Lag screws vs everything else...

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
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Various
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Various » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:55 pm

Do Costco carport feet have a hole I can screw lag bolts through already or do I have to drill one?

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BBadger
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:54 am

They have holes. Three of them. I did put a 3/8" washer between the hole and the lag bolt just to give it some padding (and also for the chain links I was using for stringing stuff up).
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by The CO » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:43 am

So, a while back, tweakers broke into my trailer. I didn't think they had taken anything until yesterday, when I realized my box of military v stakes is gone.

I'm now in the position of of having to purchase a new anchor set for the camp, and Lags are as good as any, if not better. There is also the advantage that I can get them today at a supplier about 2 miles from my shop.

My question for y'all: Is the general concensus that 3/8" x 14" will function? (that's whats available)

Load per anchor is 300-600 lbs.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:51 am

They will perform so well that you'll never go back!!! 8)

Hope they don't gouge you on price!!!!!!!
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by The CO » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:08 am

3 days before I leave, 80% of my camp can't go up without anchors.

I'll pay $5 each if needed. Otherwise camp don't happen.

This is why we collect a small amount of $$ dues and have a savings account for the camp.

Thanks as always for the research and feedback Figjam! Please come by M*A*S*H 4207th/Rosie's Bar for a thank you beverage or 2.
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The CO
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by The CO » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:57 am

$1.50 each, no shipping.
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SourPatch
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SourPatch » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:28 am

Not too bad. Glad you were able to find a solution with such a few days to departure.
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Good News Bear
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Good News Bear » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:35 pm

The CO wrote:$1.50 each, no shipping.
Hi Where'd you find these? PM if need be (if posting the source breaks the rules or something). Just went to pick up the lag screws I ordered from the local hardware store and found out they ordered in BOLTS (machine thread style). I'd basically have to pound those in as though they're rebar.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by caffeineslinger » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:13 pm

I already packed my shade and components the other day but woke up early this wondering trying to remember if I had the right socket for my driver. I'm glad I checked because it wasn't in there. No idea what happened to it.

Moral of the story... Make sure you have everything you need to get these in and out and the right size. Breaker bar too as a back up.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Pootzen » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:20 pm

Based on my experience last year, lag screws are not worth it. Too much trouble vs. rebar.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:44 pm

Pootzen wrote:Based on my experience last year, lag screws are not worth it. Too much trouble vs. rebar.
I'd say it's not worth it if you have fewer than 10-15 stakes to drive by yourself.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SourPatch » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:05 am

I would break a sweat pounding rebar into the playa... Not so much with lag screws. That, to me, is an example how worth it lag screws are. 13 lag screws held up my 10 x 20 structure flawlessly last year.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:37 pm

I cringe at the thought of how many rebars I've wrangled over the years....so, this year I was the noob with the Harbor Freight 1/2" driver and boxes of 18" and 24" lags (and 9/16 and 3/4" swiveling deep impact sockets) and of course, I'm a convert. (and BTW, the "third links" that I had to cut thru to release the two links) came in mighty handy for attaching to the tent straps meant for a normal tent stake to pass thru..if I'd used lag screws, the threads could have damaged the loop or I'd need a huge fender washer to compensate for the loop size verses the head size of the lag...)

Question: some were bent a little when I took them out. would straightening them weaken them? Aside from making the impact driver a little more difficult to use with them bent, won't they drive in fine bent a little?

Thanks

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mudpuppy000 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:44 am

So anyway, if you run out of washers or chain links, this worked. :D It would be funny to set up a camera and see how many people tried to de-moop it. :D

Image

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:40 am

"And the Playa engineering award goes to......" 8)
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--Ever--
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by --Ever-- » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:28 pm

Same campmates regarding our anchoring techniques:

2014: dude you're kind of overdoing it
2015: dude help us
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Joeln
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Joeln » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:16 pm

We just pounded the lags in with a 3 lb maul and then pulled them out with a large vise grip. We don't need no steenkin impact driver.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:38 pm

Joeln wrote:We just pounded the lags in with a 3 lb maul and then pulled them out with a large vise grip. We don't need no steenkin impact driver.
Sounds like expensive rebar minus candy cane end :D :D :D :D

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by RedManRising » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:10 pm

I used the 14" lag screws with two links of chain as anchors with ratchet straps to secure a 20x30 shade structure at the 2015 Burn this year. Structure was constructed of 1" EMT conduit in a 10' grid. Top was a single 20'x30' 14 mil silver tarp with grommets every 18". Side panels were 70% UV filter mesh 10'x10' tarps with grommets every 12". Top tarp attached with bungee balls, side tarps with zip ties. It was set up in the Friday before the Burn and survived the 70+ mph dust storm Saturday morning without flinching. Inside the structure, an empty aluminum can did not move an inch.

