Lag screws vs everything else...

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
Post Reply
User avatar
Elliot
Posts: 7768
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:41 pm
Burning Since: 2006

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Elliot » Fri Oct 02, 2015 10:45 am

:D
Cleaning, and bundling with stretch wrap -- very nice!

With quite a few more of them, and also spikes for rugs, I toss mine into these dilapidated tool boxes, which averaged a dollar a piece at the local flee market. Most needed new hasps, but this solution was still a bargain.

Image

mattcamp
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:40 am
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Discordia

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mattcamp » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:44 am

Sharing another lag screw experience from this year....

For the main guy lines on our 26' tower we used 3x 1/2" x 24" lag screws on each line and heavy chain to link them together to a turnbuckle then to some 10'000lb rated straps on the windward side (and to 1/4" wire rope on the other 6 lines).

These worked fantastic even in the massive winds... we had some slight issues with the straps vibrating in the wind so attached some smaller orange ratchet straps to negate that.

No way those babies were going anywhere... The ranger who came around to do a structural inspection seemed to be impressed.

http://i.imgur.com/xcTiO7D.jpg
(apologies for terrible quality pic but seems it's the only one we got)

User avatar
Canoe
Posts: 4054
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:01 pm

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Canoe » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:03 pm

mattcamp wrote:... For the main guy lines on our 26' tower we used 3x 1/2" x 24" lag screws on each line and heavy chain to link them together to a turnbuckle then to some 10'000lb rated straps on the windward side (and to 1/4" wire rope on the other 6 lines)...
Seems a shame to have the chain parts so off line of the main load (due to their resulting angle), but given the huge amount of ground that lag-bolts pull out of, you pretty much have to if you want to maximize the benefit of the lag's strength with multi-anchors. The only real negative I see is the slack going into the line if one of the bolts/chains fail, but the chance of that happening should be awfully low. Solving that and you're into the auto-load-balancing vs. shared redundant anchor debate. I think the shared-redundant won out once everything was worked out and tested. For your setup, you'd have all three anchors largely or exactly in-line with their guy-line, each with a different length of chain. This gives: each anchor their own undisturbed and unshared ground to anchor in, nearly equal load on each anchor (with the chain length correct), minimal angle difference between the main guy line and each anchor chain: for less change and far less dynamic shock if the total load goes to two anchors from three anchors in a failure.

Cool photo to see.
4.669
.
That's one word I regret googling during breakfast.
.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
, but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

User avatar
pretty_monster
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:50 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: phoenix, az

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by pretty_monster » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:44 pm

pretty_monster wrote:would it be a total fucking disaster if i used 12" bolts? i've got a 12x12 shade structure and i'm planning to put 2 at each corner (plus 4 - 8 regular tent stakes at the base of my structure that go through loops in the canopy cover.) i can hardly justify spending $50 - $80 on 8 14" bolts, let alone whatever ungodly price is charged for 18" bolts.
it was NOT, in fact, a total fucking disaster to use 12" bolts :D i used 6 bolts & 8 ropes to secure my shade structure and it was solid as a rock (THANK YOU FIGJAM FOR TEACHING ME THE TRUCKER'S HITCH). i pounded 'em in with a mallet and pulled 'em out with a hammer. easy peasy.

A++. will use again.
1) radical self reliance
2) piss clear
3) safety third
4) leave no trace

maladroit
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:07 pm

pretty_monster wrote:i pounded 'em in with a mallet and pulled 'em out with a hammer. easy peasy.
Half the point of this thread is somehow missing from this description....

User avatar
pretty_monster
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:50 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: phoenix, az

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by pretty_monster » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:22 am

i don't have power tools to bring and i wasn't going to buy 'em just for the occasion. when you live and burn as small as i do, every space-devouring single-use item purchase matters. i'm still young and spry enough to bang and pull 6 bolts.

AND 6 bolts take up way less space than 6 rebars. even if i don't use them in the most efficient way possible, saving that much extra space in a gear tote is *huge*.
1) radical self reliance
2) piss clear
3) safety third
4) leave no trace

User avatar
Ratty
Posts: 6289
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:43 pm
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Tiger Man

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Ratty » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:38 am

I like the way you think. My campmate wants lag screws. I want them too. I just can't face the power tool aspect yet. You would love the compact, Coleman propane lantern that I just got. It's so little. (Although the propane canisters are bulky).
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

maladroit
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:43 am

They aren't any better than tent stakes or big nails when they're just pounded in. Possibly worse, as they crumble the playa around the threads rather than wedging into the hole with lots of friction.

