Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

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pepagirl
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Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by pepagirl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:12 pm

So after much research and consideration, we have decided to build a monkey hut this year. We'd like to do the 10x10 footprint (similar as seen here http://hitpoint.ca/munkyhut/), but we are travelling solo in a car and 10 ft PVC pipe may not be an option.

I've been reading and brainstorming on how to make it with double the amount of 5 ft PVC pipe (1 inch diameter) , but I'm feeling like we'd be sacrificing a lot of structural integrity by doing so. Has anyone used 5ft sections successfully? How did you secure them together? I was thinking of putting 2ft sections of 1.25 inch diameter pvc over each connection and reinforcing with duct tape , but is that enough? My second to worst Burn nightmare would be chasing my hut down the playa or having it impale someone...

(One rib would consist of 4- 5ft long 1inch diamer pipes and 3- 2 ft long 1.25 inch diameter pipes) I'm worried it just won't have enough strength. Any suggestions? Would adding additional guylines (other than the one at front and back opening) inside and/or outside the structure be an adequate solution?

Also, I've read so much about how you should avoid those short T and X connectors... so for the spine on top, is it better to lay it across the top of the ribs and bungee/duct tape/tie/etc at each crossing? Or is there a better way that I'm overlooking? Thanks for any help!

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by VultureChow » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:18 pm

People have indeed done the "sleeve" connection with 5' pvc sections. Yes, there is greater rigidity, but I haven't heard of one failing yet.

I still use the T and X connections, but more and more I'm seeing the top just lashed together with bungees.

One question. Have you tried fitting the PVC into the car yet? obviously it depends on the model and the number of passengers, but 10' pvc seems to fit whole into most vehicles, though it might have to go in diagonally.
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pepagirl
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by pepagirl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:27 pm

I had my partner measure the car and at the longest point diagonally inside he got 9 ft. Unfortunately I'm in another state, so that makes this whole process a huge headache for me. (I'm the brains, he's the brawn! ;) ) If we put the 10 ft pipe through the backseat and into the trunk it would probably very uncomfortably fit from trunk to dashboard, but I'm going to have to have him go buy the pipe and check it out when the kids are in school. You have to put the whole seat down in this car too (not just the middle section) so we'd be losing quite a bit of packing space in the back seat, but it may be possible.

Thanks for the quick reply, this planning from 3,000 miles away is driving me bonkers!

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by Drawingablank » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:30 pm

I have used the 5 foot section type with no problems. We transported it cross country in our Prius with the pipes on the bottom side by side and the cooler atop them.
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by VultureChow » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:34 pm

You caught me on a brief break from crocheting my fingers to the bone.

Check out this post here: viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68933&start=60#p1018256

Describes their experience doing the sleeve connector.

The only other point I would make is that the bungee balls used for connecting the tarp to the hut are absolutely the way to go. Keeps the tarp taut and are easy and forgiving to install. I didn't bring enough last year and filled in the extra with some cable ties, but the balls were so much better.
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pepagirl
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by pepagirl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:36 pm

Drawingablank, thanks for the quick response. Does my vision of using the 2ft pipes and lashing the spine together at the top sound anything similar to what you've done? Did you use anything extra to secure the connections or add any extra guylines?

Thanks VultureChow, i'm checking the link out now. We'll definitely be using the bungee balls, I saw a video on them and fell in love!

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by Drawingablank » Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:44 pm

pepagirl wrote:Drawingablank, thanks for the quick response. Does my vision of using the 2ft pipes and lashing the spine together at the top sound anything similar to what you've done? Did you use anything extra to secure the connections or add any extra guylines?

Thanks VultureChow, i'm checking the link out now. We'll definitely be using the bungee balls, I saw a video on them and fell in love!
I use the standard Lovemonkey design found here: http://www.chromatest.net/Lovemonkey/

Modified to shorter poles as per: http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 61#p554968

And regardless of what anyone says, a super heavy duty (opaque) tarp is way cooler in the sun than aluminet or other shade cloth. I get my tarps and bungee balls at: http://www.creativeshelters.com/Tarps/C ... lockerTarp

I do not like the idea of lashing the pipes and prefer the lovemonkey design. I use a ratchet strap at front and back to a rebar on the playa as my only attachment to the ground. This has worked fine for 3 burns.

Some photos of it in action:
3day1.jpg
3daybobbincoat2.jpg
On the lower photo you can see the sleeves on the poles which flatten the curvature slightly, but that's not really an issue as you can see.
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by MyDearFriend » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:04 pm

Cut your PVC into 5 foot sections; shorter than that and you lose the curvy flexibility, which you NEED for STABILITY. I put my 5 foot sections of 1"together with sleeves made of 1.25" and ALSO: I drill a hole straight though the centers of each sleeve, and thread a 3" by one-quarter eye bolt through. That keeps the leg sections from meeting anywhere but the center, and, that eye makes a handy place to hang things inside the hut. 8)

DAB and I have been camping together and debating the tarp or aluminet question for 3 years now. The right answer is, of course, aluminet! :lol: :lol: :lol:

BUT WE ALL AGREE ABOUT BUNGEE BALLS 8) 8) 8) and they are so damn useful you will want about 50 more than you bring. At least.
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by shroom » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:09 pm

great info, thanks
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by Drawingablank » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:09 pm

MyDearFriend wrote: DAB and I have been camping together and debating the tarp or aluminet question for 3 years now. The right answer is, of course, aluminet! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yet, as you can see from MDF's dust mummy avatar with the aluminet in the background - some folks are just stubborn about using inferior (yet more expensive) products lol.
Savannah: I don't know what it is, but no thread here escapes alive. You'll get 1 or 2 real answers at minimum, occasionally 10 or 12, and then we flog it until it's unrecognizable and you can't get your deposit back.

