Lag screws vs everything else...

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby DoctorIknow » Fri May 13, 2016 8:50 pm

eldergeekaz wrote:But I'm a tool whore so take it for whats worth..... :D


This is the best site for salivating over tool porn.
All kinds of tools Made in American.
And, a very funny video that shows off their gotta love it old time storage racks filled with tools I only wish I could afford just 'cause they are such well made products.

http://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/


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EGAZ
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby EGAZ » Sat May 14, 2016 9:06 am

Love it! :lol:

There is a place in town. Mcfadden-Dale Hardware. Its like a mini Graingers. Only for tools and hardware. I have never not found a nut/bolt/screw/bushing/nylon or aluminum spacer, etc. etc. I needed. Usually odd ball stuff. Standard or metric, steel, nylon, brass, aluminum or stainless, they have it. And they have excellent pricing for drills, taps, reams and other machining tools. I can walk around in there like a kid in toys for us.

Tools are like 4 wheel drive. You might only use it once a year, but when you need it, its worth way more than the cost. If you've wrenched on anything at all you know having the correct tool can make a job only 30mins instead of 2hrs. And not damage what you're fixin. Ha!

That said, I am in the process of thinning my heard. After almost 40 years of hoarding, uh..... gathering tools, its time......

Sorry for the thread drift......
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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chiefdanfox
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby chiefdanfox » Thu May 26, 2016 4:55 pm

EBB&Glow camp has a 18' high twin tower set up (two 4x8 home depot type industrial storage racks, heavy iron) and a main 20' x 30' HD tarp that drapes over the whole thing. It sounds like few well-placed, three to an anchor point, three points along each 20' (each corner and 1 in the middle) and 2 anchor points in the middle along the 30' side, 3/8" x 18" lags would hold this? (10 points with 3 anchors each. A little like the zip line tower anchoring found on page 16-17 of this thread.)

This is using 1" emt frame stock to match our Black Rock Hardware and appropriate canopy connectors, with the tarp no lower than 8' in the back (windward to prevailing wind) and 10' in the front (leeward to PW). The structure is sort of a gable, with the ridge perpendicular to the wind. My gut tells me a big wind would pull those lags out, since we have a 20 x 30 sail with lots of lifting power.

Where I want to be is a shredded tarp firmly anchored to the playa and not a flying tarp with 18" impalers flailing about, if it gets bad. I am/was advocating either 15" or 30" ground anchors. I've used 10k lb ratchet straps and org-supplied anchors and drill rig on my projects. Those things I don't worry about, we have always designed for 125 mph winds. I have a hole hawg for driving either lags or anchors, I thought a curb key cut and chucked into the hawg would do a good job of driving the anchor.

Thoughts?

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby EGAZ » Thu May 26, 2016 5:54 pm

You thinking similar to this type of '3 to 1 anchor points', less the buss.... and lags instead of rebar, no lower cross bars as drawn.
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2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Thu May 26, 2016 6:42 pm

Can't find anywhere selling the 3/8"x18" any more.

The 1/2' lags go to 24"s.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby chiefdanfox » Fri May 27, 2016 9:44 am

Good to know on the lags, Fig.
Elgaz: No, the triple anchoring is reversed. The single guy wire comes down from the grommet to a triple anchoring, like a chicken leg and foot, using a figure eight or some other impressive display of nautical knotting skill.

Earlier in this thread, the Zip line folks mentioned that they had their lags pull out a bit. My obvious worry is that when one goes, the whole thing unzips like a catsuit in the Orgy Dome (not that I would know...). As a group, at least as a builder group, we tend to be redundant on wind protection, but in the best case of disaster, I don't want to rebuild anything after it goes ass-over-tea-kettle. I would rather take the time up front to get it right. Thanks! ;-)

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby mattcamp » Fri May 27, 2016 10:17 am

You'll pull the grommets out of any normal tarp long before you pull even a 14" lag screw out of the ground, and probably snap a lot of ropes before you pull three of them.

If in doubt use a bigger lag screw. The 18" ones feel like they're a LOT more solid than the 14" ones (mainly judged by effort required to put them in)

If you're really concerned about this then look into using proper shade fabric instead of a tarp... it costs a bit more but it really does reduce your wind load.

