Lag screws vs everything else...

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torrey.smith
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by torrey.smith » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:25 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I just wish you had tested some lag bolts!!! :lol:
We have to do more testing. I will absolutely throw in some standard big lag bolts! What sizes/sources do you recommend?
Sarge

maladroit
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:56 pm

We do have a top end now, which helps. A 26" lag pulled out at 2055 pounds (not considering a full week of varying loads loosening it etc). So it seems we shouldn't be relying on a 14" lag for more than 1000 pounds vertical pullout, call it 750 pounds to add a safety factor.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:16 pm

A lot of people are using these for a majority of their camp needs..........

http://www.fastenersuperstore.com/produ ... lag-screws

I use 9 of them to hold the edge of my shade tarp to the playa.

I imagine the tarp will give out before the lags do. 8)

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maladroit
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:27 pm

Yeah, you'd probably do fine with just three lags, and six 12" nails just to keep the edge from flapping around. But that's the beauty of lag screws, they make overkill easy so why not do it :)

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:39 pm

I designed it so that catastrophic failure means the tarp may flap around, but no flying hunks of metal. 8)
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mooserider
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mooserider » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:00 am

FIGJAM wrote:A lot of people are using these for a majority of their camp needs..........

http://www.fastenersuperstore.com/produ ... lag-screws
Any particular reason for 3/8" versus 1/2"? Do they fit standard chain better? And no need to go for 16" or 18" length? Just checking before I order a box of them.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:14 am

I like the 3/8" because they fit perfectly through grommets on my tarp. 8)

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Ratty
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Ratty » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:25 am

Figjam, Your sign reminds me of the camp across from me last year. "Get the Fuck out of Camp, Camp". They would use a bullhorn for 30 minutes or more trying to get their members on bikes and out of camp. They actually left camp a few times but not often. Very nice people.
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Papa Bear
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Papa Bear » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:36 am

[quote="apavlin"][quote="FIGJAM"] Do they fit standard chain better?/quote]

Chain comes in all kinds of sizes, it's just a matter of matching chain to the bolt.

I use 1/2" by 18" for my structure, which is probably overkill... but at the same time I put a ton of effort into making it, so since it's just as easy to drive an 18" screw as a 14", I might as well go for that extra margin of error.

mattcamp
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mattcamp » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:21 pm

I just bought a bunch of 1/2" x 24" and 1/2" x 18" lag screws for the Discordia pyramid this year... will hopefully do the trick... really hoping the Harbourfreight impact wrench will have enough guts for the 24" ones.

Can anyone recommend exactly what type of chain is required to fit both the 3/8" and 1/2" lag screws?

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by wolfraider » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:34 pm

Just got my Lag Bolts in the mail (14" X 3/8") and noticed a good portion of them had bends in them. When I screwed them into the soft, east coast dirt in my backyard, the bend created a big hole surrounding where they went in. Even if I tried to straighten them by eye, they'd still created enough wiggle to make the hole too large.

I don't know how much force I can create myself with a piece of rope pulling away from the angle, but the soft ground definitely didn't hold as well I thought. I'm willing to chalk it up to it's being really soft/mushy soil and probably nothing compared to the strength of the hard packed playa. Again, this is east coast soft dirt... so YMMV..

Has anyone else tried them in dirt vs. the playa?

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:10 pm

If you received bent bolts, contact the company with the number that were bent.

I'd be surprised if they didn't replace them at no charge and not even require you to send the bent ones back!!!
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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:12 pm

Matt, take one with you to the store and find the chain that the bolt will easily fit through without binding, but the head cannot pass through the link.
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SourPatch
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by SourPatch » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:48 pm

wolfraider wrote:Just got my Lag Bolts in the mail (14" X 3/8") and noticed a good portion of them had bends in them. When I screwed them into the soft, east coast dirt in my backyard, the bend created a big hole surrounding where they went in. Even if I tried to straighten them by eye, they'd still created enough wiggle to make the hole too large.

I don't know how much force I can create myself with a piece of rope pulling away from the angle, but the soft ground definitely didn't hold as well I thought. I'm willing to chalk it up to it's being really soft/mushy soil and probably nothing compared to the strength of the hard packed playa. Again, this is east coast soft dirt... so YMMV..

Has anyone else tried them in dirt vs. the playa?
I received several VERY bent lag bolts (6+) and many slightly curved ones. I took pictures of the very bent batch and sent them to the manufacturer/seller. They sent me replacements bolts.
Overkill or go home.

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Just_Joe
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Just_Joe » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:50 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Matt, take one with you to the store and find the chain that the bolt will easily fit through without binding, but the head cannot pass through the link.
I had some links that were a little too small for the screw to pass through. I put them in a vise lengthwise and gave them a squeeze until they spread out a bit.

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Just_Joe
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Just_Joe » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:52 pm

wolfraider wrote: Has anyone else tried them in dirt vs. the playa?
Yes. I've never had good luck with screws or rebar in "normal" Nevada soil.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by wolfraider » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:11 pm

Just_Joe wrote: Yes. I've never had good luck with screws or rebar in "normal" Nevada soil.
Ok great I figured that was the case. My backyard is pretty muddy and moist...

