Using your car part of your shade structure

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Navi_Keef
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Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Navi_Keef » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:39 am

What kind of setups have you done or seen using your car as part of your shade structure? Im really just looking to put shade over the kodiak tent im going to order so I can have some extended sleeping time. mounting a tarp or whatever i choose for shade to the roof of my car and using 2 poles in the ground with guy line seems like a great idea but i would love to see some ideas of what others have done too! was looking at sets they sell on amazon and ebay but way too much and way too easy of a project.

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:46 am

I think if you search for "shade structure" and car, vehicle, etc. you will find this discussed.

The wind is capable of pulling the luggage rack off. Constant flapping will wear the paint off where rope of shade material contacts the paint. But many people take precautions to work around it. If you can, shade cloth, especially Aluminet, is a great material that catches less wind, but still needs to consider the warnings above. For posts, just get 2x2 or 2x3 lumber at the Reno home despot and donate, burn or dispose on exit.
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:53 am

What car are we talking about? What works on a '67 Country Squire station wagon may not work on an '02 Smart.
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Navi_Keef » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:44 pm

some seeing eye wrote:I think if you search for "shade structure" and car, vehicle, etc. you will find this discussed.

The wind is capable of pulling the luggage rack off. Constant flapping will wear the paint off where rope of shade material contacts the paint. But many people take precautions to work around it. If you can, shade cloth, especially Aluminet, is a great material that catches less wind, but still needs to consider the warnings above. For posts, just get 2x2 or 2x3 lumber at the Reno home despot and donate, burn or dispose on exit.
actually most search results were discussion in reguards to costco and hf car ports being used as shade structures, trust me i searched a few minutes beforehand. not many detailed pictures of utilizing your car as part of your shade structure.

I dont have a roof rack and was going to put something tied down to my roof to prevent scratching and movement.
Captain Goddammit wrote:What car are we talking about? What works on a '67 Country Squire station wagon may not work on an '02 Smart.
I drive a hyundai accent hatchback but I really want to see them all in general for more ideas. Not really planning on having the whole tent completely shaded, more so of a focus for keeping the sun rise from beaming down too hard so i can sleep longer as well as maybe some covered storage for coolers between the tent and car. was thinking of using my car on the side of my tent and using suction cup window movers (http://www.harborfreight.com/dual-cup-s ... 46134.html) on my roof to tie down whatever i use as a shade cloth.

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by sadie » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:00 pm

I used some really strong magnets to help hold some aluminet to my van last year. It was also anchored to the ladder rack...but the magnets never moved. I got the bar magnets from HF that are meant to hold screwdrivers etc....HF also has some round magnets that are extremely strong...they will pinch the crap out of your fingers if you're not paying attention...
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:32 pm

With a vehicle that short and that low, I could only suggest setting up a 4 pole shade structure using the wheels as guy line anchor points for two of the poles.
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Navi_Keef » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:22 pm

some seeing eye wrote:With a vehicle that short and that low, I could only suggest setting up a 4 pole shade structure using the wheels as guy line anchor points for two of the poles.
haha I knew that someone would try and say this and that's why i was hesitant on posting on what my car was. I made this thread to see what others have done, to get ideas, not to get critiqued on what i want to do. but since there seems to be interest, this is my idea. My car is at about 4'8" high, i drew this pretty damn close to scale but did underestimate the height of my car. In this picture my car is drawn at 4' high and the tent is drawn at 6' high with 3' between the tent and the car and the poles being at 7'. drawing this up to scale definitely gave me more faith in my idea.

Image

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:08 pm

some seeing eye wrote:With a vehicle that short and that low, I could only suggest setting up a 4 pole shade structure using the wheels as guy line anchor points for two of the poles.
That's what I'd do. I don't see why a few extra poles wouldn't work a lot better than trying to use the car.
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:54 pm

Local building code for wind is
Risk Category I 120 mph - storage without human occupancy
Risk Category II 130 mph - residential and limited occupancy
Risk Category III 140 mph - substantial risk to human life
Risk Category IV 140 mph - essential facilities
There is a good argument that camping structures in the city street area are II-III.

Let's say that your tarp is 20x20'

Wind pressure = .00256 x Vwind^2 x 2 x Area = 40,140 pounds at Risk Category III.
If we assume it divides equally to four attachments, that is ~10,000 pounds per point.

That is why I wouldn't attach your tarp to your luggage rack, even though a whole series of other variables might be at play.

This is not engineering advice or advice of any kind and the reader is responsible for their own decisions and actions.
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by trilobyte » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:59 pm

Using a vehicle as part of a shade structure is usually something that's done when the vehicle is taller than the thing being shaded. It's basically serving as part of a lean-to, and gives you the benefit of being really sturdy (compared to a lightweight structure). However with a tent that's bigger/taller than the vehicle you're not going to find an easy solution, since you've got to build something that gets the shade material up and over the tent.

