Lag screws vs everything else...

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ranger magnum
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by ranger magnum » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:09 pm

Most modern passenger cars have at least one tow/recovery hook on the front and rear, just under the bumpers.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:54 pm

EZ-Up gently tumbling by in the breeze, the plastic bumper of a Mazda skittering behind on a rope

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SnowBlind
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SnowBlind » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:58 pm

maladroit wrote:EZ-Up gently tumbling by in the breeze, the plastic bumper of a Mazda skittering behind on a rope
It's performance art, man!

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mooserider » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:17 pm

Although the rebar U-bend sounds clever, would the rebar have enough drag surface to keep it from gouging a trench in the playa and sliding out from under the tire (considering a guy line in such an installation would be pulling almost along the rebar's length under the tire)? That's why I was considering a metal plate big enough to have the entire "footprint" of the dual tire pair on it, and at least that much corresponding surface against the ground: to increase friction. Considering that other threads have discussed guy line tensions exceeding half a ton, I was trying to find a way to avoid needing those super-augers an earlier poster mentioned (or at least not needing as many of them). On the other hand, making such metal plates might exceed the cost of the super-auger anchors.

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Ratty
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Ratty » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:03 pm

Apavlin, In the past I have sometimes brought my heavy duty carport. One year, (I think 2008) it was so windy I thought the entire city would blow away. I had secured my carport to my vehicle by wrapping the ropes around the front and rear tires at ground level. It worked like magic. Use the right ropes or straps for the job. The only down side is trying not to trip on the ropes. I use swim noodles sliced lengthwise . Slip em over all my ropes.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by ygmir » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:11 pm

if you don't mind dull colors, foam pipe insulation is already split lenghtwise.
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Lonesomebri
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:32 pm

Ordered an impact driver today..... peer pressure...
I suppose the crotch level rebar I usually pound in to secure the tent will all be only for display this year.
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Just_Joe
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Just_Joe » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:02 pm

Lonesomebri wrote: I suppose the crotch level rebar I usually pound in to secure the tent will all be only for display this year.
It would be a welcome addition to the "First Burners" diorama we are working on.
FirstBurners.jpg
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by rideincircles » Sat May 02, 2015 12:41 pm

Just got my Ryobi set and the 300 ft lb 1/2" impact driver to go with it. I need to go get some impacts sockets to try how easy it is to rotate my tires.

The 6-piece set is on sale at Home Depot for $259 at the moment. I had some gift certificates under my work rewards progrm so I didn't have to spend much on it.

I ordered a $75 refurb 200 ft lb 1/2" ryobi impact wrench, but recieved the 300 ft lb wrench brand new. I will not be complaining, thats $45 off. Now it's back to $110. I don't plan on questioning what I received.



Time to get the lag screws.

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Elliot
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Sat May 02, 2015 6:11 pm

I see your 200 to 300 free upgrade and raise you.... When I ordered my DeWalt DW292, it arrived -- and a week or so later a second one arrived.

Yes, I feel guilty about keeping both. But not more than I can stand.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by pacerpilot » Wed May 06, 2015 2:21 pm

I came across a new passenger car buried up to the frame in the desert not too long ago. Even crawling under and looking, there was no where to hook a tow strap. After a couple hours digging and pushing we got it unstuck. I advised the owner to weld on some tie downs - he said "its a rental". No good deed goes unpunished.

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rideincircles
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by rideincircles » Fri May 22, 2015 8:00 am

One box of 3/8" x 14" Lag screws ordered. PM me for details if you're interested.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by moondoggie » Fri May 29, 2015 8:22 pm

Thank you all for the wealth of information in this thread so far! This thread inspired me to ditch my rebar and order some of the lags recommended in this thread from fastenersuperstore. These are what arrived in the mail yesterday.
lags.jpg
The 3/8" x 14" threads span a total length of 8 + 1/4".
The 1/2" x 18" threads span a total length of 6 + 5/8".

I called fastenersuperstore to inquire about availability of 1/2" x 18" lags with more thread coverage. Apparently ALL of the 1/2" x 18" zinc lags they are currently selling have this thread length.

My cordless 18V impact & drills handle the 14" screws with little trouble. The 18" screws are slightly annoying to remove from the ground because of the short thread length.

Questions for the experts in this thread: will the limited thread coverage of the 18" lags compromise their performance? would the 14" screws for my intended applications?

Intended applications:
1/2" x 18" : hexayurt, 20' x 24' EMT canopy, 16' bamboo pole, monkey huts
3/8" x 14" : tarps, trash cans, folding tables, bike racks, hippies
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Fri May 29, 2015 8:39 pm

Once the threads bite into the underplaya I would be surprised if anything could come loose.
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maladroit
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Fri May 29, 2015 8:41 pm

These are the normal thread lengths. The first 6 to 8 inches of playa is so crumbly, there's no point to threading it. Instead, you get a good grip on a block of firm playa deeper down, the crumbly playa still helps a bit because it's heavy.

If the unthreaded shank is causing too much friction in your backyard dirt, be assured that this will be much less of a problem on the actual playa. You're good.

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Elliot
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Sun May 31, 2015 2:13 pm

What they said.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by jimthompsonmd » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:32 am

FIGJAM wrote:The place I originally got my lag screws are now charging 10X what I paid for them.
Mr Jam, comments on what I propose to use?

These are Spax Power Lags, and only 12" long. (Power drill for reference)
The thread is only on the distal 4".

However, it's a pretty aggressive thread, and I am enamored with your advice to take a bolt I can just spin in and out.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:08 am

Looks ok to me.