I spaced an anchor 10' out from each external pole to achieve a 45 degree angle on the tie down straps. Two anchors in each direction on the corners. Also anchored each pole base to prevent lateral shift.

Given the winds we had both before and during the Burn, I would call this structure playa tested. At break down, it took less than ten seconds per anchor to remove the lag screws with an impact driver. LOVE IT!!!!

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:54 pm

I set up a new BlackRockHardware 12x20 (8' high) with their tarp roof and did 70% shade on three sides and 10x10 shade angled out in the "front" so there was space for chairs and a table under the shade. I used ball bungies for all shade and tarp.

I used "mule tape" (which I'd never heard of before this thread) with trucker's hitches for cross bracing on three sides). I also used mule tape to anchor the six EMT poles from the roof joints. (I didn't bother to use the BlackRockHardware rebar securing system for the six "feet", as the 18" lag screws would hold it down better.

The tent was a great 10x20 Trek Tent ( http://www.trektents.com/shop/249 )which has NO mesh that isn't able to be closed....a very rare thing. Although noisy in the big winds, it had almost no seep thru of playa during the worst of the winds.

It was clear the crossbracing on the shade structure was necessary. I saw 3 Costco Carports that had no cross bracing or heavy "down" bracing lean over and blow over...fortunately no one was injured.

My neighbors had a small battery powered drill/driver that took a very long time to put in 14" lag screws, draining it's battery very quickly. I saw someone else using a large 4 headed tire iron on lags, and it looked like the perfect tool for a small number of lag screws. Amongst 4 setups I assisted with, I used about 50 total lag screws, and was grateful to have the 1/2" drive Harbor Freight monster impact driver.

Thank you FigJam and all contributors for this thread. I endured the rebar dance gladly for years, but no more.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Sic Pup » Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:56 pm

Not to be a contrarian, after all BM is all about excess, but I've never had an issue with anchoring my MH and the tent underneath it with these pieces of crap for five years running (technically 5 of the last 6).

Granted they are no longer smooth (rust and corrosion) due to lack of cleaning but I camp near the gatemost perimeter (K) and am usually subject to more wind than in BRC proper. They go in with a standard hammer and come out with a vise grip. I watched them carefully this year (I do have spare rebar to lend out) and they didn't budge a millimeter. In fairness one end cap is anchored with a candy cane rebar and the shade flap is sandwiched between the playa and my vehicle on the other side.

Just sayin'

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by skippy3k » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:25 am

My use of lag bolts this year has been extended from just anchoring the shade structure. I used lag bolts to hold down our shower setup and our yurt guy lines. For me, it's become more about ease of use than a necessity to stand up to the winds. I can understand the hesitation if you don't already use a generator in camp, as it becomes just another thing to bring. But if you're bringing a generator anyway, it just makes sense to bring an impact wrench and use lag bolts. It's so fast, so easy and sorta fun. This year my wife did most of the lag bolting while I focused on other tasks. 5 seconds in, 5 seconds out.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by --Ever-- » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:34 am

Video from the storm around 5am Saturday morning: https://youtu.be/RBJ5J3vHG0A

Note the difference between our campmate's popups and our Costco carport. Also note this was during the normal "breeze" of the storm and doesn't show any of the larger gusts.

Sorry for potato.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Ratty » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:53 am

Rebar was no problem. Hammer in. Remove with a pipe wrench. RedManRising 75 MPH winds?! At 75 MPH you can not stand up. I didn't feel those winds on 5:30 and H. I was there for 2 weeks. I've experienced them in the past and had to take shelter or be blown away. My campmate would love for me to buy an impact driver and lag screws for us. I'm scaling down next year so I don't think it will happen.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Bemerritt » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:35 am

using the 14x3/8 lags was a dream. For future users, I put in over 30 lags with my cordless Dewalt impact driver. Didn't completely drain the two batteries when putting them in. Only took one battery to take all of them out.