It may prove wiser to go with a less deluxe tent and more substantial shade. Kodiak tents are great and all, but it's a decidedly less deluxe experience without proper shade. Good luck!

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Major Krash » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:37 pm

if you have cargo racks on top (for bikes etc) these make excellent attachment points for plastic tubing to make a shade structure. Be careful where any tarp touches the vehicle - it can wear away the paint rather quickly. Have a spare key hidden somewhere. The vehicle should be in shade (otherwise it quickly becomes an oven). Take the bulbs out of the overhead, etc if the lights stay on when the doors are left open (to avoid a dead battery). Befriend & camp with others (who bring infrastructure) to make up for what you do not have.
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by DoctorIknow » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:48 am

some seeing eye wrote:With a vehicle that short and that low, I could only suggest setting up a 4 pole shade structure using the wheels as guy line anchor points for two of the poles.
I second that...as does Capt. Goddammit

Something like this? (awkwardly learning SketchUp)
car at bm-002.JPG
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Navi_Keef » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:02 am

so is it overall better and less likely to catch wind to have a flat top shade structure than at an angle?

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by DoctorIknow » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:57 am

Navi_Keef wrote:so is it overall better and less likely to catch wind to have a flat top shade structure than at an angle?
PLENTY of shade structures on the playa have flat tops.

Of vital importance is "side shade," at least one side: the East side facing the sunrise.

If no side shade, be prepared to awaken in a very hot tent about 8:45am.

Also, if you can, place your car to slow down the prevailing winds battering your tent. Sometimes they are actually prevailing and come from the SW...or not.

PLENTY of threads here about shade structures, but what I've found great for 15 burns is:
Four good eight foot 2x4's can work quite well if guyed properly, are light on your car, and can be burned.
Aluminet shade is expensive, nursery black shade ain't cheap either, and, I would never use tarps on this 2x4 rig.
For the guy ropes, two rolls of 3/8" x 100 foot multicolored "Diamond Braid" rope at Home Depot, Harbor Freight is fine. Go out 8' from the upright 2x4's and use 25' long pieces for each of the eight guy's.
Candy cane 18"-24" rebar or the newest playa sensation: lag screws for the guy ropes.
For attaching the shade on the top, I use 1/4" wire rope to avoid rope stretch (non-stretch rope at marine stores is super expensive)
Once the wire is attached to the tops of the 2x4's, pull the guy ropes as tight as possible, and check every day and retighten.
I use screw links (google it) to attach the shade cloth. Works great if you pull tight the outside ones with some paracord.
car at bm with shade.JPG
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Zubeneschamali » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:42 am

I'm just wondering how all this will fit in your car. Its got about 50 cu ft of storage?

Never come in a hatchback before. But I've built shit out there. Bring duct tape. Field Test. If you design in any metal or conduit support, bring a sawzall for ease of packing to go home.

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:09 am

I have used a 20x25 version of what Driknow shows. With nylon edge binding, the steel rope is not needed.

I would say that Aluminet is not expensive, is usable at home and has good resale value.

20x20 Aluminet costs $108-144 ($.27-.36/sf), black polyester shade cloth $44-88 ($.11-21/sf)
Binding the edge with nylon webbing and putting grommets every 5 feet is about $24 for either type shade cloth.
Aluminet compresses well in a duffel bag, 20x20 edge webbed will compress to a 36 inch long by about foot diameter duffel bag and is very lightweight.

At Burning Man you are building for a hurricane, same building code as Orlando, so just test your setup in a hurricane there.
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:41 pm

carshade.jpg
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:56 am

Zubeneschamali wrote:I'm just wondering how all this will fit in your car. Its got about 50 cu ft of storage?

Never come in a hatchback before. But I've built shit out there. Bring duct tape. Field Test.
If you design in any metal or conduit support, bring a sawzall for ease of packing to go home.
To cut the roof off the car?

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by burn_shady » Mon May 04, 2015 9:37 pm

Only slightly off topic... my first burn, we came out in a 4 door hatchback packed from bottom to top. We had everything we needed in there. However, when it came time to leave.... let's just say that if you've never folded a large tarp before, naive (though logical at the time) attempts to fold it will still have it occupy 4x or more space than it did in its original package. Lookup how truckers fold their tarps for good, practical explanations. Following those instructions, I can almost always get tarps back into the same size they were when I bought them.

(Also, +1 for just using the car as a fancy land anchor. I always tie the key parts of my camp to the car just to keep them from wandering too far should something go wrong while I'm out dong whatever it is people actually do at Burning Man.)

