Countering blue flag abuse?

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
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Lonesomebri
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Lonesomebri » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:25 pm

The original post has nothing about reserved spots for theme camps. Nothing to do with placement. Nothing to do with early arrival. Nothing to do with theme camps (other than how to identify). That's for the elites to debate, this OP is about us losers who come in after the gate opens and find space that is not reserved for theme camps but is reserved by douches outside theme camp area. Maybe everyone needs to re-read the original post. I enjoy how theme camp early arrival folks can't quite grasp the original complaint.
dentin wrote:In 2013, our small camp of 6+ people got in at around 6:30 pm sunday and started setting up on our planned location near 7:00 and I. There were flags planted (I believe they were red, but they may have been blue), but we didn't notice until we got fairly far along with setup. When we found them, we figured they were markers showing where the roads were, because the entire block (and nearby blocks) seemed to be flagged. We continued setting up. Over the next few hours, a handful of other small camps set up near us.

About four hours after we started setting up, we were approached by a guy walking around with a flashlight. He told us that he had reserved the space we were in using the flags ("didn't you see the flags?") He then told us that the company he works for had a lot of RV's coming in, and asked us if we could find a different space. Our veteran burner decided this was unacceptable, and we decided to stay. We also informed the neighboring camps, none of which elected to move either.

Over the next few days, quite a few RV's did arrive, but it was at least mid-week before all the space on that block was claimed. Had everyone honored the reservation, the block would have been largely empty for most if not all of the week.

I'm camp lead this year without veteran support and I'd like to have a better handle on what to do in this sort of situation. Calling a ranger every time you suspect someone is abusing theme camp flags seems like a bad solution, and meanwhile you can't set up your camp.

So, what is the normal policy for handling this? How do we deal with, or handle people who aggressively mark off territory when they won't even start to fill it until wednesday? How do we know if a blue flagged area is a legitimate theme camp, or if it's just some jerk from an RV company trying to get premium space for his paying clients?

Thanks in advance.
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skippy3k
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by skippy3k » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:33 pm

maladroit wrote:Just one guy guarding an acre of land? I have a hilarious vision of him running frazzled from one side to the other while claim-jumpers slowly encroach from all the borders. Can't stop watching, can't sleep for even one minute...that guy's burn sucked.
Ha! This reminded me of my childhood when we would go camping before there was the internet and reservations. My dad would kick me out of the vehicle to "hold" a campsite while he drove around to see if there was a better one. So there I was, a skinny 7 year old, sitting alone in a ratty lounge chair, praying to the gods that some tired and angry guy in a 5th wheel wouldn't drive up and try to strong arm me out. Come to think of it, it's almost 40 years later and I would still have that feeling if I had to hold a spot on the playa. Some things never change I guess....
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by melodiousdirge » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:05 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:The original post has nothing about reserved spots for theme camps. Nothing to do with placement. Nothing to do with early arrival. Nothing to do with theme camps (other than how to identify). That's for the elites to debate, this OP is about us losers who come in after the gate opens and find space that is not reserved for theme camps but is reserved by douches outside theme camp area. Maybe everyone needs to re-read the original post. I enjoy how theme camp early arrival folks can't quite grasp the original complaint.
...and therefore the rest of the discussion is invalid, or...?
Beware teh snarkasm

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Dr. Brap
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Dr. Brap » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:32 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:The only real problem with doing what I consider the right thing and telling people who insist you move out of "their" un-officially-placed space to fuck off is that you don't want to be their neighbors anyway. It's a problem that I dunno what to do about because allowing it to happen sucks too.
Exactly! I got on playa Sunday evening while it was still light out last year. I pull into a nice looking spot that is clearly labeled open camping on the map. I open the back of my truck and some fool rushes over to ask why I'm ignoring the flags for his theme camp. I tell him it's after 6pm and he proceeds to tell me how in the wrong I am. The clear thing here was that this guy sucked. 5 minutes in and I don't like anything about him. Right or wrong, why on earth would I want to spend another minute near him, let alone a full week? In the land grab scenario, that is the question you have to ask yourself. Do you want to be next this person?

