Hammer or post driver for rebar

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spoka
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Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby spoka » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:53 am

Is it easier to use a hammer (which kind?) or a post driver to pound in 5/8" x 24" rebar into the ground?

I suspect the post driver is safer, would last longer, but would take longer to pound in the rebar. A hammer would give you more momentum, but is easier damaged because if you missed, the rebar would chip away at the neck of the hammer.

I did find this post from 2009 which suggests both options, but doesn't say which one is better. https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?t=28483

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby Thecatman » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:59 am

You're talking about putting 24" rebar in the ground. Every post pounder I've seen are more than 24" long. And heavy. At least the ones we use where I work.
I would think a 3lb single jack should suffice. Just practice your aim. :wink:
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby trilobyte » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:01 pm

I'm giving this a nudge over to Shelter & Camping, since that's a better fit for a discussion about staking.

Personally, I would never use or advocate the use of rebar - it's a fucking pain in the ass to work with. You should be able to find dozens of threads on securing structures and working with rebar on the board. If you do go that route, I'd recommend using candy cane rebar instead of straight pieces, then use a sledge and make sure you've got some kind of rebar puller.

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:38 pm

After pounding in rebar and removing it from the playa for four fucking years I am done with it. Done.

I highly recommend that you avoid the pain and the hassle by avoiding rebar all-together.

This year our camp will be investing in 14 inch lag screws and bringing an 18v impact driver: https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68556
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby unjonharley » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:30 pm

I just set up a monkey hut green house.. Used Lag screws.. I have a large lead acid battery for camping.. Wheeled it out to the garden hooked up the inverter to extention cord and impact drill.. Banged those lag screws in no time..

The real plus of lag screws is, They go flat to the ground and nothing to trip over..

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby danibel » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:24 pm

Lag screws sound interesting. I can't use them though.

I take 24 inch rebar, a 3lb sledge (also a 5 lb'er), and a pair of good vice grips for removal. I put in about 10. Six go into the legs of my shade structure, and then 4 out on a slant for tiedowns covered, and lit of course.
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby Elorrum » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:44 pm

I hammer rebar once a year, about 12 pieces, tops. I know there are easier ways, but the investment in a new tool, generator, and lag screws, just doesn't make sense for me. and yes I know some say you can use a ratchet. Let's race with hammer vs. ratchet, and if ratchet wins for time, maybe I'll consider it for next year.
I have a three pound sledge, and I bought a 4 inch black pipe nipple and cap as a pounder aid.(photo is of galvanized, but I like the black pipe) It gives me a little larger surface area to hit. Last year I couldn't find it, and still was able to put those 12 stakes in the ground, I pull them out with a pair of long handle slip joint pliers, twist them around both ways and then pull up.

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby spoka » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:30 pm

Thecatman wrote:You're talking about putting 24" rebar in the ground. Every post pounder I've seen are more than 24" long. And heavy. At least the ones we use where I work.
I would think a 3lb single jack should suffice. Just practice your aim. :wink:


Thanks @Thecatman. Looks like a 3lb single jack is my only choice. I didn't realize post drivers were so long.

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby spoka » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:34 pm

Elorrum wrote:I hammer rebar once a year, about 12 pieces, tops. I know there are easier ways, but the investment in a new tool, generator, and lag screws, just doesn't make sense for me. and yes I know some say you can use a ratchet. Let's race with hammer vs. ratchet, and if ratchet wins for time, maybe I'll consider it for next year.
I have a three pound sledge, and I bought a 4 inch black pipe nipple and cap as a pounder aid.(photo is of galvanized, but I like the black pipe) It gives me a little larger surface area to hit. Last year I couldn't find it, and still was able to put those 12 stakes in the ground, I pull them out with a pair of long handle slip joint pliers, twist them around both ways and then pull up.

Image
Image


@Ellorrum, I like your idea of a pounding aid. Is a "Black pipe" the same as a "Black iron pipe" and why is that preferred over other types of pipes? I went to McMasters looking for these parts, but couldn't find an exact match for black pipe.

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby Elorrum » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:46 am

Black iron, yes. It may not be actually true. But I imagined that the galvanized pipe as you whack it might shed some material.
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby some seeing eye » Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:16 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGyFWnsSKvY

But I have to say, if I need more holding power than a gutter nail, I'm trying Mr Figjam's lag bolts. Rebar is good for Monkey hut ribs as the video shows.
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby ^Rhino! » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:25 pm

I'm just curious, has anyone tried a vibrating hammer or similar arrangement (even home built)? It's a common construction practice in difficult conditions to use a vibratory hammer to drive H-piles, but I'm talking about something smaller (do they make anything like that?) We've even used a vibratory hammer for the installation of sheet piling for a cofferdam. Worked like a charm.

[media]


Something for personal use on playa would be smaller, and would probably have to be home built.

Rebar? Pffft. 12" landscape nails with a washer hammered flush always did the trick for me, and I pull them with a normal hammer. No muss, fuss, or bother.
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby unjonharley » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:52 pm

Like a hammer drill.. Or chisel "air/electric" hammer, that just hammers.
One year I saw a slide hammer on the playa..Pipe went over the rebar.. A rod that fit inside the pipe.. A three lb, hammer head attached to the rod.. The a wooden handle on the rod.