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Navi_Keef » Tue May 05, 2015 7:28 am

burn_shady wrote:Only slightly off topic... my first burn, we came out in a 4 door hatchback packed from bottom to top. We had everything we needed in there. However, when it came time to leave.... let's just say that if you've never folded a large tarp before, naive (though logical at the time) attempts to fold it will still have it occupy 4x or more space than it did in its original package. Lookup how truckers fold their tarps for good, practical explanations. Following those instructions, I can almost always get tarps back into the same size they were when I bought them.

(Also, +1 for just using the car as a fancy land anchor. I always tie the key parts of my camp to the car just to keep them from wandering too far should something go wrong while I'm out dong whatever it is people actually do at Burning Man.)

I plan on doing a test run or two to figure it all out and hopefully i will have plenty of room since one of the guys carpooling with me plans to have his stuff transported there by someone else.

But yes, i figure why not utilize my car as a raised anchor point. seems like a good idea, and of course i can use it for storage. I wonder if i will be able to use it as an oven or a stovetop :lol:

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by FIGJAM » Tue May 05, 2015 9:31 am

I've reheated plenty of meals on my dash!!! 8)
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by mudpuppy000 » Tue May 05, 2015 12:33 pm

Hah, I actually saw this installation in person out in Joshua Tree. :D
Lonesomebri wrote:
carshade.jpg

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by mudpuppy000 » Tue May 05, 2015 12:35 pm

Navi_Keef wrote:
burn_shady wrote:Only slightly off topic... my first burn, we came out in a 4 door hatchback packed from bottom to top. We had everything we needed in there. However, when it came time to leave.... let's just say that if you've never folded a large tarp before, naive (though logical at the time) attempts to fold it will still have it occupy 4x or more space than it did in its original package. Lookup how truckers fold their tarps for good, practical explanations. Following those instructions, I can almost always get tarps back into the same size they were when I bought them.

(Also, +1 for just using the car as a fancy land anchor. I always tie the key parts of my camp to the car just to keep them from wandering too far should something go wrong while I'm out dong whatever it is people actually do at Burning Man.)

I plan on doing a test run or two to figure it all out and hopefully i will have plenty of room since one of the guys carpooling with me plans to have his stuff transported there by someone else.

But yes, i figure why not utilize my car as a raised anchor point. seems like a good idea, and of course i can use it for storage. I wonder if i will be able to use it as an oven or a stovetop :lol:
One thing to consider is that you want to have the tarp/shade cloth under a lot of tension so it doesn't flap around in the wind or droop low and contact your tent. It's hard to do that with an odd shape like a car.

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Navi_Keef » Tue May 05, 2015 1:16 pm

mudpuppy000 wrote:

One thing to consider is that you want to have the tarp/shade cloth under a lot of tension so it doesn't flap around in the wind or droop low and contact your tent. It's hard to do that with an odd shape like a car.

I cant imagine it would be too difficult or anything honestly, like i said im going to do a test run out here first and get pro status at setting it all up. will probably end up with a couple of these to mount the back part of my roof rack so they should hold enough pretty easily
Image

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Roundabout » Tue May 05, 2015 11:16 pm

Navi_Keef wrote: I cant imagine it would be too difficult or anything honestly, like i said im going to do a test run out here first and get pro status at setting it all up. will probably end up with a couple of these to mount the back part of my roof rack so they should hold enough pretty easily
Image
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Ratty » Wed May 06, 2015 12:22 am

Navi don't waste too much money on those suction cups. With heat, cold, dust they are doomed. But you can boil a pouch of food between your windshield and your reflector inside the glass.
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed May 06, 2015 4:13 am

Those suction cups are meant for temporary use, usually lifting glass.
I think depending on them as a long term anchor is a bad idea.
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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Navi_Keef » Wed May 06, 2015 4:19 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:Those suction cups are meant for temporary use, usually lifting glass.
I think depending on them as a long term anchor is a bad idea.
Ratty wrote:Navi don't waste too much money on those suction cups. With heat, cold, dust they are doomed. But you can boil a pouch of food between your windshield and your reflector inside the glass.
.
only $5 from harbor freight. im not really worried about it. ive used them before and have seen them used for roof racks which is how mine will be connected. so someone has already done it, im not really worried about it.

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Re: Using your car part of your shade structure

Post by Bin Noddin » Sat May 09, 2015 8:46 pm

Ugly, but it worked for me. Used 2 x 4s and EMT to make a frame, attached to the roof rack with zipties. The two vertical posts are taped to rebars pounded straight into the ground, so nothing to bark your shins on. The other side of the aluminet was down to the ground, held in place by heavy-duty tent pegs. Slept in the van. This setup kept it nice and cool.
Shelter 1.jpg
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