It's not as if you won't be able to find another spot.
Burn Burn yes you're gonna Burn.

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by skippy3k » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:29 pm

You know....maybe we are all looking at this the wrong way. If you try to be as big of a fucknut as possible, you might just get an entire block all to yourself....hmmm....
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by melodiousdirge » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:33 pm

skippy3k wrote:You know....maybe we are all looking at this the wrong way. If you try to be as big of a fucknut as possible, you might just get an entire block all to yourself....hmmm....
I was thinking if you're concerned about the neighbor being a dick because he tried to land grab, you could always try to reverse his own game on him and try to get him to leave through creative assholianism.
Beware teh snarkasm

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by unjonharley » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:48 pm

On e year the camper next door went to bed with his genny running.. It was one of those EU oil burning crap.. Right under my van and in the door.. I shut the damn thing off.. So this big bear crawls out and speaks to me..I picked up my hammer and told him I could fix that oil smoking and him along with it.. He said I wasn't very burner like and went back to bed.. The next day he moved..
I'm the contraptioneer your mother warned you about.

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Jovankat » Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:00 pm

melodiousdirge wrote:
skippy3k wrote:You know....maybe we are all looking at this the wrong way. If you try to be as big of a fucknut as possible, you might just get an entire block all to yourself....hmmm....
I was thinking if you're concerned about the neighbor being a dick because he tried to land grab, you could always try to reverse his own game on him and try to get him to leave through creative assholianism.
You can get Simon to help!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Simon of the Playa wrote:i'll be gifting my services out as an asshole, or a prick, or just plain nasty to anyone who needs some east coast in their life.

these types of situations are perfect.


why get your knickers in a twist? Just come find me and i will deal with the 'flaggers'.....


consider it "performance art" since it is indeed, the one week of the year i can fly into temporary psychosis and call it that. :twisted:

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melodiousdirge
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by melodiousdirge » Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:45 pm

Jovankat wrote:You can get Simon to help!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Well we are already practically besties. Might as well team up.
Beware teh snarkasm

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by lalanalla » Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:00 am

I would just like to say how much I have enjoyed reading this thread. This is my 6th burn and I have been lucky enough to not really have to deal with shitty neighbors. But there's a first time for everything!

I'm still a teensy bit unclear about the colored flags and their meanings - but I'll let that go.
I'm sorry, I wasn't listening.

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by unitivity » Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:32 am

They have blue palm trees there?
unit

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Lonesomebri
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Lonesomebri » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:56 am

melodiousdirge wrote:
Lonesomebri wrote:The original post has nothing about reserved spots for theme camps. Nothing to do with placement. Nothing to do with early arrival. Nothing to do with theme camps (other than how to identify). That's for the elites to debate, this OP is about us losers who come in after the gate opens and find space that is not reserved for theme camps but is reserved by douches outside theme camp area. Maybe everyone needs to re-read the original post. I enjoy how theme camp early arrival folks can't quite grasp the original complaint.
...and therefore the rest of the discussion is invalid, or...?
No, the rest of the discussion was just answering and addressing issues the OP was not asking about.
Question- "Can someone just grab a plot of land and hold it? Do the blue flags or the map indicate placement. What should I do?"
Answer- "Yes, theme camps are placed."

Almost like a dodge. Or some people really can't grasp the original complaint because of perspective.....
I hope this clarification is valid.
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by maladroit » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:49 am

Lonesomebri wrote:Almost like a dodge. Or some people really can't grasp the original complaint because of perspective.....
I hope this clarification is valid.
It's because there really aren't rules. People who aren't dickheads can probably work something out together peacefully. A non-dickhead might be able to work something out with a dickhead with minor grudges involved. A Placer might be able to ease the process by choosing one of the possible options to be an ultimatum. A Placer could also be a dickhead. Or have to become one, when dealing with two arguing dickheads.

