Opinions on this Shade Structure, Please?

[Lo_80]

Hi Everyone!
My first post and my first burn.

Do you think this shade structure will hold up to snuff? Any and all advice is much appreciated!

Thanks!

[theCryptofishist]

Put the leaf litter in a child's wading pool so it doesn't moop.

[FossaFerox]

Aside from the fact that you won't have trees to tie it to, I'm guessing the anchors are wholly inadequate and those poles probably won't fare well.

Remember, 75 mile an hour winds.

Would you pitch this tent on the back of a pick up truck and drive it down the highway for a week?

Don't be this guy:



If you think he's having a bad burn, imagine the poor guy downwind who's taking that tent to the face.

[Elderberry]

Agree

[Lo_80]

Even if I use lots of guylines and rebar?

I got the idea from these pics:





They look sturdy enough...

[FossaFerox]

The first one you posted is made of shade cloth, it's wind permeable so it doesn't have to be very strong. And it's STILL staked down with rebar, probably 2+ feet in length. Your structure isn't wind permeable. It's a kite.

The second one uses much shorter poles and has much better anchors, but I still wouldn't call it secure. One big gust and that thing will come tumbling down, though the fact that it's all of 1m tall means it's unlikely the wind will find it so long as the neighboring structures are still there.

[Jackass]

I say, do it. You do have the option to take it down whenever. Use a vehicle as a wind break, you should be fine. A piece of shade cloth or rainfly material flapping violently in the wind isn't likely to decapitate or impale anyone. If it's that bad outside you got bigger things to look out for, like you neighbor's sketchy tarped scaffolding set up, or the dome next door that's starting to lift off, or a tumbling ez-up..

[shroom]

I had one similar to yours, but smaller. I positioned it between my tent and my friends tent to make a 'porch' for us. It was staked down and also hooked to the tents. it held up well. It didn't have those poles, just the flexible ones that run through it much like a tent.

[Lo_80]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I think I'm just going to go with the wind permeable one:

[Ano]

Every year is different. Historically, since 2011, the weather has been amazingly light during the event week. Last year that was a majorly bad storm pre-event (quite a few actually) but they all subsided by the time event week rolls around.

Like FossaFerox said, if you would be comfortable driving your structure on the back of a truck down the highway at 75 mph, it'll probably do fine on the playa. If you think it would bend or break... try something else.

[Ratty]

One year we used a 'sail' like that. From REI, cut on the Bias with a secure seam down the middle. Ours was triangular instead of square. It was secured to a vehicle on one corner, a 5 foot skinny aluminum pole on one corner and angled down to a short pole on the 3rd. It was amazing. It flexed with the strong winds and never came close to failing. I say go for it. Just use strong rope and deep stakes.

[theCryptofishist]

but it looked like such a joke!

I guess I look like an ass.







Again.

[Lo_80]

Like FossaFerox said, if you would be comfortable driving your structure on the back of a truck down the highway at 75 mph, it'll probably do fine on the playa. If you think it would bend or break... try something else.

This was the clincher for me. I'm not an experienced camper by any means, so setting up something given FossaFerox's caveat is a bit unsettling. Also, this is the cheapest, most portable option so that helps! I have a small car so saving space is a big deal.

[Lo_80]

but it looked like such a joke!

I guess I look like an ass.







Again.

hahah, Crypto, i thought your comment was hilarious!

[Elderberry]

but it looked like such a joke!

I guess I look like an ass.

No, you don't. I've seen those things get blown away. As was stated earlier, these past several years have been relatively calm, giving people a false sense of what it can actually be like out there. And on the playa, you always want to be prepared for the worst weather conditions.

[theCryptofishist]

but it looked like such a joke!

I guess I look like an ass.







Again.

hahah, Crypto, i thought your comment was hilarious!

Thank you.

[Lo_80]

but it looked like such a joke!

I guess I look like an ass.

No, you don't. I've seen those things get blown away. As was stated earlier, these past several years have been relatively calm, giving people a false sense of what it can actually be like out there. And on the playa, you always want to be prepared for the worst weather conditions.

Yes i posted in here hoping for honest opinions and i would much rather have a bad idea shot down in here than regret it later on the playa.

[Ano]

Like FossaFerox said, if you would be comfortable driving your structure on the back of a truck down the highway at 75 mph, it'll probably do fine on the playa. If you think it would bend or break... try something else.

This was the clincher for me. I'm not an experienced camper by any means, so setting up something given FossaFerox's caveat is a bit unsettling. Also, this is the cheapest, most portable option so that helps! I have a small car so saving space is a big deal.

Again, YMMV. To a ridiculous extent. We really don't know what the playa will be like this year until we are all out there. I was out there recently, and lemme just say, the conditions were far worse than anything I've seen since 2011. Soft playa, high winds, it was difficult. But, there was just rain in the last few days, and who knows, maybe there will be a massive rainstorm that hardens the whole crust up, followed by a week of zero wind. Last year, I was hit by some pretty nasty storms pre-event. Friday pre-event, I believe, was the last one. The wind blew all night, visibility was shitty in some parts of the city, and I was a bit afraid for the week. 2013 had some amazingly calm weather during the event, though. So... who knows. You could be fine with this structure. You could also be building a future Playa-sail, destined for your neighbor's noggin. Personally... I think it wouldn't survive unless you really tied it down, and maybe reinforced the legs with some extra Rebar through the poles.. Even then, you'd need to be ready to tear it down if we get some high winds. Which is always a possibility. But, it could also be totally fine and survive all week.

