Lag screws vs everything else...

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MacGlenver
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby MacGlenver » Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:23 am

Canoe wrote:There's a reason most building codes require footings on "undisturbed soil".
Once you've got a lag bolt in far enough it will thread itself in the rest of the way. Why drill a loose hole and then try to recover what you could have had for the same effort as drilling that hole...


Fully agree with this statement. Putting the lag bolts in with the right drill (Impact driver) is a piece of cake, and they're INCREDIBLY strong. When I say a piece of cake... im talking like... the easiest and most satisfying thing you can do... Also, the drill/insert/pour water method turns a 3 second job into a 2 minute job that is surely less effective. In fact, I'm not sure that the water pouring method is a good idea at all if we're shooting for strength.

If I didnt need rebar/steel spikes to hold my monkey hut ribs in place, I would sell them all at a loss and stock up on even more lag screws. They're smaller, lighter, don't rust as bad, and won't cut the shit out of you either when carrying or once installed. As it is, we've got easily 150 pounds of rebar that we have to haul around.
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BBadger
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby BBadger » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:23 pm

MacGlenver wrote:Fully agree with this statement. Putting the lag bolts in with the right drill (Impact driver) is a piece of cake, and they're INCREDIBLY strong. When I say a piece of cake... im talking like... the easiest and most satisfying thing you can do... Also, the drill/insert/pour water method turns a 3 second job into a 2 minute job that is surely less effective. In fact, I'm not sure that the water pouring method is a good idea at all if we're shooting for strength.


Ah, I guess I was just thinking that they might be a pain to drill into the ground in the first place, like screwing into a piece of wood without boring a hole first. The playa won't split like wood, but may be a pain to continue to drill into the packed playa with a screw. Plus, the bolt ought to be put in at an angle that doesn't require the threads to give it strength.
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Canoe
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Canoe » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:42 pm

BBadger wrote:... Plus, the bolt ought to be put in at an angle that doesn't require the threads to give it strength.

Something so many seem to forget when they're trying to compare solutions.

The exception might be where the angle with the pulling load will be limited. Say when anchoring the shade cloth over a monkeyhut close to the ground?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FossaFerox » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:46 pm

All of my guy lines come in at about 37 degrees, but with the added hold of the threading compared to a straight stake (like rebar) I think going straight down with a lag bolt to get it into more of the harder sub playa is probably ideal.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby ygmir » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:41 pm

just to add to it:
there are two theories of "anchors".
one, is the common "angle to the load" where the load pulls sideways, and a lot of the hold relates to surface of the stake vs soil density.

The other is a straight pull, where the hold is from a plate, or wide auger type end, that when pulled, creates an outward cone of compaction against the direction of pull, and the cross section of the stake/anchor has little to do with it.
I used to hand dig, and set utility pole anchors, made for long term hold on pretty high loads. they work on the second theory.

one advantage to that, is, the anchor is in line with the rope/cable and no top is sticking up, as it points along the line of stress and is attached at the top.

maybe there are more anchoring methods.. those are the two I know, for ground/soil anchors.
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Shoeshine
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Shoeshine » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:35 pm

Ill chime in to say that my cheap Ryobi impact driver worked just fine for putting in 12" lags, in fact so easy that I'll just bring a ton more. When in doubt, use another because they are so easy to get in and out.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby moonrise » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:27 am

I still have mine Figjam.

I'm holding onto them for either the shade structure (that you designed for me) to go over the horsetrailer or a portable stage combo windscreen for the ~Volcano fire cocktail show~ or both!

As soon as these controlled burn fires die down and the snow stops falling...I'll be tuning and driving Golficus Carticus II all around my neighborhood and into the forest next to the ski shack (with a video screen playing Camp Envy mounted to the dashboard, we hope!) Woohoo!
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FossaFerox » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:24 pm

Going to run the inverter/impact wrench costs by the group. Worst case scenario, I suppose I could always rely on a battery powered tool to drive them in. Think this would hack it? I'm sure I can find a socket that will fit the bit no problem...

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Sunbeam56 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:38 pm

Comared to that? Id rely on drunken, dizzy participants...
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BBadger
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby BBadger » Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:55 pm

FossaFerox wrote:Going to run the inverter/impact wrench costs by the group. Worst case scenario, I suppose I could always rely on a battery powered tool to drive them in. Think this would hack it? I'm sure I can find a socket that will fit the bit no problem...


Maybe for a Lego hex yurt!

I was probably just going to use a cordless drill/impact driver. Just remember to buy a decent brand with good batteries.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Joeln » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:21 pm

thats cool Fossa!
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby MrSerious » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:52 am

These arrived today, cost about $2 bucks delivered. I bought 20 of them. I bought a cheap impact driver from harbor freight and they went right in my hard packed clay like butter. Then I backed them out about 4", put a 4' piece of steel pipe around the end, and i couldn't get it to budge with all my weight. Then backed em out. Took about 3 seconds to get them in and out. Sure beats rebar.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:48 pm

:shock: Where did you buy those??
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby MrSerious » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:15 pm


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BBadger
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby BBadger » Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:22 am

Image
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FossaFerox » Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:48 am

I don't know Badger... Sure, that'll grip the subplaya alright, but what if I want to sink lag bolts into the bedrock?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby tatonka » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:44 am

make sure to clean the lag bolts afterward , I left mine dusty awhile and they aquired some surface rust. Took a wire brush and cleaned them up then sprayed them with some oil.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby BBadger » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:15 pm

FossaFerox wrote:I don't know Badger... Sure, that'll grip the subplaya alright, but what if I want to sink lag bolts into the bedrock?