In general, there's a lot of space available so there's little reason to fuck up someone else's plans. Unless everyone agrees that their plan sucks.

It's sort of like when you're sitting on an airplane that isn't full. You have the row to yourself, boarding is almost over, there are five other empty rows. You look forward to relative luxury. One more passenger comes on and sits right next to you. They are within their rights but they're kind of a dickhead. A flight attendant won't want to get involved beyond what the seating chart says. You could gather up all your stuff and move, but you're going to be slightly pissed off about it. However, if you knew the person or they somehow impressed you with how interesting they were, you might welcome the opportunity to share your space with them to make the flight more enjoyable.

So if you're going to try to find space in someone's staked out claim, bring your game. Fresh food. Drinks. Juggle popsicles while on stilts. Point out your custom solar power grid with extra capacity and your sound system and your shade structure.

You can be antagonistic and run get a Placer to come up with an impromptu rule, but Mom is tired and busy so you might not get what you want.

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Aurelia
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Aurelia » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:58 pm

BRAVO !!!

Now Maladroit, please come over and do that for all the rest of the issues

This Mom no longer considers them interesting enough to get involved with anything less than a punch

xoA.

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Just_Joe
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Just_Joe » Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:24 pm

I have and am bringing pink flags to save some space for people I don't really like (or don't like me).
Expect to see the entire block of 3:00 and L flagged.

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AntiM
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by AntiM » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:15 pm

I dunno, pointing out your sound system may not be the best tactic when approaching a potential neighbor. :twisted:

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:51 pm

But maybe that person isn't a dickhead, maybe s/he would just like company on the flight. After all, we are a social species, and much as we might not like some of the ways it manifests, the truth is we are biologically/ecologically programmed to want to be with others of our kind. Following that imperative doesn't make someone a dickhead. No matter what your perceived territorial needs are.
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by maladroit » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:37 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:But maybe that person isn't a dickhead, maybe s/he would just like company on the flight. After all, we are a social species, and much as we might not like some of the ways it manifests, the truth is we are biologically/ecologically programmed to want to be with others of our kind. Following that imperative doesn't make someone a dickhead. No matter what your perceived territorial needs are.
Dickhead until proven innocent

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by theCryptofishist » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:46 pm

How american of you...
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by thirt33n » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:14 am

Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes who just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn't appropriate — and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know that if you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!
blow.

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Aurelia » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:35 am

well I gotta say this is an interesting thread .

This Pussy quite likes dickheads

and practices kickboxing , particularly uppercut sudden moves when for example a real dickhead turned into an asshole and ran over my camp flags to back up his rig squashing my cot flat.
That was a few years ago; but I think it stands for clarity in the hole matter.

xoA.

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by louisacrystal » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:48 am

When I got to the playa we had a hard time finding land. I was getting frustrated because everyone was looking to me as to where we should land. Because they were virgins. I found a spot on 8:45 and I. But it was all roped off. It was allot of space 3 times the amount that we needed! I asked around if anyone knows who's spot it was. I literally had people from each street corner come over and say that someone showed up at 10am roped it off then left. I looked at my clock and it was now 8pm. They said that people have been passing up this spot all day and none of them thought that it was fair! They all told me that we should just move in! I was happy to take down their ropes and move in especially with all the neighbors backing me up! And I had read this post, so I felt confident that we would be fine. My husband on the other hand didn't want to set up camp then have to move again. So between being worn out from the drive and trying to explain to him that I know what I'm doing, it did get a bit tense. But we decided to stay! First we just took a corner and reposition their ropes. The neighbors all seemed glad to see someone have the balls to not put up with land grabbing! You can't come at 10am then expect to save space all day without even putting up a lawn chair! Halfway through our set up more people came up to us and asked if they could camp in the roped off space. I told them the deal. And that I would back them up if they backed me up! This happened 3 more times until we had our own little street corner full of happy Burners! It felt good when the people who roped it off finally came by at 11:30pm they kind of stood there dumbfounded! I'm sorry but holding land for an hour or two is one thing but all day! And they didn't even look like they needed all that space! I'm glad that I read this post because 2013 was my return to the playa after a 10 year break! And I was amazed at how hard it was to find a spot! Not like it was ten year ago! And I was starting to panic this year when I realized that everyone wanted me to pick our landing spot! Thanks for everyone sharing their experience and problems they've had it helped me make my decision to take the land.
I have gone out to find myself. If I get back before I return, Please keep me here until I get back. Thank you!

