Newb question about camp size?

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Royal Turkey
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Newb question about camp size?

Post by Royal Turkey » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:28 pm

Ok planning for my first Burn this year 2014, been doing my research and lurking on the forums, but I haven't been able to find a good answer for the following question:

How much space am I likely to have available for my a small camp? Its just two people we will be coming in a rental 10' or 12' box truck to sleep in, but I am wanting to build a pretty open tensegrity shade structure/3-hammock stand. Including the guy points it is a 14' radius hexagon so about 28' diameter circle of space measuring around the tips of the rebar. I have about 100' of reflective cord to string over my guy lines to warn the wary traveler, and cap all the rebar of course..

But as a couple noobs rolling in without being members of a larger camp or anything whats the protocol? whats considered polite when setting up vs. a land grab?

Its a lot of space for just two of us, but we don't mind sharing the shade or an open hammock, The whole idea would be to have a open area to see people and interact instead of hiding swampcooler/box truck the whole time. I think it could be an asset to our neighbors, I figure we can say hello to whomever we pull up next to and coordinate a little, but I don't really understand the process of when you come in, how you get a spot? How quickly does it fill in around you?

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MrBeardy
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by MrBeardy » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:41 pm

If you two camp out by J/K/L, you should have a ton of open space to do what you want, provided you get there Monday or so. My only suggestion would be to only take what you really need, as the city is growing and space is going to become more and more limited. that said the outside streets still remain pretty open and spacious compared to A-H areas

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Savannah
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by Savannah » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:48 pm

What you're currently planning to do is probably fine. There are not hard-&-fast rules as to how much room you get. If you're registered and placed, you go where Placement has put you, and of course adhere to what your camp's internal guidelines are. (Theme Camps keep track of their own numbers, the approximate footprint requested by each, and generally have a person or two assigned to guide people into the right spot).

If you're not placed, you'll avoid Theme Camp areas on the map released in July (and given at Greeters). Generally, the more room you want, the further out you'll wanna be. Don't take more than you can use, and don't fret too hard in advance, either. It will be much easier to see in person what is typical.

Lots of info here:

Where Do I Camp?
http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=29356

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by LowePro » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:54 pm

Think about a logical, compact way to arrange your vehicle and structures and determine how much space you really need, a sketch can really help with this. With a smaller footprint, you're more like to find a spot of adequate size to squeeze in where you want to be. Finding a site at night is tough so you need to be able to assess whether a spot is big enough to accommodate you or not so you don't waste time driving around.

And as the week progresses, little spaces will get filled in around you, so don't try to grab too much open space and assume that someone won't set up a tent there in the middle of Wednesday night. Just be ready to be adaptable and roll with the changes, and you should be fine with a small camp. When in doubt, aim further away from Center Camp as it takes a few days for the suburbs to fill in.

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BBadger
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by BBadger » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:14 pm

Note that even the unreserved outer rings will fill in as the week progresses, especially considering how full it was this year. So get there early and demarcate your area with your large immovable objects (cars, tents, etc.) so that lone campers or late-arrivals can't sneak into empty spaces. That said, don't get greedy. Reserving large spaces at the expense of others makes you just as much an asshole as the person reserving whole rows in a movie theater for late family members.

Still, if you actually use the space, by all means you'll be entitled to it. Having a Costco carport or something in the center of your camp, surrounded by your vehicles and sleeping accommodations creates a nice communal area. Arriving there early will ensure you get a claim on the space you need.
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:41 pm

MrBeardy wrote:... the city is growing...
Is it? Is BLM going to raise the population cap this year after the llc's selling too many tickets?
Savannah wrote:... you'll avoid Theme Camp areas on the map released in July...
Addresses are released in July, we don't see the camp before greeters.
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Asquared
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by Asquared » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:04 pm

i was in your situation this year (minus the large shade structure) - 2 people and a box truck. here's what worked for us:

-we arrived on monday (gates open sunday night, but i didn't want to be looking at night having never been before)

-we started looking for a spot on H, not too far out, but not too close in either

-anywhere we saw a spot that looked good, we'd pull in. the passenger would get out and speak to the surrounding campers (it can be a bit daunting. just be nice, most of the people were very nice and even invited us back for a drink once we found a spot. there were a couple of rudies). we had to do this about 8 times before we found a spot that people weren't using. we finally found a small sliver of space next to a very large area the neighbors had reserved - that large space went unused the entire week :/
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Savannah
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by Savannah » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:06 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
MrBeardy wrote:... the city is growing...
Is it? Is BLM going to raise the population cap this year after the llc's selling too many tickets?
Savannah wrote:... you'll avoid Theme Camp areas on the map released in July...
Addresses are released in July, we don't see the camp before greeters.
(I meant the map of where the Theme Camp areas are, which is available prior to the Burn . . . not where specific camps are.)
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:45 am

How much space am I likely to have available for my a small camp?
If you can take it, you can have it.
if you can hold it, you can keep it.