DoctorIknow
Posts: 794
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:07 pm
Burning Since: 1998
Location: Sacramento

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by DoctorIknow » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:55 pm

maladroit wrote:They aren't any better than tent stakes or big nails when they're just pounded in. Possibly worse, as they crumble the playa around the threads rather than wedging into the hole with lots of friction.
I hammer my lag screws in about 4 inches before "screwing" them in with the impact wrench, but if I was space and weight constrained in what I transport to the playa, I'd bring a long ratcheting 9/16 wrench (for the 14" lag screws) and screw them in by hand. I've seen others in this thread use the "T" shaped drivers, but packing one of those in a backpack would be a chore.

If one doesn't have a lot of lags to set, this could be an answer:

http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-85958- ... NCH+9%2F16
long wrench.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5915
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:07 am

You'd want a ratchet + socket, not a wrench. Vertically lining that wrench over that tiny head throughout the entire process would be a total pain. Even with a ratchet, I'd probably just stick with pounding rebar if I didn't have a drill/impact driver.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
sparr
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:01 am
Burning Since: 2015

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by sparr » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:57 pm

BBadger wrote:Vertically lining that wrench over that tiny head throughout the entire process would be a total pain.
You use the other hand to hold the head of the bolt and the wrench aligned with each other, allowing it all to turn within your grip.
If you want to make a reply about my personality instead of about what this thread is about, don't clutter this thread, post over here instead.

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5915
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:53 am

sparr wrote:
BBadger wrote:Vertically lining that wrench over that tiny head throughout the entire process would be a total pain.
You use the other hand to hold the head of the bolt and the wrench aligned with each other, allowing it all to turn within your grip.
And your point is?
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
sparr
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:01 am
Burning Since: 2015

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by sparr » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:10 pm

BBadger wrote:
sparr wrote:
BBadger wrote:Vertically lining that wrench over that tiny head throughout the entire process would be a total pain.
You use the other hand to hold the head of the bolt and the wrench aligned with each other, allowing it all to turn within your grip.
And your point is?
That most people aren't good at using a wrench, and need some tips on how to avoid the wrench jaw slipping off the bolt head.

PS: If you want to get clever, you can use the thumb of the same hand to do it, but you lose leverage that way. Only good for the early twists.
If you want to make a reply about my personality instead of about what this thread is about, don't clutter this thread, post over here instead.

maladroit
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:21 pm

sparr wrote:That most people aren't good at using a wrench, and need some tips on how to avoid the wrench jaw slipping off the bolt head.

PS: If you want to get clever, you can use the thumb of the same hand to do it, but you lose leverage that way. Only good for the early twists.
It's just way easier to use a socket wrench (even better with a foot-long extension). I took out 2-3 14" lags using a socket wrench this year and it was pretty easy.

Trying to get a box-end wrench below grade (because lags are usually screwed all the way down to the playa and then some) sounds horrible.

maladroit
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:46 am

The magnet Mjolnir hammer video going around is pretty cool, but a person could build a playa version by building an impact driver and lag screw into the hammer.

User avatar
Weebdog
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:03 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Paper Cranes
Location: Ben Lomond, CA

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Weebdog » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:46 pm

How about using a "cross bar" lug wrench. Lots of leverage and you can hold the top and spin the side arms until it got to hard. It would be handy if you had a flat tire too.
Run Silent - Run Deep

User avatar
Ratty
Posts: 6289
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:43 pm
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Tiger Man

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Ratty » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:58 pm

You had me at 'crossbar'.
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5915
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by BBadger » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:28 pm

For me, the main motivation for using lag-bolts in the first place is the fact that powertools makes setup and teardown a snap. Bending over a cross-bar to twist the lag-bolts into place sounds like a long and tiring process that has to be repeated twice (in and out). At least the pounded rebar pops out pretty quick with vise-grips or a crowbar.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

Meat Hunter
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:44 pm
Burning Since: 2014

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by Meat Hunter » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:34 pm

After setting 12 ea. 1/2" x 18" lag bolts using a 1/2" drill in 2014, I just cannot for the life of me imagine someone having the physical strength to set lag bolts by hand - any means.