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Lonesomebri » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:21 pm

louisacrystal wrote:When I got to the playa we had a hard time finding land. I was getting frustrated because everyone was looking to me as to where we should land. Because they were virgins. I found a spot on 8:45 and I. But it was all roped off. It was allot of space 3 times the amount that we needed! I asked around if anyone knows who's spot it was. I literally had people from each street corner come over and say that someone showed up at 10am roped it off then left. I looked at my clock and it was now 8pm. They said that people have been passing up this spot all day and none of them thought that it was fair! They all told me that we should just move in! I was happy to take down their ropes and move in especially with all the neighbors backing me up! And I had read this post, so I felt confident that we would be fine. My husband on the other hand didn't want to set up camp then have to move again. So between being worn out from the drive and trying to explain to him that I know what I'm doing, it did get a bit tense. But we decided to stay! First we just took a corner and reposition their ropes. The neighbors all seemed glad to see someone have the balls to not put up with land grabbing! You can't come at 10am then expect to save space all day without even putting up a lawn chair! Halfway through our set up more people came up to us and asked if they could camp in the roped off space. I told them the deal. And that I would back them up if they backed me up! This happened 3 more times until we had our own little street corner full of happy Burners! It felt good when the people who roped it off finally came by at 11:30pm they kind of stood there dumbfounded! I'm sorry but holding land for an hour or two is one thing but all day! And they didn't even look like they needed all that space! I'm glad that I read this post because 2013 was my return to the playa after a 10 year break! And I was amazed at how hard it was to find a spot! Not like it was ten year ago! And I was starting to panic this year when I realized that everyone wanted me to pick our landing spot! Thanks for everyone sharing their experience and problems they've had it helped me make my decision to take the land.
VICTORY !!!!!!

Note: this has nothing to do with placed Theme Camps, and that all the people saying that there is plenty of room, work something out, blah, were not here in reality helping these people out finding a space for a camp. Theories vs. reality.
Camp THREAT: Dominating the porta potties 3 years running.
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
- Voltaire, Candide

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Jovankat » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:33 pm

When we arrived for early entry and our placer walked the perimeter with us we discovered our neighbours had moved some of the blue flags and encroached on our allotted space. The Placer went and spoke to them, the guy with the trundle wheel who puts out the flags was called and from what I'm told they were given a stern talking to. Between the placer talking to them and the flag dude turning up one of the camp came and spoke to us, explained that it was their fuck up for not measuring their gear and asked if we could come to an arrangement. Luckily we had a little more space in that direction and could squish things in a little so it was fine from our point of view but from what I can gather that camp got into a bit of trouble for having moved the flags. The flag dude in particular was PISSED.It was made pretty clear to us at least that while encroaching on another camp's placement without permission was poor form, moving the flags was significantly worse. We were told a note would be made about the incident and it would probably affect the camp's chances of getting placement next year. So yeah, this stuff is taken seriously. And I guess it's probably good to know that even if you come to a mutually agreeable arrangement with your placed neighbours you should still leave the flags where they are.