If you're looking at other options, check out the Monkey Hut. I've used them for years, and I would trust them to survive if properly tied down. With some PVC, a tarp, some rebar, and some rope or ratchet straps, you can have a wonderful and functional shade structure that will last you for awhile.


edit: http://www.chromatest.net/Lovemonkey/ Here's the monkey hut. Very easy to build, trust me. In 2011 when I built my first one, I had never picked up a hammer. I had to shop in home depot for hours to make sure I had the right stuff. It took me nearly two hours to put it up my first time. Nowadays, I can have this sucker up or down in twenty minutes or less, and I could probably buy a new one from memory in about 30 minutes.

[FossaFerox]

Ano, rains this late won't trigger compaction. The playa has to be wet during the winter freeze cycles to firm up. Rain now will just help with dust abatement. lo_80, the BIGGEST THING is to get DEEP anchors. The top surface of the playa is going to be more dust than clay this year. You need to sink something down deep for it to have any holding power.

I'd recommend 18" of depth on rebar or 14" of depth on lag bolts. Rebar is a pain to drive and remove and require caps or bending into "candy canes" so no one impales themselves during the burn (one of the leading causes of injury, stepping on exposed rebar or falling on it SUCKS). Lag bolts are much easier and nicer, but you'll need a GOOD impact wrench. With such a small structure you could probably get a battery powered porter cable or makita one and have enough juice to both drive and remove. There are threads on this forum covering both in detail, particularly sourcing and working with them (Fig Jam's lagbolt thread is super useful).

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to follow up. It's late in the season but you can get this done and we really do want to help. Oh, and thank you for being responsible. There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to playa engineering. "Safety third" is a great joke motto when you're there and it's a question of acting responsibly. But when you're in the comfort of your home designing things there is no excuse for cutting corners, which you seem to understand. Awesome.

[some seeing eye]

Hello Lo_80. If you search the board for Aluminet, you will find many sources. It is aluminized mylar shade mesh. It comes from the factory in roughly 7, 14, 21, 28 foot widths at about $.33/ square foot. You can get webbing sewn around the edges and grommets for a fee or use clips to attach it to your poles and guy lines. Some suppliers will make to order and some have stock pieces ready to go. It's useful other times of the year if you, garden, or pets need shade but not rain protection. You can hang it up outdoors and hose the dust off. It's readily resalable to other burners.

It will catch some wind, and is comparable in that regard to black or green shade cloth which is slightly cheaper. Center camp uses shade cloth and many camps are shading hundreds of square feet of camp area with shade cloth.

The suppliers become backlogged this time of year. We are approaching the closing window for burners to order custom sewn and shipped.

It would be a better solution, and can be set up like some of the photos you have.

Aluminet is very light weight and compresses well in a zipped duffel with compression straps. It rides well lashed to the roof rack.

Enjoy your burn!

[Lonesomebri]

When you set up whatever you set up, consider having a nice secure guy line attached somewhere to your vehicle, even if it all goes south, the blow-out will be anchored, like a kite instead of rolling like a tumble weed.

[FIGJAM]

When designing any shade I start with "Prep for Failure".

This simply means that if it's going to fail, it will fail at the grommets so that nothing will be flying around with stakes or poles attached.

If the shade clothe is the only thing flying around there's practically no chance of denogginizing the neighbors!!!

My silver tarp is 12'x45', so it may knock you down, but it won't kill you.

[Lo_80]

Thanks so much everyone!

I looked into the monkey hut option but my car won't fit all that PVC.

I've decided to go with the shade cloth mesh tarp, (aluminet is too expensive for me).

Lag bolts with a drill! Brilliant! This is just for the shade guylines right?
Can I use regular stakes for my tent? MSR Groundhog for instance?

Can anyone recommend a good adjustable tarp pole? Can I use the collapsable kind with the bungee cord inside?

[jneilvindy]

I say don't worry about it and just set your stuff up without any stakes, rebar or tie-downs!

Someone or something gets clobbered by flying debris then I say I guess they weren't really prepared for everything the playa could throw at then now were they?

[FIGJAM]

It's easy to make your own telescoping poles out 3/4" and 1" emt, and they will be stronger than most things you can buy.

[GreyCoyote]

You might get away with it... and you might not. If you are prepared for a failure (and have a backup plan that doesn't involve being adopted by your neighbors), then game on. The only person suffering is you, and you'll be wiser for the experience.

I would suggest you look at the many pictures of Burning Man on the web. Ignore the sparkleponies and shirtcockers and pay very close attention to the structures you see. Veteran burners invest in highly durable structures because they've seen the price of failure. Most have been victims of failures themselves, so they overprep everything. Resilient structures can be a lot of work to setup and take-down, but in the end you have a bombproof shelter that doesn't need babysitting, adjustments, or worrying.

The playa can be a harsh mistress.

[jneilvindy]

I'm using the rescued shoestrings watered with the tears of despair from orphan's shoes to secure all my camp stuff.

Surely the God's wouldn't be so cruel as to break those would they??

[FIGJAM]

You must have a better class of God!!!

[FossaFerox]

Lo_80, how good your tent anchors need to be depends on how much wind your shade deflects (almost none) and how strong/weighted down your tent floor is.

A good Coleman with the super reinforced lower seams might be okay with conventional 10" stakes. Might be. Lag bolts come in packs though so why risk it?

Also, don't rely on wind shielding from your neighbors. They might leave early. Saw that happen to a guy who had tied part of his shade to his neighbor's RV with permission, but I guess they didn't ask when they were leaving. They left before the temple burn much to the other guy's dismay. His stuff got thrashed.

[Ratty]

Lo_80, I learned a new trick this past year. Pounding in the rebar was pretty easy but when it came time to get it out my campmate handed me a small to medium size pipe wrench. It grabbed ahold of that rebar like glue. I spun it around a couple of times and pulled it out with no effort. Magic. At least this gives you an option.