We used a 72x36' piece of Aluminet last year and while we tore a couple of grommets/clips out of the corners in the biggest storms it was otherwise fine with about 10x 14" lag screws holding it down.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby EGAZ » Fri May 27, 2016 1:03 pm

CDF, I thought that's what you were talking about. I remember that post but couldn't find it.

Chicken leg/foot. Good description...
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby chiefdanfox » Sun May 29, 2016 10:10 am

Agreed on the mesh vs. tarp, but not my call initially, so we are stuck with a heavy duty, grommet-reinforced, 20 x 30 sail. As a side note, on Anubis, we found that if you twist the 10k lb. ratchet straps into something more resembling a rope than a strap, looking at it from 15' away, it will move less in the wind and it won't make the noise.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Ann_Vader » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:01 am

I have a 8' tall 13' diameter sibley bell tent. It stakes down with 13 stakes to attach the guy lines, and 13 inner stakes to maintain the floor shape/tension.

I've already got a set of 13 rebar stakes capped with washers made by a local metal worker for the outer guy lines. I had a plan for the floor to use lag bolts, but I'm unsure as to how long they need to be to anchor in playa.

Can one of the mechanically inclined regulars provide some advice?

Having seen another sibley do well in 50+ mph wind gusts (yay Frostburn 2015!), I understand that the outer guy lines take the brunt of wind force. The inside stakes take less, but the floor must be anchored...

Thanks!

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Leap » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:49 am

It's good to hear aluminet/shade cloth does a lot better in the wind. I am going to do something like this but with 10 x 14 aluminet:

Image

Do you think 6 14" lags would work? I'm thinking 3 on the slope side and 3 on the far side, which will be open.

I'm thinking the Ryobi 18 v 1/4" impact driver will suffice for this little set up. 1800 ft pounds of torque and 400 impacts a minute. Any objections?

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:15 am

Ann, If you just need to keep the floor stretched tight, 12" should be plenty.

Leap, my concern isn't the lags coming out as it's the grommets tearing out.

Use the same number of lags, but add more grommets and lace a rope through the grommets to distribute the load on the edge of the shade cloth.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Leap » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:19 am

Thanks FIGJAM. Makes perfect sense. I'll run in through and tie it off at each grommet. I assume I'll have to do it a few times during the week to tighten it up. I need to upgrade my knot game!

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Ann_Vader
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Ann_Vader » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:26 am

FIGJAM wrote:Ann, If you just need to keep the floor stretched tight, 12" should be plenty.


Thanks, Figjam!

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby PL_FL » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:17 pm

I read through the 21 pages and may have missed it but was there a consensus on, when using these lags for guy wires, is it best to us 90 degree, straight, or inline?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Meat Hunter » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:17 pm

If I remember correctly, I believe the point of universal agreement was that lag bolts should be screwed in 90 deg. to the surface.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby wgpatrick » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:19 am

Helllooooooo! Eplaya! [First, ever Eplaya post!]

A question for the veteran lag bolt-ers out there.

I'm looking to drill in some 3/4" x 24" lag bolts into the playa. Could it be done by one of the cheap-o Harbor Freight Impact drivers? http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tool ... 68099.html

OR should I get something beefier? [If so, any suggested drivers?]

[In case you're wondering, I'm looking to use slightly beefier lag bolts for guying wires down on 20' Rohn tower that makes up the central spire of a shade structure. I'm planning to use 5 guys (3/8" galvanized steel cable) from the top of the tower with 2 bolts per guy with steel chain connecting the two bolts to the guy line.]

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby DoctorIknow » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:49 am

wgpatrick wrote:Helllooooooo! Eplaya! [First, ever Eplaya post!]

A question for the veteran lag bolt-ers out there.

I'm looking to drill in some 3/4" x 24" lag bolts into the playa. Could it be done by one of the cheap-o Harbor Freight Impact drivers? http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tool ... 68099.html

OR should I get something beefier? [If so, any suggested drivers?]