Test it on a 2x4 with a predrilled 1/8" hole.

That will re-create about what the hard underplaya is like.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by jimthompsonmd » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:19 am

FIGJAM wrote:Looks ok to me.

Test it on a 2x4 with a predrilled 1/8" hole.

That will re-create about what the hard underplaya is like.
Thanks!

If that's the case, the pull strength will be fine...I will be using an anchor every 4ft.
But is the purpose of this test the inline strength, or to figure out how much torque you need for insertion/extraction?

(Or both...)

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:26 am

Mainly to make sure your drill will do the job.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:44 pm

Bump
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Meat Hunter » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:59 pm

Regarding a proper drill that will do the job, FIGJAM is very correct.

Last year, I used a 1/2" electric drill, connected to my Honda 2000i generator to set 18" 1/2" lag bolts.

As soon as I hit moist earth (about 8"-10" down) both my drill and my generator were laboring. The only way that I could set the head of my lag bolts flush with the ground was to back out and take repeated "running starts".

That was when I was wishing for a heavy duty 1/2" electric impact driver. Your mileage may vary, but my mileage was a challenge.
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maladroit
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:07 pm

Figuring this all out is well worth avoiding rebar gashes or smacking a sledgehammer into your shin bone on the first day.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Shoeshine » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:21 pm

I've said it a bit earlier... but you really want an impact driver rather than a drill for this application.

my little ryobi 18v did just fine for 14" lags last year.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by jimthompsonmd » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:43 am

Shoeshine wrote:I've said it a bit earlier... but you really want an impact driver rather than a drill for this application.

my little ryobi 18v did just fine for 14" lags last year.
I'm going to try to get by with my smallish 18V Bosch cordless hammer drills. I can't bring myself to buy an impact drill for this single application. The punishment for a potentially inadequate tool will be to have my peeps drive the lags in by hand; I'll have an assortment of options for that. The little Bosch's I have are the HDS 181 series. These have decent torque (600 in-lbs) for compact cordless drills, and the hammer function adds a little oomph. I will probably also bring a long bit so that I'll have the option of pre-drilling should it come to that.

Weaselly anxiety-ridden coward that I am, some rebar backup stashed away. :shock:

I'm sort of thinking that, while driving the lag down to the head is ideal, if it hits really hard material short of that, then you are starting to get pretty good purchase. So the game is to get the lag far enough in to make sure it's not the weak link; not necessarily down to the surface. (although that's an anti-tripping benefit)

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Shoeshine » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:08 am

you've got the essence, if you stall out with the drill there is always a ratchet wrench (and if needed a pipe on the handle) for the last few turns.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by rideincircles » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:45 am

Got my 3/8" x 14" lag screws in the mail yesterday. This was the 2nd time I've ordered them after my first package was stolen from my porch and was not covered by any insurance. The people at FS were not fond of me calling and asking if it was going to be replaced which I was hoping UPS would do, but UPS closed the investigation when they determined it was dropped off at my place. My shady cousin probably stole them and sold it for scrap most likely, I am glad he has left the area around where I live.

I plan on trying out my smaller sized ryobi cordless impact wrench with the 1/8" hole to see how well it will work this weekend if possible. I will probably bring the 1/2" ryobi cordless impact with me, but will only break it out if the smaller can't do the job. The smaller one was from the 6 piece Ryobi set. Will report back later on how well it works. The 1/2" one can remove lug nuts with no problem.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by skippy3k » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:26 am

jimthompsonmd wrote:I'm going to try to get by with my smallish 18V Bosch cordless hammer drills. I can't bring myself to buy an impact drill for this single application.
This is when Harbor Freight is helpful. My inexpensive 1/2 impact has been going strong now for 2 years on the playa. (I do bring backup socket wrench and breaker bar, but have never needed it.)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by torrey.smith » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:05 am

This is a cross-post from the "Works In Progress" thread. I thought it might be nice to put this content in this thread, but I understand if this is inappropriate and Mods please delete if this is the case.

Sextant made a trip out to Juplaya to do ground anchor testing.

With our Zip-Line loads ever increasing, we're looking for the best solutions for ground anchoring. These "Penetrator" style anchors seem to represent the next generation over the older "Helix" style.

We welded up a test rig Wednesday night, borrowed a 10,000 lb load cell from DUSTFISH, attached one of our 9,500 lb winches from the Tesla Coil and headed out!

It was humbling and informative. We are now putting together the ability to drill a 46" deep pilot hole, and we're setting up a compressed air impact wrench system for more oomph.

[media]


The PE26 did quite well. The Playa gets really dense about 6-12" down, which helps explain why it tested between Soil Class 1 and Soil Class 2. I think the lower layer corresponds to Soil Class 1. That clay is dense.

[media]


The PE26 installed very nicely with the electric Makita TW1000.

[media]


The PE46-Guy was much more difficult to install. We knew it would be slow based on this video from AEA, but the Playa proved to be a bit denser. Once we fully stalled out we stopped trying, because Aluminum has no fatigue limit and these things will break after enough cycles. I'm trying to avoid having to heavy equipment, because it complicates our logistics, and it also has the potential to auger out the soil instead of screwing in.

[media]


After snapping our 10,000 lb rope twice, we doubled the rope to reduce stress concentrations and pulled out the PE46-Guy which was only installed about 2/3 of the way (this meant we didn't have room for the load cell). I estimate that we were in the vicinity of 7,500 lbs load at fail due to the winch being nearly maxed out. Not bad for a partially installed anchor!
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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:16 am

I just wish you had tested some lag bolts!!! :lol:
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