1 hour cleaning up the common areas before you leave and we ask that you take at least one bag of common area trash with you if possible. We ask that you not play recorded music so loud that it can be heard by your neighbor if anyone makes a request to turn it down we ask that you turn it off. Any problems feel, free to talk to any camp leader or myself. Now take this mojito and come sit down with us for a while before you unpack your shit."
In 7 years there has only been one person who we have not asked back, we usually have 40 people camping with us, and generally 5-10 of those people just found us on the playa and asked to camp with us on the spot.
Everyone that camps with us gets the same welcome speech it goes something like this:
"Hi! Welcome to our camp! This is a CYOA (Cover Your Own Ass) and No Drama Camp. If you need anything please feel free to ask for help, as we have all kinds of tools and expertise here. Cocktails and potluck are just before sunset everynight, participation is strictly voluntary, and you don't have to bring food or drinks to just socialize. The showers are for everybody but we pack out our own grey water and this is a leave no trace camp. We ask that everyone spend 1 hour cleaning up the common areas before you leave and we ask that you take at least one bag of common area trash with you if possible. We ask that you not play recorded music so loud that it can be heard by your neighbor if anyone makes a request to turn it down we ask that you turn it off. Any problems feel, free to talk to any camp leader or myself. Now take this mojito and come sit down with us for a while before you unpack your shit."
In 7 years there has only been one person who we have not asked back, we usually have 40 people camping with us, and generally 5-10 of those people just found us on the playa and asked to camp with us on the spot.
Plan For Spontanaiety -- Meet New Peeps
chai guy makes a great case -- love the cyoa and low drama tone --
after a few years of various "who hasn't signed up for a shift" angst and other surplus drama -- this year, me and the gf launched "officially" launched our sketchy loner-camp strategy -- we poked around and sensitively asked in the area we liked theme camps for a little sliver of "west bank" along their border lines...
it worked real good -- in fact our little chill space drew campers from all points who wanted a loose vibe, and friendly sharings -- i'd do it again
a sad thing was that we saw the vibe go south in a number a bigger to-dos and felt for them -- i even felt a little guilty for not trying to perk them up (as if i could)
funny thing is, the people we were near were the the kind of folks we'd probably plan to camp with anyway -- but without the additional stress and overwrought planning...
after a few years of various "who hasn't signed up for a shift" angst and other surplus drama -- this year, me and the gf launched "officially" launched our sketchy loner-camp strategy -- we poked around and sensitively asked in the area we liked theme camps for a little sliver of "west bank" along their border lines...
it worked real good -- in fact our little chill space drew campers from all points who wanted a loose vibe, and friendly sharings -- i'd do it again
a sad thing was that we saw the vibe go south in a number a bigger to-dos and felt for them -- i even felt a little guilty for not trying to perk them up (as if i could)
funny thing is, the people we were near were the the kind of folks we'd probably plan to camp with anyway -- but without the additional stress and overwrought planning...