My neighbors pointed at me and said, "wow! they are using power tools!." haha, thanks again figjam for hiding my burgin status on the playa.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by jimthompsonmd » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:49 pm

Vote here for 12" Spax lag bolts.
Big aggressive thread last 5" or so.

I personally don't think a typical failure point (yurt; tent; shade structure) is going to be pulling that out of the ground. Nor is it going to be a reasonably strong cord (say, 500# milspec paracord using an ordinary trucker's hitch).

I would bet the attachment to the yurt/tent/shade structure would fail long before the bolt pulls out, or paracord fails.

That playa grabs beautifully, and it's drop dead easy to drill in/out lag bolts.

I absolutely don't get all this concern about what will hold.
We used the Spax for the yurt, but had a big Coleman family tent with nothing but 10" spikes and the string that comes with the tent, and in this year's breezes, it didn't come close to failing.

When our neighbor's stuff blew over (tents, canopy structures...) it was NOT from anchors pulling out of the playa. It was from posts buckling, etc.

My 2c, but pay attention to what is likely to fail--for example, taped yurt seams, under which dust and dryness have vibrated away the tape seal.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:18 pm

jimthompsonmd wrote:I absolutely don't get all this concern about what will hold.
We used the Spax for the yurt, but had a big Coleman family tent with nothing but 10" spikes and the string that comes with the tent, and in this year's breezes, it didn't come close to failing.
It's not about what you, personally, experienced. Not everyone in the city will experience the same pattern and forces of wind gusts. The city itself blocks and disrupts a lot of it, if you're downwind of any major structures like other camps, cars, etc.

However, one odd quirk of the wind, or waking up on Monday to find everyone around you has packed up and left...and 10" spikes can pull out, tent string can snap. Though I'll agree that most cheap tents will collapse first. When you have your carports, large tarp shade structures, big wind loads like hexayurts and geo domes...anchoring is super important.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mudpuppy000 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:21 pm

We set up a few anchor points in the center of our shade structure, and attached ratchet straps vertically to them so all the ratchet force wanted to pull the lags out of the playa. They didn't even budge, but the washers on the lags started bending pretty bad. Chain links would have probably been better for that setup.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by burn_shady » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:28 am

Lag screws and the impact driver were golden. When you add in the two-chain-link-attachment trick, I started putting them in my pocket like they were the new prison yard currency. Still though, I was almost giggly knowing that I was using this pansy-ass way to secure everything better than ever instead of pounding and pulling on rebar for extended amounts of time.

When I got word that the sky was going to fall on Wednesday, I rotated my tarp so that it would go all the way to the ground and I drove a lag screw through every grommet that was even close to the ground. I took two lengths of lag screw with me to BM: 12" and 18". Where I was located, the crumbly, no-good playa cruft went down about 6 inches until you hit something actually hard. The 12" were the perfect size for where I was and for personal-sized structures (ok, it's still big: 23'x25' tarp on a hut that used every bit of the 25' length to go from the ground on one side to the other. I used 1.25" at the arch bases, 1" as the more curved part and another 5' length of 1.25" pipe as the apex peice. We got a new, giant tent and this barely contains it.).

I'll never forget this: on the windiest day, we decided to close off the only remaining open end of the MH. I stood upwind of the hut, quickly put the lag screws through all the grommets that were going to be on this side of it all (ha.... have you ever said "quickly drove rebar into all the..." and meant it?). I then held the unattached edge of the tarp for a couple seconds, waited for the right gust and let'r fly up and over the hut. It flopped over and around the hut with such force, the "whomp" was like a mini-version of when the temple arch as it fell and cupped the ground. Very satisfying indeed.

The weak link now is how crappy the grommets are as they pull out of the tarp. I think half my grommets are toast and the other half were on the easy sides of the tarp.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mudpuppy000 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:12 am

For the grommets, securing with bungee balls will help it flex in the wind and be less likely to rip out the grommets.

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