Lag screws vs everything else...

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Pootzen
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Pootzen » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:46 am

A-RockLeFrench wrote:Man, I think we should all keep posting stock photos of our drills.

I really don't see why any 18v impact driver wouldn't do just fine as long as you could keep the batteries charged.

The only drawback might be that I'm not bringing more than one driver to recruit someone else to help with the setup and takedown. :) Thanks!

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:10 am

Depending on the length of your bolts, each will take about 10 seconds. 8)
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by caffeineslinger » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:07 pm

I'm planning on picking up an impact driver at Harbor Freight. I know there stuff is not always the best but since I'm only using for playa setup I don't need high end. I've also got an online coupon for 20% off any one item there.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FossaFerox » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:05 pm

Bring a back up socket wrench just in case the harbor freight one gives up the ghost on you partway through. It would be awful if it died mid-burn.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:08 pm

FossaFerox wrote:Bring a back up socket wrench just in case the harbor freight one gives up the ghost on you partway through. It would be awful if it died mid-burn.
It will probably die at the very beginning or the very end :)

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:11 pm

I'm more concerned that it will be under powered.

I've bought impact tools that were rated X only to find them to weak to do the job.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:17 pm

I saw a neat little 12V impact wrench for emergency removal of lug nuts. It seemed like a good idea until I noticed the specification for 40 impacts per minute.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:32 pm

I always consider Harbor Freight tools as good enough to work for one job and then they break. That's not necessarily a bad thing depending on what you need. So if you plan on going to the burn more than once, weigh your options. Maybe even see if others are willing to chip in for a better tool for some use on it.

Also consider some of those factory reconditioned drills/drivers. They don't cost as much as new, but you get a good working tool from reputable brands; sometimes the prices are comparable to what you'd pay for a more capable no-name model. At least on CPO Milwaukee, some of the combo kits also come with two batteries for each of the tools which makes for better value than if you just got one tool and an extra (or single) battery.

Still, looking at some of the prices at Harbor Freight, $20 for an impact driver? You could buy a few just for the batteries themselves. I wonder if they'd be able to push the lag bolt completely into the ground though.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by caffeineslinger » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:52 pm

Great points all!

I already have the socket wrench as a backup.
Great idea for a refurbished one. I get refurbished often. Don't know why I didn't think of it this time. Thanks for the link.

BTW The Harbor Freight driver was 20% off not $20.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:06 pm

No, I was looking at this one. That $20 makes me really wary though, like it's "baby's first impact driver" or something.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:07 pm

BBadger wrote:No, I was looking at this one. That $20 makes me really wary though, like it's "baby's first impact driver" or something.
Oh, it has no battery or charger. Gotta factor that into the price.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Jackass » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:10 pm

Build your guns up a little, use yesteryear's impact driver.
speed.jpg
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Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Jackass » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:31 pm

BBadger wrote:No, I was looking at this one. That $20 makes me really wary though, like it's "baby's first impact driver" or something.
You'd be lucky to get that bolt half way down with that thing...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by nickle » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:10 pm

Jackass wrote:Build your guns up a little, use yesteryear's impact driver.
speed.jpg
Actually, something like this is a really great no power solution. You might not be placing bolts in ten seconds, but I'm betting you could do it in thirty or so depending on the length of the bolt. Also, if time isn't a factor these give you plenty of torque so even if you aren't feeling your oats you could probably still drive a bolt all the way flush.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Metorks » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:15 am

I just read this entire thread. Great stuff here.

Will these work well as the upright stakes for a monkey hut (that the pvc slides over), maybe using the 24 inch-ers, or am I better off staying with the rebar for that?
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FossaFerox » Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:29 am

Stick with rebar for monkey huts. You need a consistently tight fit (so no bolt head shape) down a decent length of exposed rebar while still having a large piece in the ground for monkey huts.

Bolts would both be too short and poorly shaped while providing the wrong kind of anchor security (you want to resist lateral stress, bolts primarily provide pull out resistance).

Mainly though, keep in mind that lag bolts work because they really grip the dense sub playa. If you only drive them in part way they'd be relatively worthless.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Fan C » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:33 am

This year in our camp the rebar is only for the galaxy hut uprights and anything we need to lash down after we run out of lags and playa staples.

Any guy lines are only tripping hazard, not also an impaling hazard.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Lo_80 » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:37 pm

joesixpack wrote:I got 20 12" x 3/8 hex head lag bolts for about a buck apiece at wholesalebolts.com.
thanks Joe!

do i have to use a 18v impact driver? would a 12v 800 in lbs be sufficient? they're much cheaper...

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by AKAFeistyMichelle » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:59 am

This thread is awesome, and I am so ordering lag screws this year, thank you.

I also wanted to share how I'm going to fix my tent and shade cords to the bolts. Industrial carabeeners with this little gem:



I actually bought my clothesline tightener at Lowes because I line dry my clothes. I did not order from Amazon, but from what I can tell the only difference is that I paid $2.75 at Lowes. As soon as I got this tightener home I knew I was going to be buying a lot more. I have been testing it out. I have used it as a makeshift rope swing. I've tied down things I would normally use tie-downs for. I've tried to make it break. It hasn't. You just pull one side of rope through until it's nice and tight. I have pounded and pulled lots of rebar, and I am seriously confident that this tightener can hold down my tent and shade (small shade). Also? So easy. I think they would work well with the lag screw method and a nice strong carabeener.

Speaking of, I have a cordless Milwaukee 12V Impact driver. It's had a lot of use on the Playa, but only for regular wood screws. Opinions on if this will work for lag screws? I'd prefer to not need an inverter.