Like all things in life.

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Token
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by Token » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:09 pm

The way I see things is a bit different.

If the space looks available and I like it, it's mine.

If some asshat is land grabbing and didn't have enough sense to actually occupy the space ...

Fuck yer day.

But that's me. I got no time for asshats.

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by BBadger » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:30 am

Lonesomebri wrote:If you can take it, you can have it.
if you can hold it, you can keep it.

Like all things in life.
Well for countries, that's why we have the UN to settle such disputes ignore the UN's toothless resolutions.
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by dragonpilot » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:44 pm

Everything said so far is good advice. Try to do a mock up of your camp layout weeks prior to your arrival. Use tape to outline vehicles, trucks, tents, kitchen area, shade area...adjust the layout until you're happy with it. No plan survives after the first shot is fired in battle, and this is true on the playa also, but ya gotta have a plan...makes it easier to make adjustments on the fly as necessary.

A daytime arrival within the encampment makes it easier to see what's around you...and that's going to have to be Monday morning. Gate opens at 6 PM on Sunday, but rest assured, you won't get into the perimeter until after sundown. Try to time your arrival at the gate for 3-4 AM Monday morning. You'll still be ahead of the crowd, there'll be plenty of open space, and the sun will be lighting up the sky as you roll into a potential campsite. Have water and food available while you're setting up and try not to do too much all at once...just get your space laid out ASAP, eat, hydrate, rest...and add finishing touches later. Don't be in a rush to go out exploring...take it easy...there's plenty of time for that.
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by CaffeineGirl » Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:38 pm

Royal Turkey - you might do a search for aerial photos of the city; there are a number that are posted on eplaya and news sites. Those should give you a better idea of overall density and city layout. As noted, things spread out a lot in most of the outer rings. And for some odd reason there are usually huge open areas adjacent to 10 and 2. :wink:

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by dragonpilot » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:07 pm

And don't get the idea that you have to be up front or you'll miss out on all the action. Trust me, there's plenty of action wherever you camp...and sometimes it's a blessing to escape to the 'burbs after a night of carousing for some relative peace and quiet (the operative being "relative").
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by Savannah » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:23 pm

dragonpilot wrote:And don't get the idea that you have to be up front or you'll miss out on all the action. Trust me, there's plenty of action wherever you camp...and sometimes it's a blessing to escape to the 'burbs after a night of carousing for some relative peace and quiet (the operative being "relative").
Agreed. The closest to the inside I ever camped was D street. I was actually a little uncomfortable being that close-in, but I lucked out and was able to sleep.

This year I was camped near a dance club on F Street and I really wish I hadn't been. I'm lucky they didn't play every night.
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FossaFerox
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by FossaFerox » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:10 pm

B street right next two two decently sized dance camps. Would camp there again and again given the opportunity. But then I enjoyed only sleeping ~3 hours a night...
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by Royal Turkey » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:32 pm

Thanks for the the advice!

I will plan on rolling in early monday (perhaps not as early as 4 am :)) Will run through a outer ring.. will check posted maps to avoid dance club theme camps.

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by FossaFerox » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:40 pm

All the major sound camps will be on the 10 and 2 edges. Their sound tends to reach about as far as 9-9:30 when they're at peak volume (Wednesday and Saturday night). If you're land grabbing after sunrise, just be on the look out for large tents with dance floors in them if you're away from the edges. I know near me we only had maybe three serious dance camps away from the 10 o'clock edge (pink mammoth, salon 7, and duck pond) none of which were that loud except for the rager salon 7 threw one night.
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by Savannah » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:50 pm

Duck Pond (of whom I'm quite fond) was actually quite loud, but they didn't play every night, and packed up on Burn Day.
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Savannah wrote:
dragonpilot wrote:And don't get the idea that you have to be up front or you'll miss out on all the action. Trust me, there's plenty of action wherever you camp...and sometimes it's a blessing to escape to the 'burbs after a night of carousing for some relative peace and quiet (the operative being "relative").
Agreed. The closest to the inside I ever camped was D street. I was actually a little uncomfortable being that close-in, but I lucked out and was able to sleep.

This year I was camped near a dance club on F Street and I really wish I hadn't been. I'm lucky they didn't play every night.
I used to sleep like a baby--um, okay, a log--next to the Booby Bar...
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by FossaFerox » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:33 pm

Savannah wrote:Duck Pond (of whom I'm quite fond) was actually quite loud, but they didn't play every night, and packed up on Burn Day.
They were loud, but nothing compared to Osiris, White Ocean, etc. Not the worst of neighbors all things considered. Granted it's not ideal if you want quiet, but if you want quiet what are you doing at Burning Man?