FIGJAM wrote:If you received bent bolts, contact the company with the number that were bent.

I'd be surprised if they didn't replace them at no charge and not even require you to send the bent ones back!!!
I'm crossing my fingers on that one. I already took pictures and sent them in. Just something people should be aware of since we're all trading that same link to the 14" ones. :wink:

I don't know if I've ever been this excited to build something on the playa. Thanks for all your smarts 'n stuff Figjam!

raftin
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by raftin » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:12 pm

I would be curious how the anchors we use would hold up to the testing:

http://idahomojo.com/burning-man/rebar-puller.html

This is also a link to the rebar puller we use in camp.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by dbraun » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:16 am

At Anahasana Village, we use these for massive loads:

http://www.shipperssupplies.com/double- ... AnSR8P8HAQ

and we combine them with these:

http://www.shipperssupplies.com/2-box-r ... foot-plate

We get well over 8,000# of pull strength out of them. If that is not enough for you then you and combine them with this:

http://www.shipperssupplies.com/3-hole-stake-bar

We drive these in with sledge hammers and remove them with pipe wrenches. We also have a lift gate on a truck which removes most of them (we install about 50 of them) but it is possible to remove them manually.

We have never had a failure. This is the one of the best solutions for large towers and scaffolds.


For smaller stuff, I recommend the 3/8" x 12" galvanized spikes from Home depot. Combine that with a washer and it handles all tent/hexyurt needs and it is removed easily with a claw hammer. If you have a large public structure that need 1000# of pull strength and zero injury potential, I recommend Playastaples. Expensive but well worth it for reliability and safety:

http://www.ironmonkeyarts.org/buy-playa-staples.html

I am more than willing to answer questions about any of these solutions. We have been deploying them in multiple 120 person camps for 4 years.

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Elliot
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:12 am

Whoa! Lags that are bent?! I don't have time for such nonsense. Which supplier is this?

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by wolfraider » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:14 pm

Elliot wrote:Whoa! Lags that are bent?! I don't have time for such nonsense. Which supplier is this?
Supplier was FastenerSuperstore.com but they responded quickly and are going to ship me back 50 new bolts and will give me a shipping label to send back the original bunch. I'm hoping it was just a bad batch since others have recommended that link as well.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:39 pm

The main reason for that link is that it was the cheapest source for the lags that I could find.
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mooserider
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mooserider » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:06 pm

Uh, oh, these lag screws aren't going to torque off and break at removal time, are they?

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:17 pm

Haven't had one fail in 5 yrs. :lol:
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maladroit
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:44 am

dbraun wrote:At Anahasana Village, we use these for massive loads:

http://www.shipperssupplies.com/double- ... AnSR8P8HAQ

and we combine them with these:

http://www.shipperssupplies.com/2-box-r ... foot-plate

We get well over 8,000# of pull strength out of them. If that is not enough for you then you and combine them with this:

http://www.shipperssupplies.com/3-hole-stake-bar

We drive these in with sledge hammers and remove them with pipe wrenches. We also have a lift gate on a truck which removes most of them (we install about 50 of them) but it is possible to remove them manually.

We have never had a failure. This is the one of the best solutions for large towers and scaffolds.


For smaller stuff, I recommend the 3/8" x 12" galvanized spikes from Home depot. Combine that with a washer and it handles all tent/hexyurt needs and it is removed easily with a claw hammer. If you have a large public structure that need 1000# of pull strength and zero injury potential, I recommend Playastaples. Expensive but well worth it for reliability and safety:

http://www.ironmonkeyarts.org/buy-playa-staples.html

I am more than willing to answer questions about any of these solutions. We have been deploying them in multiple 120 person camps for 4 years.
Heretic in the Lag Screws thread! Down with the non-twisty ones!

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:27 am

Now now.

Every contender is welcome in this thread.

That being said, I haven't seen anything as cheap, compact, durable, with the holding power, and ease of use as The Lag Screw!!!!!!!! :lol:
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FossaFerox » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:23 pm

Those double headed tent stakes are surprisingly expensive, and since they aren't made of stainless I'm guessing they corrode over the course of the week limiting their lifespan? Some of our lag screws were in pretty bad shape when we pulled them out last year (thank you freak rain storm on day 1) but at least replacing them wasn't exactly expensive.

Honestly the only barrier for use on the lag screws that I can see is what a giant pain the impact driver can be for camps without reliable power. This year I'll be testing out a speed wrench to drive most of our bolts by hand. Nothing like starting your burn with an intense shoulder workout...
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by wolfraider » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:46 pm

Just wanted to send an update. I received my replacement box of 50 lag bolts and did a quick count. 42 of 50 were perfectly straight and 6 were wobbly when rolled (not super bad though). Only 2 had kinks like I found in the first batch.

That said, I think the first batch I got was much worse and oddly enough was sent in a larger box, so maybe that had something to do with it. Customer service was solid too.

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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by krly » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:56 pm

Just out of curiosity, has anyone actually put these in and removed them with a "speed wrench" (non-electric hand-type) ?
How easy/hard was it ?
Krly

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FIGJAM
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Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:53 pm

I would like to see it done with a speed wrench.

I know my muscles couldn't supply enough torque to do it.
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