I hear they used those ones for guylining the skyscrapers in NYC.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Jared » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:42 pm

Is a cordless drill going to be any help with these or does it need to be an impact driver?

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby GreyCoyote » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:14 pm

A good cordless works fine, but forget about using some whimpy 6 volt B&D from the kitchen drawer. Make Tim Allen proud. You need some torque. A good stiff 3/8 inch VSR drill powered off a small genny works OK. A 1/2 inch driver is even better. :mrgreen:
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FossaFerox » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:40 pm

Okay. Serious question time because I'm a total newbie when it comes to power tools other than soldering irons. Mac said he used this tool successfully. I'm looking at this tool and wondering if it's comparable without needing the inverter. Same torque (1450 in-lb), same no-load max RPM (2900), same chuck size (quarter inch), but it's cheaper and battery powered. It comes with two 1.5 AH 20V LIon batteries.

My big concern is that I'm missing something that's obvious to you folks and this tool won't hack it, or that this tool won't have the proper battery life to drive the bolts in and pull them back out at the end of the week (because being stranded would really suck).

Here's where I need help (because I am trying to figure this out on my own):

Napkin math has me nervous. Assuming it takes the same or comparable POWER to drive the tool then the corded version (4.3 A at 120V) is pulling 516 Watts. Off a 20 volt battery that would equate to 25.8 Amp draw. With a 1.5 AH battery that's about 3 minutes and 29 seconds of drive time, all other things being equal. With two batteries that's just under 7 minutes of drive time. At 10 seconds a bolt that's capacity for a mere 20 bolts in and out. My camp would need a LOT more than that. Am I missing something or is the cordless version really that limited?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Sunbeam56 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:47 am

Hey Fossa - if your cordless gives up its purple smoke on the playa. Come find me. I want to meet you anyway.
We can get your structure safed.
I'll "charge" you a little help back. I'm getting too old to go monkey all over the dome. Having someone lighter and younger to do those tip top chores would be welcome.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby EspressoDude » Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:56 am

FossaFerox wrote:I don't know Badger... Sure, that'll grip the subplaya alright, but what if I want to sink lag bolts into the bedrock?


If your bed's rocking and you need lag bolts for a grip, you probably are going to sink
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby andy » Tue May 13, 2014 1:59 pm

[quote="Joeln"]If I put my tent where it has substantial wind protection from nearby structures shouldn't the 12 inch 3/8 nail be sufficient?
[/quote]

Remember, many people leave either Saturday night after the burn or Sunday night after the burn. If you're counting on wind protection, it might disappear before you need it to!

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Just_Joe » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:53 am

I just bought a box (50) of the 3/8" x 14" lags and probably only need half of them.
If anyone needs some but doesn't want to splurge a whole box, let me know. They were $1.10 ea.
I've got a few extra of the 1/2" x 18"
Pick up in Carson City anytime or BRC in late Aug.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby mudpuppy000 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:19 pm

FossaFerox wrote:Okay. Serious question time because I'm a total newbie when it comes to power tools other than soldering irons. Mac said he used this tool successfully. I'm looking at this tool and wondering if it's comparable without needing the inverter. Same torque (1450 in-lb), same no-load max RPM (2900), same chuck size (quarter inch), but it's cheaper and battery powered. It comes with two 1.5 AH 20V LIon batteries.

My big concern is that I'm missing something that's obvious to you folks and this tool won't hack it, or that this tool won't have the proper battery life to drive the bolts in and pull them back out at the end of the week (because being stranded would really suck).

Here's where I need help (because I am trying to figure this out on my own):

Napkin math has me nervous. Assuming it takes the same or comparable POWER to drive the tool then the corded version (4.3 A at 120V) is pulling 516 Watts. Off a 20 volt battery that would equate to 25.8 Amp draw. With a 1.5 AH battery that's about 3 minutes and 29 seconds of drive time, all other things being equal. With two batteries that's just under 7 minutes of drive time. At 10 seconds a bolt that's capacity for a mere 20 bolts in and out. My camp would need a LOT more than that. Am I missing something or is the cordless version really that limited?


I tried lag screws for the first time out at the vegas regional. The ground was insanely hard, a mix of gravel/rocks/sand, but a Ryobi impact driver was able to drive 8", 3/8" screws in with no problem. I think they run about $100 with the Li+ batteries.

Interestingly, we had some 3/8" screws and something thinner, but still 8" long. The thicker ones held much better, at least in that type of ground.

As far as strength, our carport held solid even when it took a direct hit from a dust devil that sent other shelters flying.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Rainbowmama » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:12 am

Got my bolts, my impact driver, now I'm trying to figure out how I'm supposed to secure my guy lines (that are a loop that slips over the usual tent pegs) to the chain links?? I still need to purchase the links and have them cut, but wanted to make sure that's what I'd need before I do that.

Also building a box cooler (got everything but the box and duracool pad) and marine battery power source. Figjam, I owe you a big kiss. You are making this first burn sooooo much more doable for us!

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby chuckularone » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:55 am

Just ordered my lag bolts! Next up getting some chain and digging out my bolt cutters.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby maladroit » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:09 pm

Rainbowmama wrote:Got my bolts, my impact driver, now I'm trying to figure out how I'm supposed to secure my guy lines (that are a loop that slips over the usual tent pegs) to the chain links?? I still need to purchase the links and have them cut, but wanted to make sure that's what I'd need before I do that.


Carabiners? Maybe do away with the loops and teach yourself a couple of knots...that will also let you adjust tension during the week without having to move the peg.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:28 pm

Carabiners was my thought also, or bungee balls for constant tension. 8)
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