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by Milayna » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:14 pm

I use the design you are describing (where you duct tape/bungee the spine to the ribs) with great success. Here's a link to a good blog post on it: http://www.maxicon.com/Burning_Man/PVC_ ... _playa.htm

I also cut that down to the 5 foot sections, and I used 2 foot sleeves of 1.25" pvc to re-connect them. I did not duct tape those sleeves at all, they held fine. I did, however, drill a screw into the 2 foot sleeves in the center to make sure they didn't slip at all.

Mine has held up 2 burns in a row with the same pieces, and with no on-playa adjustments needed once it's up. I used a heavy duty silver tarp over it, and I had a guy line on both of the open sides of the hut.

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by pepagirl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:30 pm

Thanks everyone for all the help and suggestions, I feel MUCH more confident now! I'm really liking the lovemonkey (thanks drawingablank) design with the bigger pipe connections and fitters, I think we'll stick to that basic model and probably add an anal amount of securing lines and bungee cords. I'm definitely starting to relax a bit now! Thank you ALL so much!

Hopefully we can fit the 10 ft pipe in the car, but if not I've got it all sorted out in my head now how to go about making it properly with 5 ft sections.

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by Drawingablank » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:36 pm

I forgot to add that the hut in my photos from 2011 the only damage was 2 bent rebars. Bent from the wind - the pvc and tarp held up quite well though.

That would be less issue with aluminet, although you would sacrifice some protection from wind / dust, and an aluminet hut is about 10 degrees warmer in the sun.

But rebar is cheap to replace when necessary.
Savannah: I don't know what it is, but no thread here escapes alive. You'll get 1 or 2 real answers at minimum, occasionally 10 or 12, and then we flog it until it's unrecognizable and you can't get your deposit back.

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by pepagirl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:13 pm

Drawingablank wrote:
pepagirl wrote:Drawingablank, thanks for the quick response. Does my vision of using the 2ft pipes and lashing the spine together at the top sound anything similar to what you've done? Did you use anything extra to secure the connections or add any extra guylines?

Thanks VultureChow, i'm checking the link out now. We'll definitely be using the bungee balls, I saw a video on them and fell in love!
I use the standard Lovemonkey design found here: http://www.chromatest.net/Lovemonkey/

Modified to shorter poles as per: http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 61#p554968

And regardless of what anyone says, a super heavy duty (opaque) tarp is way cooler in the sun than aluminet or other shade cloth. I get my tarps and bungee balls at: http://www.creativeshelters.com/Tarps/C ... lockerTarp

I do not like the idea of lashing the pipes and prefer the lovemonkey design. I use a ratchet strap at front and back to a rebar on the playa as my only attachment to the ground. This has worked fine for 3 burns.

Some photos of it in action:
3day1.jpg
3daybobbincoat2.jpg
On the lower photo you can see the sleeves on the poles which flatten the curvature slightly, but that's not really an issue as you can see.
Looking at https://creativeshelters.com/category/s ... ocker-tarp at the 10x20, which is what the directions would say I need... but the creative shelters website says this "Actual sizes are 4" to 6" shorter in length and width than order size." Does that mean I'd need to order a 14-16 X 24-26 ft tarp from them? Just a wee bit confusing.

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by FIGJAM » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:21 pm

Do yourself a favor and get a PVC cutter and life will be easier. 8)
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by BBadger » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:07 pm

pepagirl wrote:Looking at https://creativeshelters.com/category/s ... ocker-tarp at the 10x20, which is what the directions would say I need... but the creative shelters website says this "Actual sizes are 4" to 6" shorter in length and width than order size." Does that mean I'd need to order a 14-16 X 24-26 ft tarp from them? Just a wee bit confusing.
This really depends on the tarp manufacturer, and sometimes the tarp itself. I got heavy duty 12x20ft Harpster tarps from Amazon and they were actually larger than I needed (they're great tarps if you want to spend the money) and I had to do some monkeywork to deal with the extra length. Still, other tarps can be too small, and even then, some people were complaining that the Harpster tarp was undersized for their needs.

Overall, it's better to err on the side of too much tarp than too little. Those 12x20 tarps, from whatever brand you choose, are probably what you'll end up with anyway, because they're a standard size.

