Lag screws vs everything else...

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
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torrey.smith
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by torrey.smith » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:15 pm

I ordered a few American Earth Anchor penetrators in the 18", 26" and 46" sizes for evaluation purposes.

These are intended to anchor the guys for our Zip-Line (among other things):

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Unlike traditional stakes, they advise these to be used in-line with the cable in tension.

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These 46" penetrators are big mothers! I think I'll go with the "PE46Guy" version.

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To be honest, these could use some hand filing, polishing and why not a red anodize?

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Big Red! They're made from aluminum 356, which has enough Silicon to create dark blotching. I think the polishing may have helped a lot, because these came out nicely!

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Now I'm starting to get interested in the hand-cranked 9" little guys. Screw All The Things!

Also, now I have to get a Makita TW1000. 748 ft-lbs never felt so good! (video from AEA)

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:18 pm

Christ.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by torrey.smith » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:57 pm

maladroit wrote:Christ.
SCREW YOU BENNY!!!

[media]
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Meat Hunter » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:27 pm

Since I could not find 3/8" x 18" lag bolts last year, I used 1/2" x 18" lag bolts set with a 1/2" electric drill powered off my small generator.

About 6" down, I hit hard ground that all but brought my heavy duty electric drill and my little generator to their knees. I had to back the lag bolts out several time to get a running start several time to get the lag bolts flush with the ground. And, I used Fig Jams two links of chain under the head of the lag bolt. I doubt that I would have had enough power in a battery powered drill or impact driver to set even one lag bolt.

Compared to the labor required to nail in and remove rebar, the setting and removing my lag bolts was very easy. For an old man, it was easy in and easy out.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mudpuppy000 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:11 am

Meat Hunter wrote:Since I could not find 3/8" x 18" lag bolts last year, I used 1/2" x 18" lag bolts set with a 1/2" electric drill powered off my small generator.

About 6" down, I hit hard ground that all but brought my heavy duty electric drill and my little generator to their knees. I had to back the lag bolts out several time to get a running start several time to get the lag bolts flush with the ground. And, I used Fig Jams two links of chain under the head of the lag bolt. I doubt that I would have had enough power in a battery powered drill or impact driver to set even one lag bolt.

Compared to the labor required to nail in and remove rebar, the setting and removing my lag bolts was very easy. For an old man, it was easy in and easy out.
Yeah, diameter seems to have a big impact, at least in the soils I've used it in. (rocky/gravelly) I've seen 1/4" wide screws barely hold into rocky soil and 3/8" wouldn't budge at all.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by MFOB » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:49 am

Meat Hunter wrote:Since I could not find 3/8" x 18" lag bolts last year, I used 1/2" x 18" lag bolts set with a 1/2" electric drill powered off my small generator.
I doubt that I would have had enough power in a battery powered drill or impact driver to set even one lag bolt.
I had/have 18" x 1/2" Lags and I used an 18V 3/8" Makita Impact Driver to put in about 8 of them...At the last bolt, it was definitely slowing down. But albeit, got em all in and out.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:15 pm

I have a weird vision of an air compressor powered by several bicycle cranks, coupled with an air impact wrench.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:16 pm

Who wouldn't???
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:05 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Who wouldn't???
Rube Goldberg. He would make it faaaaar more complicated. :twisted:
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SnowBlind » Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:17 pm

Meat Hunter wrote:About 6" down, I hit hard ground that all but brought my heavy duty electric drill and my little generator to their knees.
...
I doubt that I would have had enough power in a battery powered drill or impact driver to set even one lag bolt.
I think there might be a big difference in performance between a drill and an impact driver for this type of job. The drill needs to overcome the full torque of turning the bolt. The impact driver will hammer away and turn it a little bit on each impact. If the resistance gets higher, the impact driver will simply turn it less on each impact, but it will hammer away. The drill will simply stop when it can't overcome the resistance.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by torrey.smith » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:55 am

SnowBlind wrote: I think there might be a big difference in performance between a drill and an impact driver for this type of job. The drill needs to overcome the full torque of turning the bolt. The impact driver will hammer away and turn it a little bit on each impact. If the resistance gets higher, the impact driver will simply turn it less on each impact, but it will hammer away. The drill will simply stop when it can't overcome the resistance.

Impact drivers don't twist people's arms off when they lose :mrgreen:
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by krly » Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:15 pm

Just curious if anyone has ACTUALLY screwed in a lag screw with a socket wrench speed handle and ,if so,how easy/difficult was it ?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Ratty » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:03 pm

I would also like an answer to that question. If I bought lag screws they would have to be screwed in with a ratchet. I don't bring power anything.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:31 pm

It would be quite a workout.

You could pound them in till you hit hard playa, then use the ratchet.

Doing more than 6 that way is more work than I would want to do.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Meat Hunter » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:51 pm

If you would like to approximate how hard it will be to set your lag bolts when you hit the hard layer under the softer top layer of playa using a socket with either a speed handle or a ratchet wrench; find yourself some dry/hard ground and see how much effort it takes to set your lag bolts.

Although not the same, it will give you some idea. Like Fig Jam said, it might be more difficult than you imagine.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SnowBlind » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:21 pm

I would think that the whole point of using lag screws is that you can screw them in (and more importantly out) with a power tool. If you are doing it manually, you might not really gain much over using rebar. Heck, it might be easier to pound in rebar than to screw these in by hand.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Ratty » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:22 pm

But, but, they look so cool. Especially with the links of chain on the end. If it's gonna be the same effort I'll stick with rebar. It's no trouble and it screws right out with my pipe wrench.