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby ^Rhino! » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:00 pm

unjonharley wrote:Like a hammer drill.. Or chisel "air/electric" hammer, that just hammers.
One year I saw a slide hammer on the playa..Pipe went over the rebar.. A rod that fit inside the pipe.. A three lb, hammer head attached to the rod.. The a wooden handle on the rod.


You know, unjonharley, that there are a number of manufacturers that make an electric hammer drill for going through concrete with up to a 1/4" hole. If there was some way to mate the drill chuck loosely to a pipe that went over the rebar, you could drill it right in with vibration. To extract, reverse. Something like that should work.

OK, playa do-it-yourself-ers......we've come up with a functional germ of an idea. Anybody want to chime in? This is what it means to be in a DO-ocracy........
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby unjonharley » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:30 pm

Last year sand here at home in the garden I used a hammer drill..

Put an old over size socket just bigger than the rebar..

Extract with vise grips and pinch bar..

I run the drill off my storage battery w/inverter and (50ft.) extension cord..
Last edited by unjonharley on Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby EspressoDude » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:32 pm

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby unjonharley » Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:44 pm

EspressoDude wrote:Image


After six years and a lot of over time with one of those.. I was sure it followed me home at night.. Or it had grown to my hand.. Now and then I would trade up to a 90 pounder... Government spec rivets were tough to button.. The 90 pound hammer was hard to handle walking 6 inch steel, 50 feet in the air..Took a lot of booze to keep me coming back.. eight hours on the hammer then four more on the overhead crane.. Couple of times I went 60 days without a day off..

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby tamarakay » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:12 pm

Ok, on that video be drilled that rebar in really far, but how did he get it back out?
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby unjonharley » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:25 pm

tamarakay wrote:Ok, on that video be drilled that rebar in really far, but how did he get it back out?


Attach vise grips to the rebar close to the ground.. Use a crow bar to lift on the vise grips.. Use a small block of wood to keep the crow bar from sinking into the playa.. 1/2 inch rebar will hold most domestic shelters.. Fence posts may take a tractor to pull then out.. Been there did that..
Last edited by unjonharley on Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby EspressoDude » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:25 pm

unjon: what did you say, I saw your lips move but didn't hear much.....bam, bam, bam, about 30 times a minute
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby unjonharley » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:38 pm

You mean 30 times a second.. Or that s the way it felt.. Makes you say huh? a lot

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby spoka » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:34 am

unjonharley wrote:Last year sand here at home in the garden I used a hammer drill..

Put an old over size socket just bigger than the rebar..

Extract with vise grips and pinch bar..

I run the drill off my storage battery w/inverter and (50ft.) extension cord..


Mr. Wizard documents how he built his Rebar Hammer here: http://www.litebrite.org/rebarhammer/

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby some seeing eye » Sat Apr 26, 2014 10:41 am

Mr Wizzard was my mentor and I borrowed his hammer. He had an excellent art car too. Very generous individual. So yes, it's way back knowledge and he deserves all the credit.
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby unjonharley » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:00 am

Bit of over kill for most of us.. Same idea only smaller equipment.. Really like the angel box.. I think the angle is very important.. The line coming down @45 and the stake back @45

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby Meat Hunter » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:06 am

Not knowing that the wheel had already been invented by Mr. Wizard, several weeks ago I built a very similar hinged wooden jig to set my 18" x 1/2" lag bolts.

I did several test runs in rock-hard clay using a 1/2" non-hammer drill and they went in as smooth as Caravansary silk.
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby BBadger » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:58 pm

^Rhino! wrote:
[media]


Looks good, but will I be able to power one of those off a EU1000? I'm trying to cut down on weight.



But really, this next time, after using 18" rebar stakes, I'm going with lag screws instead.
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby ^Rhino! » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:11 pm

BBadger wrote:
^Rhino! wrote:
[media]


Looks good, but will I be able to power one of those off a EU1000? I'm trying to cut down on weight.


There IS a diesel-powered version, but are you sure you want to? It's overkill. Like cracking an egg with a sledgehammer.

If I really need holding power, rebar and lag screws are so passé. I'll grab a handful of the mini helical foundation anchors I can get from AB Chance up the road. The big ones are used to anchor radio towers. The minis ought to be able to hold up any tent in any wind,
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby unjonharley » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:30 pm

Up until last year I used 1 ft. rebar staples set at a 45 away front the shelter.. A stick of wood and a pinch bar was over kill pulling them... While they were in use, nothing could pull them at a 45..

This year, going with a new monkey hut.. Rebar in the legs, 1 rebar staple out front and lag screws..

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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby Drawingablank » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:49 pm

Hi,

If you don't mind my asking, what did you use for a cover on the Monkey Hut greenhouse?

Since I fly out to the burn these days, my original monkey hut is just sitting in the garage and I sure could use a greenhouse.


unjonharley wrote:I just set up a monkey hut green house.. Used Lag screws.. I have a large lead acid battery for camping.. Wheeled it out to the garden hooked up the inverter to extention cord and impact drill.. Banged those lag screws in no time..

The real plus of lag screws is, They go flat to the ground and nothing to trip over..
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Re: Hammer or post driver for rebar

Postby unjonharley » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:00 pm

For the monkey hut green house cover.. I used opaque plastic.. Got it from the paint dept. Home Depot.. put it over and rolled the bottom up on a 1 x 2 board.. The sun breaks this stuff down pretty fast.. It will only last part of the year..


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