:) Thanks!

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:49 am

Instead of a carabineer..........

Image
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by AKAFeistyMichelle » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:30 am

FIGJAM wrote:Instead of a carabineer..........

Image
But I have an entire box of gigantic But I have a gigantic box of carabineers! I need to use them. They want to be used. Really, they told me so. But honestly, with the fastening gadget I wonder if I need one at all.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SLOKnightfall » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:06 pm

I have possible concerns about the clothesline tighteners. First, I'd worry that the tightener body's grip on the rope is not enough to hold during a strong wind storm. This could be mitigated by knotting or having some thing on the end of the rope that keeps it from pulling through if the grip fails. Second is with the strength of the loop attached to the clothesline tightener. I doubt that the link is welded so depending on the severity of the wind it there might be a change that the loop will bend and be pulled free from the tightener body.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by MacGlenver » Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:59 pm

In case I havent posted it yet, this is the impact driver (corded) that I used last year. It. Kicked. Ass. $70 at Lowes.

Image
http://www.lowes.com/pd_189342-79992-PC ... Id=3880127
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by AKAFeistyMichelle » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:59 pm

SLOKnightfall wrote:I have possible concerns about the clothesline tighteners. First, I'd worry that the tightener body's grip on the rope is not enough to hold during a strong wind storm. This could be mitigated by knotting or having some thing on the end of the rope that keeps it from pulling through if the grip fails. Second is with the strength of the loop attached to the clothesline tightener. I doubt that the link is welded so depending on the severity of the wind it there might be a change that the loop will bend and be pulled free from the tightener body.
I wouldn't be able tell if the piece is welded unless I took it apart. I will say that I just hooked onto hook on the rope swing in my back yard and lifted myself off the ground for several moments. I weigh 130 pounds. My conclusion is that I need to do some push ups. :) But the rope didn't slip at all. I will say that I am no good at knots, so for me this would be a much better bet.
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by GreyCoyote » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:16 pm

Michelle;

If you look at the construction of that tightener, you will see the more load you put on it, the tighter it grips. There is no risk of slippage with increasing load. The only issue is under very light loads. Then it can slip. It's very much like one of those Chinese finger-puzzles: the more you pull on them, the tighter it grips. FWIW, there are fittings designed for steel cable that use this same approach and are not very much larger. These are rated in TONS, and the failure comes from the cable reaching its limits, not the tightener/fitting.

In this particularl design the failure point is where the outer "loop" attaches to the body. This loop, under extreme load, can separate from the body. It isn't swaged or crimped. It is just stuck in a hole in the side of the body with a slight inward force holding it there. The failure mechanism involves this loop expanding and walking out of the holes in the body. Where this occurs on the load curve is anyones guess, but I can tell you that point will be a couple of hundred pounds or more.

The biggest failure point is with the cord itself. As it is repeatedly compressed by the action of the tightener, the rope fibers get crunched and broken, and it finally fails right at the end of the tightener. This shouldn't be a problem on the playa.

Hope this helps...
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by AKAFeistyMichelle » Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:07 pm

GreyCoyote wrote:Michelle;

The biggest failure point is with the cord itself. As it is repeatedly compressed by the action of the tightener, the rope fibers get crunched and broken, and it finally fails right at the end of the tightener. This shouldn't be a problem on the playa.

Hope this helps...
It does, thanks! I already knew I would need a different kind of rope, but I'm glad you pointed out that it's a good idea not to make it too tight. I live in Reno so I'm actually going to do a test run this weekend.

One of the reasons I started looking into fasteners is because it seems I always arrive late at night in a dust storm, and I put up my structures on my own. This year I'm also taking out my son for the fist time, so I was thinking using things like these would be a good way to set up as quickly as possible, if need be, and then adjust later. Maybe even tie some knots.

Thank you, I did not expect to learn so much from this thread! :)

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Weebdog » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:52 pm

If you don't want to buy any hardware to tighten up your ropes and guy lines, try using a "Blake's Hitch". It is a locking slip knot simular to a "Prussik's knot.
http://www.animatedknots.com/blakes/index.php
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FossaFerox » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:01 pm

MacGlenver wrote:In case I havent posted it yet, this is the impact driver (corded) that I used last year. It. Kicked. Ass. $70 at Lowes.

Image
http://www.lowes.com/pd_189342-79992-PC ... Id=3880127
My campmate bought one of those to drive our 125 lag bolts. It arrived dead. We're panicking now as we were supposed to test it tonight to see if my inverter is up to the task of running it or whether we need to exchange the inverter... Did you run yours on a genny or an inverter? Any idea what the peak-load is during start up? I know it's running load is 4.3 amps but some power tools use 3-6x that when you start them...
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by chuckularone » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:07 am

Weebdog wrote:If you don't want to buy any hardware to tighten up your ropes and guy lines, try using a "Blake's Hitch". It is a locking slip knot simular to a "Prussik's knot.
http://www.animatedknots.com/blakes/index.php
I just tested this knot. (I used an old USB cable (Hey. I work a desk job, it's what I had on hand!)) I tied the knot in one end and a loop with a square knot in the other end. I hooked it over a doorknob. I stepped in the square knotted loop. It held and was still slideable after I took the weight off it. I did it again and bounced a couple times. The wire broke at the square knot and the Blake's Hitch was still slideable after removing tension. There was no slippage.

Thanks for showing me this knot!
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by lukewarmtofu » Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:47 pm

fastenersuperstore discount code for August is

AUGUST

Anyone know if the 1/2" dia lags fit inside the chain-link setup figjam has?

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