RV tire and jack pads, electrical grounding

[mooserider]

Greetings, all.

I was just wondering about the practicality and MOOPiness of using pads under my RV tires and leveling jack feet (or even lowering the jack feet at all) on the playa. For normal camping, I have these slabs of preservative-treated construction beam plywood (2" thick, 12" wide, and cut in 18" lengths from the original 12-foot piece) that I put under the tires and jack feet to protect the tires from the ground when sitting still for a while, and to spread out the weight at both the tires and jack feet. Would this be a problem on the playa surface, or a good idea?

Also, for safety electrical grounding at locations when I can't drive a NEC-compliant grounding rod, I have a large metal plate I put under the boards at one back tire to press a solid electrical contact into the ground (diamond-plate sheet metal with a ground wire terminal on one corner). Would this be a problem? Or are standard 8-foot copper ground rods allowed on the playa (sideways buried or vertically driven)? I'm not sure if I need to go to these extremes for electrical safety with a generator and/or lightning storms, but I'd rather be prepared and safe than see crispy critters leaning against my RV (if you get my drift).

[skippy3k]

I only used pads under my stabilizers to spread out the weight. No need to try and be level since the ground is pretty level. As for protecting the tires...forgettaboutit. Dust will be everywhere.

[FIGJAM]

I would use the jacks to keep the RV from swaying in the wind.

I know that if I don't use jack stands under my playapod that the rocking is considerable.

[ygmir]

as long as you plan on picking up and taking away said pads, I can't see it being a moopy thing.

[mooserider]

as long as you plan on picking up and taking away said pads, I can't see it being a moopy thing.

That was indeed the intent. That kind of heavy-duty lumber is too expensive to throw away after a single use. My concern was whether the material was incompatible with the playa surface for some reason (chemical reaction of dust with the wood preservative, wood would dry out and split/splinter, etc.). Considering that the jack feet on this RV have punched through inadequate asphalt pavement at some campgrounds in the past, I wanted to make sure the weight load was spread out over enough surface area that the jack foot wouldn't sink into the playa (and then get cemented there after a rainstorm).

Now you have me wondering whether I should wrap the extended jack legs in tarps to keep the playa dust off the now-exposed hydraulic cylinder shafts.

[ygmir]

as long as you plan on picking up and taking away said pads, I can't see it being a moopy thing.

That was indeed the intent. That kind of heavy-duty lumber is too expensive to throw away after a single use. My concern was whether the material was incompatible with the playa surface for some reason (chemical reaction of dust with the wood preservative, wood would dry out and split/splinter, etc.). Considering that the jack feet on this RV have punched through inadequate asphalt pavement at some campgrounds in the past, I wanted to make sure the weight load was spread out over enough surface area that the jack foot wouldn't sink into the playa (and then get cemented there after a rainstorm).

Now you have me wondering whether I should wrap the extended jack legs in tarps to keep the playa dust off the now-exposed hydraulic cylinder shafts.

don't over think it.............rust happens quite fast from playa dust. that said, the hydraulic rams will probably have a light coat of oil anyway, and the wiper will clean off the dust as you run it in.
and the foot will not "cement in" after a rain, though if it sinks it will be sticky.

[skippy3k]

I know that if I don't use jack stands under my playapod that the rocking is considerable.

Well played, sir. Well played.

[Ratty]

My shade structure shrinks as the week goes by. If you put up a carport with bare tubes on the bottom touching the ground the vibrations from the wind dig it into the surface inch by inch. I just keep tightening the straps as the ceiling gets lower.

[Elliot]

I use plywood under my tires, primarily in case of a major rain. I don't know about the preservative, but I somehow doubt it would be a problem. As for wood-debris, you do want to keep a close eye out for that.

You may drive your ground-rod into the ground if you wish. As with everything else, you just need to take it with you when you leave. I doubt you will be able to drive it very far down.

[GreyCoyote]

In an RV, you really don't need to worry about grounding it. As long as you are either IN or OUT (and not touching it if outside it), you'll be fine. It's a (cheap-ass, ineffecient) Faraday cage, but it works. The only way you would be in danger is if you were touching the RV and had your feet on the playa... then it would get ugly fast... but the conductivity of the playa sucks anyway, so even with a ground rod, you're not going to gain a lot of safety. In a storm, you either need to be inside a Faraday cage, standing on one hell of an insulator far from anything metal and elevated, or on the playa surface with both feet very close together.

The only place I would INSIST on a ground rod would be in a dome. Here you need to get the charge off the frame and to the ground as fast as possible without arcing. The inhabitants are standing ON the ground, and could become the shortest pathway TO ground during a flashover if there wasn't a lower-impedance path designed to drain the Faraday cage to ground. Here a couple of 4-foot long rods would work (forget about driving an 8 foot rod into the playa without hydraulics. heheheh).

FWIW, I was inside our dome this last year when that guy on the art car was hit. That bolt went almost directly overhead and I actually drew sparks from the dome while standing on a fiberglas ladder. Freaked me out! I will NEVER enter an ungrounded dome again!

[Popeye]

GC is 100% correct when you it comes to lightening, but the most common electrocutions associated with RV's, mobile homes and the like are when the metal skin is electrically hot from a fault to the frame that does not trip the main breaker. Someone touching the skin and a good ground at the same time will fry. RV's are built assuming they will be fed from a four wire RV Park feeder ( 2 hots, neutral and a ground). To often the feed from a camp generator is three wire, 2 hots and a neutral. With a 4 wire feeder the neutral and ground are not bonded in the RV panel, if the 4 wire feeder is replaced with a 3 wire, your ground is non existent and breakers may not trip making the skin electrically hot. Poorly maintained bond connections in the RV or mobile home can add to this problem.
A dry playa may not be conductive enough to allow current to travel through your body into the playa. I wonder if anyone has ever done a test on this?