Another thing to consider is using some bungees as depicted in this set of instructions (step 10) to apply some elastic pull on the interior sections of the tarp between the ribs. That should reduce the amount of flap too.
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by Drawingablank » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:22 pm

pepagirl wrote:
Drawingablank wrote:
pepagirl wrote:Drawingablank, thanks for the quick response. Does my vision of using the 2ft pipes and lashing the spine together at the top sound anything similar to what you've done? Did you use anything extra to secure the connections or add any extra guylines?

Thanks VultureChow, i'm checking the link out now. We'll definitely be using the bungee balls, I saw a video on them and fell in love!
I use the standard Lovemonkey design found here: http://www.chromatest.net/Lovemonkey/

Modified to shorter poles as per: http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 61#p554968

And regardless of what anyone says, a super heavy duty (opaque) tarp is way cooler in the sun than aluminet or other shade cloth. I get my tarps and bungee balls at: http://www.creativeshelters.com/Tarps/C ... lockerTarp

I do not like the idea of lashing the pipes and prefer the lovemonkey design. I use a ratchet strap at front and back to a rebar on the playa as my only attachment to the ground. This has worked fine for 3 burns.

Some photos of it in action:
3day1.jpg
3daybobbincoat2.jpg
On the lower photo you can see the sleeves on the poles which flatten the curvature slightly, but that's not really an issue as you can see.
Looking at https://creativeshelters.com/category/s ... ocker-tarp at the 10x20, which is what the directions would say I need... but the creative shelters website says this "Actual sizes are 4" to 6" shorter in length and width than order size." Does that mean I'd need to order a 14-16 X 24-26 ft tarp from them? Just a wee bit confusing.
I use their standard 10 x 20 tarp which is just short enough that standard bungee balls provide the correct tension for a 10 x 12 foot monkey hut. 10 foot long (between the ribs) x 12 feet wide.
Savannah: I don't know what it is, but no thread here escapes alive. You'll get 1 or 2 real answers at minimum, occasionally 10 or 12, and then we flog it until it's unrecognizable and you can't get your deposit back.

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pepagirl
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by pepagirl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:44 pm

Awesome, great info guys! Thank you both! :D

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by maryanimal » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:13 pm

Has anyone used the Zip-Ties instead of the bungee balls? Pros vs. Cons?
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by BeeWeeDee » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:26 am

I have used the sleeve on the 5' monkey hut rib sections successfully. The only additional comment that I can add is that I also insert a 6" spacer in the sleeve between 5' rib elements, effectively giving me 11' ribs - This allows me to tighten my tarp tight as a drum.
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by VultureChow » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:40 am

maryanimal wrote:Has anyone used the Zip-Ties instead of the bungee balls? Pros vs. Cons?
I used both last year as a result of not bringing enough balls. I'm in the ball camp. Though I can't say whether the balls added to the structural integrity or flexibility of the structure, they were just so much easier to use and remove.
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by BeeWeeDee » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:09 am

maryanimal wrote:Has anyone used the Zip-Ties instead of the bungee balls? Pros vs. Cons?

I use zip ties just because I have a very inexpensive source. They don't give and take with the forces on a MH and I have had to re-stake after a windstorm when I have used them. I believe bungees would not cause the jerking motion and not pull the stakes as readily. Once purchased, bungees could be reused - zip ties (single use). I also have to be more careful that I don't MOOP the zip ties whereas I would still see value in the bungees at the end of the burn.
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by burn_shady » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:00 pm

To re-couple your 5' lengths, use a 6" sleeve made of 1.25" pipe and tie a piece of paracord through the sleeve first. Don't use duct tape, it is too dependent upon the current environmental conditions (in my experience... all of my careful pre-playa duct taping had to come off immediately once I was on the playa). In this solution, 6" seems to be the sizing sweet spot. Any longer and too much paracord is sandwiched between the pipes and it may be stuck forever. Any shorter and the 1" pipes tend to start to deflect out of the containing sleeve itself.
coupler_sm.jpg
For the X and T connectors, NEVER just rely on the strength of the connector itself as though you were just routing the plumbing contents (e.g. using a 1.25" T with only three 1.25" pipes coming into it). For the X and T connectors, I've had great luck using 1.25" connectors with 1.25" pipes as long as I always embed at least a foot long 1" section of pipe through the middle of the connector (using two of the 1.25" pipes as sleeves so to speak and again, using <3" lengths of paracord).
embedded.jpg
(For your purposes, ignore the hole in the middle of the embedded pipe)

Every pluming fitting I've tried to use on its own has failed in some way. No fittings with embedded pipe segments or 1.25 sleeves with paracord have ever failed for me under the same circumstances.
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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by conundrum » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:22 pm

maryanimal wrote:Has anyone used the Zip-Ties instead of the bungee balls? Pros vs. Cons?
What about 'runing rigging' as described here http://suspendedanimationcrew.com/burni ... amp_Up.pdf

I only ask because I have a ton of paracord and no bungee balls... seems like their drawing has grommets much closer together than 18". Should I make a run for bungee balls?

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Re: Monkey Hut modifications help for a car traveller

Post by VultureChow » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:29 pm

There's no reason the paracprd can't work, except as stated above, it might put more stress on the frame and is more tedious to rig than the balls.

Amazon has 50 of them for $10 right now. If it were me, I would just order them at this point.
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