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by ygmir » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:28 am

Lonesomebri wrote:
louisacrystal wrote:When I got to the playa we had a hard time finding land. I was getting frustrated because everyone was looking to me as to where we should land. Because they were virgins. I found a spot on 8:45 and I. But it was all roped off. It was allot of space 3 times the amount that we needed! I asked around if anyone knows who's spot it was. I literally had people from each street corner come over and say that someone showed up at 10am roped it off then left. I looked at my clock and it was now 8pm. They said that people have been passing up this spot all day and none of them thought that it was fair! They all told me that we should just move in! I was happy to take down their ropes and move in especially with all the neighbors backing me up! And I had read this post, so I felt confident that we would be fine. My husband on the other hand didn't want to set up camp then have to move again. So between being worn out from the drive and trying to explain to him that I know what I'm doing, it did get a bit tense. But we decided to stay! First we just took a corner and reposition their ropes. The neighbors all seemed glad to see someone have the balls to not put up with land grabbing! You can't come at 10am then expect to save space all day without even putting up a lawn chair! Halfway through our set up more people came up to us and asked if they could camp in the roped off space. I told them the deal. And that I would back them up if they backed me up! This happened 3 more times until we had our own little street corner full of happy Burners! It felt good when the people who roped it off finally came by at 11:30pm they kind of stood there dumbfounded! I'm sorry but holding land for an hour or two is one thing but all day! And they didn't even look like they needed all that space! I'm glad that I read this post because 2013 was my return to the playa after a 10 year break! And I was amazed at how hard it was to find a spot! Not like it was ten year ago! And I was starting to panic this year when I realized that everyone wanted me to pick our landing spot! Thanks for everyone sharing their experience and problems they've had it helped me make my decision to take the land.
VICTORY !!!!!!

Note: this has nothing to do with placed Theme Camps, and that all the people saying that there is plenty of room, work something out, blah, were not here in reality helping these people out finding a space for a camp. Theories vs. reality.
agreed. well done. "society in action"........proud of you!
YGMIR

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Lonesomebri
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:33 am

louisacrystal wrote: ...make my decision to take the land.
The term "Hero" gets thrown around far too much now days, though that was my first choice as a playa name, but this pioneer earns my admiration and then some. Thank you for fighting the good fight and showing us all the way.
Camp THREAT: Dominating the porta potties 3 years running.
"If this is the best of all possible worlds, what are the others?"
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FossaFerox
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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by FossaFerox » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:39 pm

melodiousdirge wrote:
unjonharley wrote:all reserved spaces are clearly marked on the map you will receive at the gate.
That's a nice thought, but not always the case. I've had space conflicts on two separate occasions with theme camps that were not shown on the map to be using the space they claimed was theirs. I've also wound up camping in a spot that was marked as reserved on the map, but was not in fact flagged out or claimed by anyone. The nature of the event is just that the map isn't perfect; even the "final" one they give you at the gate.
A quick word on this, not all theme camps show up on the map. If you ask not to be included in the WWW guide on your questionnaire then you don't show up on the map either. As a proud resident of that curiously empty 50x100 piece of this year's map by 9:15 and E, I promise you we were placed.

Of course, when we got there our yellow flag had been run over and shredded (only a corner remained, a shame as I wanted it as a souvenir) and there was no discerning our blue flags from the ones that marked our neighbors' boundaries. To the casual observer it might have looked empty, but as luck would have it we only had about 6" of a neighbor's hexayurt occupying our space when we got there late Saturday night after spending the afternoon in the will call line. The yurt might have been a problem as my camp is one of the "wall to wall" arrangements, but we were able to squeeze in nicely as our actual lot seemed to measure about 51' in length. Phew.
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by mooserider » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:51 pm

Not sure if this would be thread drift, but....

what if some [censored] moves in your officially required fire lane? How does one stake out a fire lane as reserved "no one parks here including us"?

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Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by VultureChow » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:06 pm

Firehose?
Sic Semper Spectatores

maladroit
Posts: 2365
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: Countering blue flag abuse?

Post by maladroit » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:22 pm

Fire.

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