[mooserider]

Well, part of the reason I'm worrying about grounding is because I'm a ham radio operator, and the most convenient and efficient HF antenna I've found for long-term portable operations is a 40-foot-tall vertical (Butternut HF-6V, for those interested) mounted on the rear ladder of the RV. Having the antenna tip nearly 50 feet in the air (adding the RV height to the antenna length) would seem to be a high lightning risk, even though it reduces the RF exposure to random people passing by. So I want to make sure I have a solid path to ground from the antenna in case of a sudden storm when I can't get back to camp in time to lower the antenna.

Besides, I'm assuming the other parties in my camp will want to mooch off my generator (no specific plans yet; my regional is having a planning meeting for their art project in a couple of weeks), and I have power to spare, so I want them to be safe as well.

[some seeing eye]

Search for camp Papa Legba and OpenBTS, contact them - they put up a tower which has to be grounded. BMIR as well, the "official" playa FM radio station. There are amateur radio people on this board too, search and PM. As long as you are going to have a tower, you could look into stepping WiFi into your camp from the main burning man Internet connection to the outside world.

[Elderberry]

Speaking of generators, does anybody actually ground them?

[Popeye]

Speaking of generators, does anybody actually ground them?

Assuming you mean driving ground rods. If you are using a small generator and just running a couple of cords off the factory outlets on the generator you should be ok. You are carrying the generator ground from the frame on the cord. If you are using the generator to power a large installation; sound camp, several RV's, etc. then you should drive rods if it is a three phase or 3 wire system. A four wire system you don't need to, even if it is a good idea.
The most important thing is to properly maintain the ground system in your RV. Check the bonds before you come to BM. If you have a mounted generator then the generator frame should be bolted to the RV frame and a ground wire should be carried with the power cable to your panel or generator/mains switch. Having the generator just sitting in contact with the roof is NOT "good enough".

[some seeing eye]

You can search ePlaya for grounding generator. There is controversy about the quality of the playa ground. I believe since it is salt and moisture if you get down to moisture, ground should be good. Others disagree citing ground maps. YGMV depending on the use of the ground.

[Popeye]

Well, part of the reason I'm worrying about grounding is because I'm a ham radio operator, and the most convenient and efficient HF antenna I've found for long-term portable operations is a 40-foot-tall vertical (Butternut HF-6V, for those interested) mounted on the rear ladder of the RV. Having the antenna tip nearly 50 feet in the air (adding the RV height to the antenna length) would seem to be a high lightning risk, even though it reduces the RF exposure to random people passing by. So I want to make sure I have a solid path to ground from the antenna in case of a sudden storm when I can't get back to camp in time to lower the antenna.

Besides, I'm assuming the other parties in my camp will want to mooch off my generator (no specific plans yet; my regional is having a planning meeting for their art project in a couple of weeks), and I have power to spare, so I want them to be safe as well.

OK, you are setting up a ground plane for your antenna which is not the same as an electrical system ground.
Depending on the set up you might want to bond the ground plane to the system ground. This would eliminate an RF potential between the ground plane and the RV.

[mooserider]

Well, part of the reason I'm worrying about grounding is because I'm a ham radio operator, and the most convenient and efficient HF antenna I've found for long-term portable operations is a 40-foot-tall vertical (Butternut HF-6V, for those interested) mounted on the rear ladder of the RV. Having the antenna tip nearly 50 feet in the air (adding the RV height to the antenna length) would seem to be a high lightning risk, even though it reduces the RF exposure to random people passing by. So I want to make sure I have a solid path to ground from the antenna in case of a sudden storm when I can't get back to camp in time to lower the antenna.

Besides, I'm assuming the other parties in my camp will want to mooch off my generator (no specific plans yet; my regional is having a planning meeting for their art project in a couple of weeks), and I have power to spare, so I want them to be safe as well.

OK, you are setting up a ground plane for your antenna which is not the same as an electrical system ground.
Depending on the set up you might want to bond the ground plane to the system ground. This would eliminate an RF potential between the ground plane and the RV.

No, the RF ground plane is at the level of the RV roof (to keep RF away from nearby pedestrians), using tuned radials held up on 11-foot-tall poles (or the roof of the RV). That problem has already been solved (used it for ARRL Field Day last year). My present concern is the lightning safety ground for having a tall conductive structure in an open area; for Field Day, I had nearby trees taller than my antenna to function as lightning rods, but even then I made sure to have an earth ground for the antenna system (one untuned "radial" went straight down the back of the RV to the earth ground). Can't guarantee at BM that something else nearby would be tall enough to divert a lightning strike.

[Popeye]

I'm far from an expert on lightening but some thoughts:
Is the tower bolted to the RV, a good electrical connection between the metal tower and the RV? Are you bonding your metal plate to the RV or to the tower? If to the RV then lightening will tend to flow through the RV to the plate. It might anyway if the potentiual of the lightening is high enough.
I'm assuming the tower is metal. Could you use PVC or fiberglass?
Any piece of steel sticking up in the air can attract lightening, the better grounded it is the more attractive. Could you set up the antenna away from the RV? Then put a 90 bend in the feedline, lightening will tend to follow the straightest path.
They make lightening arresters. Do you have one on your feedline?
A lightening rod is a grounded tower to attract lightening away from a house, etc.. It is isolated electrically from everything around it. This includes capacitive isolation.

Edited to add: If I was worried about lithtening I think I woulod isolate instead of ground.