No swamp cooler, big battery, generator, power tools, electric assist, 1 million wat-volt-transformsister machine to do my cooking and laundry.

Just me and a hammer. Bliss
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by krly » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:49 pm

Ratty......you could open your own "nail" salon.......sorry, couldn't stop myself.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by rideincircles » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:45 pm

One thing I was looking at mentioned above was the Ryobi 4 piece set which is now $50 off at $130 which is a great deal for basic tools. This set does not have the impact driver, and has 2 of the lesser powered batteries.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-Vol ... /203466914

The 6-piece set has better batteries, a 1/4" impact driver which is not strong enough for playa lag screws, and better more powerful tools with lasers and lights, but is $300 (used to be $260).

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-One-18 ... /203466936

Since I want to upgrade tools, I may just get the 6-piece set and then the 3 speed 1/2" impact drill when it comes available. which brings it to $420.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-Vol ... /205885687

The other option would be the 4-piece set, 2 extra hi capacity batteries $100 and the 3 speed impact for $350. That would give 4 batteries, but not the better tools or the multi-tool.

As of now I don't have a generator which would be another option which I would still consider. What would be a decent generator and not too expensive? I would probably assume 2000w for a small a/c for a hexayurt and powering an impact wrench.

I am leaning towards the 6 piece rechargeable tools kit, but am still evaluating the costs.

In the mean time I will probably go with the 3/8" x 14" lag bolts and will order those soon. Did they still do sale codes?

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:04 pm

I don't carry a genny, but I do have a big enough inverter to plug my big drill into.

When I need to use my drill, I connect the inverter to my truck battery and start the truck.

That way it doesn't run down my battery.

My inverter is big enough to run an electric demolition hammer. (3000/6000 watts)

It was $120 on CL, but a 1500/3000 should be plenty big enough for drills.

Easier than maintaining a genny if you don't need power full time. 8)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:04 am

FIGJAM wrote:I don't carry a genny, but I do have a big enough inverter to plug my big drill into.
I believe it was noted in one of these 12 pages that if you are getting an inverter powerful
enough for an impact tool (and don't get the bare minimum, as start-up can pull lots more juice) don't get one that has only a "cigarette lighter" plug.
I see many have alligator style clips to put directly on the battery terminals (they still have those on batteries in new cars???) :D

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mooserider » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:44 am

DoctorIknow wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:I don't carry a genny, but I do have a big enough inverter to plug my big drill into.
I believe it was noted in one of these 12 pages that if you are getting an inverter powerful
enough for an impact tool (and don't get the bare minimum, as start-up can pull lots more juice) don't get one that has only a "cigarette lighter" plug.
I see many have alligator style clips to put directly on the battery terminals (they still have those on batteries in new cars???) :D
Batteries have to have terminals somewhere (though perhaps not conveniently). The terminals on the dinky 12v battery in my hybrid are pretty flimsy (of course, they expect all the heavy juice in that vehicle to come from the high-voltage battery in the back). A cigarette lighter socket is only good for 10 to 20 amps (depending on the quality of the socket and your plug); it may be fused for 25 amps, but that's for brief surges like the old lighter elements that used to be in those sockets 30 years ago. And 20 amps at 12 volts is only good for about 200 watts at AC (after inverter losses). My larger portable inverter has jumper cable clips on its DC power cord, and it's only rated for 750 watts.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mooserider » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:58 am

Getting back to the "everything else" on this thread, what's the opinion on putting anchor plates on the ground and parking your vehicle on them? How do you attach ropes to such plates, and is the anchoring strong enough? What do you use for anchor plates?

I'm interested because the manual for my RV states that there could be as much as 9000 pounds (!) of pressure under each set of dual tires on the back, and 6000 under each front steer tire. Is that enough weight (with ground and tire friction) to hold a guy line on one side of a structure? Obviously, you'd still need conventional anchors on the other side (unless your fellow campers carefully located another RV at the right distance on the other side of the center structure). Even my dinky little hybrid car clocks in at over 800 pounds of vehicle weight per tire.

I remember the steel plates my fire department has on their aerial ladder truck for the stabilizing jack feet, but was wondering if the welded-on carry handles would break off from rope tension (for that service, the handles were only so firefighters could carry the plates between the ground location for the jack foot and the storage rack on the truck). Or is that overkill for BM purposes, given the lighter vehicle weights?

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:18 am

Bend a 4' stick of rebar into a U.

Lay it flat on the playa and park on the legs of the U.

Ancore to the loop left sticking out from under tire. 8)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:39 am

For immediate release

Thomas Edison Inventor Prize awarded to Arizona man.

Menlo Park, NJ, 2015 April 17; The Thomas Edison Institute announced today that....
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by ygmir » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:16 pm

why would you park on an anchor plate, when you can just tie to the vehicle?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:18 pm

So as not to pull the door handles and such off the car?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:42 pm

Lag screws are still better. Standardize on one type of tie-down instead of stringing ropes around your car where you'll trip over them if you need to put something in your car.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by ygmir » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:53 pm

Elliot wrote:So as not to pull the door handles and such off the car?
oh yeah, I forgot there is nothing underneath to tie to.

*stands corrected*
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:06 pm

Some -- mostly larger -- vehicles have plenty to tie to -- even if it takes crawling underneath to tie to the frame or such. But modern passenger cars? Not so much, I'm afraid.
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