Also, what was the deal with them packing up? thread drift alert My campmates and I tried to stop by on burn night and were mystified when we couldn't find them. I had to swear to my friends that no, this really was the right intersection, they had vanished.
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by Savannah » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:45 pm

FossaFerox wrote:
Savannah wrote:Duck Pond (of whom I'm quite fond) was actually quite loud, but they didn't play every night, and packed up on Burn Day.
They were loud, but nothing compared to Osiris, White Ocean, etc. Not the worst of neighbors all things considered. Granted it's not ideal if you want quiet, but if you want quiet what are you doing at Burning Man?
I'm volunteering at Emergency Services, actually, that's what I'm doing . . . and sometimes I try to sleep before a shift. Is that okay with you? :P

I don't care if it isn't.

Agreed--Duck Pond is not louder than average. Just loud when you're trying to get a few winks before 7:30am. Osiris has to have the most powerful sound system I've ever heard. In 2011--I think it was--I walked by with some friends on Burn Night and we literally could not go inside. Just too painful. So we danced up there at 10:05, 25-50 yards away, gettin' down in the dark. :lol:
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by FossaFerox » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:56 pm

Savannah wrote:
FossaFerox wrote:
Savannah wrote:Duck Pond (of whom I'm quite fond) was actually quite loud, but they didn't play every night, and packed up on Burn Day.
They were loud, but nothing compared to Osiris, White Ocean, etc. Not the worst of neighbors all things considered. Granted it's not ideal if you want quiet, but if you want quiet what are you doing at Burning Man?
I'm volunteering at Emergency Services, actually, that's what I'm doing . . . and sometimes I try to sleep before a shift. Is that okay with you? :P

I don't care if it isn't.

Agreed--Duck Pond is not louder than average. Just loud when you're trying to get a few winks before 7:30am. Osiris has to have the most powerful sound system I've ever heard. In 2011--I think it was--I walked by with some friends on Burn Night and we literally could not go inside. Just too painful. So we danced up there at 10:05, 25-50 yards away, gettin' down in the dark. :lol:
I much prefer my emergency service workers addled and manic. It just wouldn't be a true Burning Man emergency if everyone involved wasn't suffering from sleep dep. :lol:

In all seriousness, my campmates and I were the first ones to find a person face down in the dirt next to some scaffolding in that part of town on burn night, and I was amazed at the response time and professional nature of the rangers who we were able to track down, get to relay the info, and get a car on scene in less time than a 911 call would take to route if you had a heart attack outside a hospital. You guys rock.
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:23 pm

FossaFerox wrote:[...] but if you want quiet what are you doing at Burning Man?
Burningman is a multi-faceted festival, and if you don't like what someone else gets out of it, then what the fuck business is it of yours?
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by FossaFerox » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:04 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
FossaFerox wrote:[...] but if you want quiet what are you doing at Burning Man?
Burningman is a multi-faceted festival, and if you don't like what someone else gets out of it, then what the fuck business is it of yours?
http://bit.ly/tHYEPD
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by GreyCoyote » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:36 pm

Fossa: in 2004 I was gifted a pair of genuine purple foam ear plugs printed with a picture of The Man holding his ears. One of the top 10 bits of swag ever!

Lots of folks would enjoy a quiet space if it was offered. Burning Man is about contrasts, yes?. :mrgreen:

When you hit a dozen burns or so, you will have a different outlook. (but in the interim, party hard, leave no brain cell unfogged, and enjoy your mis-spent youth. For I am you a decade or two ago. Hehehe)
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by FossaFerox » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:42 pm

I was under the impression that quiet space was not hard to find, particularly around the outer streets and the space near kidsville. I was simply making a joke.
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by GreyCoyote » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:44 pm

Ah, Grasshopper... :mrgreen:
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by itsfish20 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:16 pm

This is perfect because I m coming in from Michigan with maybe 2 other people and we wanted to know how big we can make our camp! My plan right now is to use our pickup to get down there and use it as wind block, possibly rent a box van and park the two in a V formation. I have a CostCo carport that I will put between the two and then I plan on building a yurt as well as bringing a smaller tent to keep food and other stuff in.

I want to steak in rebar and hang hammocks all over the place like you guys so we have an open and inviting place to chill and meet fellow burners!
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Re: Newb question about camp size?

Post by FossaFerox » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:29 pm

I've heard mixed reviews of the costco carports and I don't remember seeing any in use this year. Ask yourself. Is it something you'd want out in 40-80 MPH winds? Also, using rebar to stake out a bunch of hammocks outside your camp is kind of a scary idea. That's a lot of angular rebar waiting to impale someone and potentially a lot of wasted space. The city gets pretty dense and while useful space is never really wasted, ask yourself if its worth it.

We had someone ask us to move our shower so they could pitch a couple of tents there. We politely declined when we pointed out that the only way to and from their campsite was through ours and we were fond of our slipshod shower.
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

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