Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

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sparr
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Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by sparr » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:13 pm

Rumor has it that the playa is pretty cool a few feet (or more) down. Definitely a lot cooler than ambient air in the afternoon. Some houses use underground pipes to heat in the winter and cool in the summer. Has anything like that been tried at BM? I've seen pictures of DPW and some individuals using trenchers to go down a couple of feet for conduits and cables. I've read that big holes in the playa are a safety hazard when they erode back out in the future. I'm curious what the biggest "acceptable"/"safe" hole or trench would be for cooling purposes, and how effective using it would be. I know it wouldn't be as effective as a swamp cooler, but I'm still brainstorming and asking about things i can't find any old discussion about.
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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by Sham » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:20 pm

None! You can dig absolutely no holes in the playa. Others may have a mission or permission, but you don't--and you never will.

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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by digital » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:30 pm

sparr wrote:Rumor has it that the playa is pretty cool a few feet (or more) down.
Don't even think about it! Digging that is.

With a yurt, however, the natural cooling effect of the floor keeps the ambient temperature low inside. Best to have a swamp cooler as well.
Last edited by digital on Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by Elderberry » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:36 pm

Actually, you'll be surprised how cool the floor of your yurt is after kept it out of the sun for a day or so. Just don't put any heavy carpeting down as it blocks the cooling effect.
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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by Tiahaar » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:49 pm

well you all know 6" x 2 feet deep augured holes are allowed for posts (though discouraged and needing proper backfilling per the guide) but you would need quite an array of them to get enough geothermal cooling...not worth the trouble. an interesting mental exercise though.
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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by tamarakay » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:25 pm

If I were staying out there long term perhaps I'd care more. But since the most precious commodity on the playa is time, this is not how I would want to spend it.
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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by Roundabout » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:00 am

You have been a member of ePlaya for 10 days and have originated 11 threads. Your only posts are on threads you yourself have originated. Hmmmm, Spar is thinking... "What thread can I start today." A little too self-absorbed maybe?... Chill for a while dude. You are going to make it OK. I know you will.
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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by GreyCoyote » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:21 am

Roundabout wrote:You have been a member of ePlaya for 10 days and have originated 11 threads. Your only posts are on threads you yourself have originated. Hmmmm, Spar is thinking... "What thread can I start today." A little too self-absorbed maybe?... Chill for a while dude. You are going to make it OK. I know you will.
How very un-christian of you, Roundabout. They laughed at Einstein, too. (Of course, history proved him right, but I digress...)

This is a kinder, gentler eplaya now, so on that note, lets address Sparr's very latest, and oh-so-meritorious post in a light most conducive to brotherly love and selfless informational sacrifice.

When it comes to trench safety, this is indeed a very serious subject, and the stakes are high on the playa. With 75,000 drunken hippies running around, there are no chances for a "do-over" when something fails, and the OSHA regs do apply on the playa. Further, since this will be on federal land, Sparr is going to need permits, and to get these he will need an engineer on board, get an environmental impact study done, and of course a geological study.

The OSHA regs are freely available from the US Dept of Labor. You can access them here: https://www.osha.gov/law-regs.html
The EPA has come good guidance when it comes to the EIS, and you can access them here: http://www2.epa.gov/laws-regulations/regulations
Note that with regards to federal lands, there are additional permits you will need, and these are available from the US Dept Of The Interior: http://www.doi.gov/index.cfm

If you need help with "boots-on-the-ground" issues involving coring, drilling, trenching or just about anything of that nature, I suggest you shoot an email out to our very own ^Rhino. He's the guy when it comes to anything earthy, rocky, or subterranean. I will also let him speak to the "viability" portion of your post, as my knowledge base doesn't include such things and its always better to have practical experience in that particular area on your side.

Please make sure to "like" this post if you find these answers meet your needs.
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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by sparr » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:09 am

Tiahaar wrote:6" x 2 feet deep augured holes are allowed for posts (though discouraged and needing proper backfilling per the guide)
Thanks. I apparently missed the entire "lesser known" LNT section of the guide. You're right, that size of hole wouldn't accomplish much.

I know people drive stakes deeper than that, not leaving wide holes behind. I wonder if I could put 4 narrow tubes (5/16"?) in a wide tube (1"?), and then drive the wide tube down like a stake...
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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:15 am

The buried BMORG power grid cables are able to carry more power because they heat up less. But as others have said, cooling a structure at the event will not work because you cannot dig enough to make it work thermodynamically. Unless you are ein Hammer. They dialed that shit.

But in your home at home you could research ground source heat pumps, very efficient.
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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by ygmir » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:57 pm

you may want to see if Kvon is still around, and or check the thread "Power to the playa" and or the old "Ein Hammer" thread. That German crew supposedly bored or dug a trench around all or part of the city some years ago. Not sure if the stuff is still there, or, if they might have temperature info and the like.
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Re: Geothermal cooling, trench/hole safety, viability?

Post by Tiahaar » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:56 am

shhhhh! those tunnels are top secret
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