I suppose that I am trying to say is that those of you who set lag bolts manually have my undying admiration. It has to be absolutely and totally physically exhausting.

Oh, to be twenty again - if for nothing more than but for a moment or two. How about for twenty minutes? Yup. Twenty minutes would do quite nicely, thank you..... My wife, my girl friend, my mistress -- anyone of them would thank you. :wink:
Specializing in Calibrating Windsocks -- Any where, Any Time, and Any elevation.

Vidi ego exars.

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10337
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:08 pm

If I had to do lags by hand, I would pound them to within 5"s of being installed and then ratchet the last 5.

Still seems like a lot of work.
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

maladroit
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:27 am

With a socket wrench, better out than in I always say.

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10337
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:11 pm

Lags won the Golden Rebar awards..................so there's that. 8)
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 3604
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:31 am

We have the Figjam Cooler. So should we call this the Figjam Golden Lag Screw?

Congratulations!

(There is also the Galaxy Monkey Hut, the Shiftpod Tent - what other playa things have proper names, or named after people? Especially things that catch on across camps and years. Why isn't the hexayurt named after the inventor?)
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
lucky420
Posts: 9238
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:47 am
Burning Since: 2021
Camp Name: Dye with Dignity
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by lucky420 » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:14 am

I think because Vinny is humble that way ^^
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10337
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:44 pm

OK, I just watched "The Martian", and they seemed to have everything they needed for a successful mission.

But it would have been a lot easier if they had just brought along some LAG BOLTS!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

maladroit
Posts: 2375
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by maladroit » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:47 am

FIGJAM wrote:OK, I just watched "The Martian", and they seemed to have everything they needed for a successful mission.

But it would have been a lot easier if they had just brought along some LAG BOLTS!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
The main story probably wouldn't have even happened! Just think about it FIGJAM, lag screws may someday actually be used on another planet because of your introduction of them to a large community.

User avatar
sadie
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:36 pm
Burning Since: 2014
Camp Name: Solomio
Location: Texas

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by sadie » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:48 am

Ok, so I am considering drinking the lag screw kool-aid.
HF has a 1/4" cordless impact driver on sale, and for a few dollars more there is a 1/2" cordless hammer driver.
Which one is my best bet?? I don't really know the difference between "impact" and "hammer" in drill/driver lingo.
In my reading through the thread, I think the 1/2" hammer driver but would appreciate experienced opinions.
I like the extra handle on the hammer driver...so maybe I won't twist my wrist during set up...
If I've told you once, I've told you ten thousand times..jazz hands goddammit....JAZZ HANDS!!!

mattcamp
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:40 am
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Discordia

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mattcamp » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:53 am

sadie wrote:Ok, so I am considering drinking the lag screw kool-aid.
HF has a 1/4" cordless impact driver on sale, and for a few dollars more there is a 1/2" cordless hammer driver.
Which one is my best bet?? I don't really know the difference between "impact" and "hammer" in drill/driver lingo.
In my reading through the thread, I think the 1/2" hammer driver but would appreciate experienced opinions.
I like the extra handle on the hammer driver...so maybe I won't twist my wrist during set up...
You want an impact wrench.

An impact driver/wrench applies the "hammer" style action in a horizontal/circular manner. A hammer drill just applies this vertically which doesn't work anywhere near as well when driving a lag screw into the playa.

I haven't used the 1/4" cordless unit but I used the HF 1/2" AC unit last year to drive in over 100 lag screws (including several 1/2" x 24" big ones) just fine... we had to let the driver cool down half way through the 24" screws but overall it worked well.

When in doubt, over-engineer it.
Last edited by mattcamp on Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

mattcamp
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:40 am
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Discordia

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by mattcamp » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:54 am

Also, if you're searching on HF note that "impact driver" and "impact wrench" turn up different results.... the one I have is listed as the 1/2" Heavy Duty electric impact wrench.

User avatar
sadie
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:36 pm
Burning Since: 2014
Camp Name: Solomio
Location: Texas

Re: Lag screws vs everything else...

Post by sadie » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:04 am

Excellent.
Thank you.
If I've told you once, I've told you ten thousand times..jazz hands goddammit....JAZZ HANDS!!!

Post Reply

Return to “Building Camps & Villages”