[In case you're wondering, I'm looking to use slightly beefier lag bolts for guying wires down on 20' Rohn tower that makes up the central spire of a shade structure. I'm planning to use 5 guys (3/8" galvanized steel cable) from the top of the tower with 2 bolts per guy with steel chain connecting the two bolts to the guy line.]


I can't answer the question if 24" are capable of what your are using them for, but as far as that HF Impact Wrench, I have the same one and it has more than enough power for 18" lag screws, which in my location in 2015, the last 3-6" of driving were when the lag screw was making slow progress going deeper, but the impact wrench took it all in stride.

Why not get two of the HF wrenches, keep the spare one in the box unopened, keep the receipt, and return the boxed tool within the 90 day return policy?

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby knobdyspcl » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:19 pm

DoctorIknow wrote:
wgpatrick wrote:Helllooooooo! Eplaya! [First, ever Eplaya post!]

A question for the veteran lag bolt-ers out there.

I'm looking to drill in some 3/4" x 24" lag bolts into the playa. Could it be done by one of the cheap-o Harbor Freight Impact drivers? http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tool ... 68099.html

[In case you're wondering, I'm looking to use slightly beefier lag bolts for guying wires down on 20' Rohn tower ]


I can't answer the question if 24" are capable of what your are using them for, but as far as that HF Impact Wrench, I have the same one and it has more than enough power for 18" lag screws, which in my location in 2015, the last 3-6" of driving were when the lag screw was making slow progress going deeper, but the impact wrench took it all in stride.

Why not get two of the HF wrenches, keep the spare one in the box unopened, keep the receipt, and return the boxed tool within the 90 day return policy?


Harbor Freight has them on sale Only $39.99 with coupon 38708631 Add item to cart to redeem coupon http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-Heav ... MiJ9%0D%0A Hurry The extra $10.00 ends in Sept.

Guess I'll pick up a couple. To bad they don't have the lags
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby PL_FL » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:30 am

knobdyspcl wrote:
DoctorIknow wrote:
Why not get two of the HF wrenches, keep the spare one in the box unopened, keep the receipt, and return the boxed tool within the 90 day return policy?




Anyone use this?

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-volt-14 ... 62421.html

and if not, does HF have a cordless that you would recommend? ($50 or $60).
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Papa Bear » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:06 am

Others have posted in the past that the cordless HF wasn't up to the job.

If you're going cordless, be prepared to pay a lot more for a quality one elsewhere, and bring a spare battery.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Ratty » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:14 am

plfs I love my local HF manager/owner. If you return something he says, "Oh, you just wanted to rent it". He charges something like a 15 or 20% restocking fee

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:21 pm

bump
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby maladroit » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:58 pm

Quarter-inch driver isn't going to be up to that task. 1/2 inch is where you need to be.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby eg503 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:58 am

Should my PORTER-CABLE PCCK600LB 20-volt 1/2-Inch Lithium Ion Drill/Driver do the job dropping 12" lags, or do i need a true impact driver ? I have 2 batteries / generator to recharge if need be. Total newb at lags.

Image

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby maladroit » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:21 pm

I believe that it will have a hard time. My large impact driver has to beat the lags into the playa for the last few inches. Most drills will spin the lags down that far, but the last few inches is where the real grip happens. Make sure to bring a socket wrench....

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Leap » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:24 pm

I'm hoping my 1/4" gets me 75% to 80% of the way there. I'll use my socket wrench for the rest.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:33 pm

Porter cable makes a pretty good product.

I think it will do.

Hold on tight!!! 8)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby DoctorIknow » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:13 am

Leap wrote:I'm hoping my 1/4" gets me 75% to 80% of the way there. I'll use my socket wrench for the rest.


12" lag screws will be easy.

But if one is using 18" or even 14", as said, the last few inches are pretty intense.

I just got this 25" breaker bar, which may be overkill, but it was only $12 at Harbor Freight and will be a good backup if my impact wrench fails. Thank goodness the end can rotate as no way would a solid 90degree end work with the angle used for the lag screws in the playa.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Postby Leap » Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:42 am

Damn you'll have plenty of torque with that thing!


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