I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

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Ohnoes
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I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by Ohnoes » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:40 pm

Hi everyone. This is my first time making a Monkey Hut and I screwed up. I'm a little befuddled, and my burner buds live 50 mi away. eep. I've googled, read this forum and reddit and still at a loss. I made the love monkey hut http://www.chromatest.net/Lovemonkey/.
The monkeyhut footprint is 10x12, with a 10x20 tarp. The spine has qty 3 sections at 5" a piece from 1.5in pvc, while the ribs are qty 6 at 1.25 pvc.

problem with the design:
The center spine (the X joint) sags down.
IMG_0586.jpg
IMG_0584.jpg
problem with the size:
Purchased too big a tent for current design.
I thought my 9x8 ft tent would fit perfectly in a 10x12 footprint. Looks like a no! The tent is too tall, and I needed to move it out to a 12x15" foot.
The 4 person Kodiak I got: http://amzn.to/1DlS6Ii. The dimensions are: 9x8 feet, up to 6'1" high. I'm pretty small, so likely will extend it to only 5'10" high.
During the reading up in these boards realized, that you don't want your structure flush with the tent. It needs a space for the sun to creep in, or a shade flap.

The only solution I came up with, was to extend the hut with another set of ribs (the long 10ft pieces) and add a coupling (1 1/4 diameter, 2in long), to add on a 2ft piece to each of the now qty 8 ribs. Is this more work than it's worth? Is there something smarter?
new MH design.jpg
So here's what I'm asking help on, :oops:
What size tarp or aluminet do I get for a 12x15ft shade structure?
How do I fix the center x piece that's falling out?
Is adding another x piece going to stress the design?



Thank you!
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TT120
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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by TT120 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:51 pm

Did you use schedule 40 PVC?

Schedule 40 has thicker walls than the regular white PVC the landscapers use for your sprinkler system and will not sag.

If you move the rebar in to 11 feet instead of 12, that will make it higher in the center.
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Ohnoes
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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by Ohnoes » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:41 pm

I used schedule 40 on all the bits. I tried moving the stakes in, and 11 was still too low.

Do you think this will work? Or askin for "break stuff time" out there...
new MH design (1).jpg
Would the math on the new tarp size be Pythagorean theorem? At a loss.
IMG_0592.jpg
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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by Popeye » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:07 pm

The tarp size is the length of the ribs by the length of the spine. Just because you bend the ribs into a semicircle does not make them longer or shorter. Note however that tarps are sold by "unfinished size". In other words if a tarp is advertised as 10'x16' it is probably a lot closer to 9'6"x 15'6" after the factory hem is put in.
It sounds like you are more worried about clearance between the tent and the MH frame. While the frame is actually closer to a parabola the math for this is a total PITA. For this size you can assume a semicircle and come pretty close then adjust slightly if needed.
If you are using 20' ribs then the Circumference is 40' and the radius (from the ground to the peak of the MH) is R=40/2Pi= 6.37'. The tent will just clear in the center but not on the edge.
A 30' rib will give you about 9 1/2' radius and about 4 1/2' each side of the tent for guy lines.
Play with the formula until you get dimensions that work for you. Then do a practice build and adjust.Bring the rib ends closer together to make it more parabolic and less space between the tent and the MH and taller.

As far as the sag goes, are all the ribs the same length?, Is the structure square? Measured square, not eyeballed?
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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by tamarakay » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:21 am

Yes, square is important. Line those puppies up and I bet it doesn't sag.
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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by inventory » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:58 pm

WALL OF TEXT follows. Sorry. Hopefully it's a wall of text that helps you or someone else.

Don't panic! It's likely fixable without too much redesign or additional supplies.

1. Sag!
Sag isn't really a problem as long as the hut clears your tent and everything stays connected. But there are some common sources with easy checks.

1.A. Do the two spine pieces fit loosely in the X connector or does it take a teeny bit of effort to pull them out? If loose, take some duct tape and wrap it around the ends of the spines. You're trying to get juuuuust enough wraps that you can still get them connected if you push, but all the extra space is filled up.

1.B. If you look at the picture, the middle arch of the ribs is flatter at the top than the outer arches. Is the sleeve connecting these two ribs longer than the other sleeves? They all need to be the same length - and centered - for the rib arches to all have the same shape. Longer sleeve = flatter top = lower center height on that one rib.

1.C. Sag like you have can also happen quite easily once there is already a (non-symmetric) curve bent into your PVC. Try taking each of the center rib pieces out one at a time and turning them around so the end that's near the ground is now at the spine.

1.D. To keep everything connected, I use a rope or some ratchet straps. After the PVC is up but before I put the tarps on, I either take a long piece of rope (not paracord if you can help it, something less stretchy) and run it next to the spine on one side, tying clove hitches around each rib to snug it close into the connectors OR I do the same thing with ratchet straps. With ratchet straps usually they will do a 5" length of spine so I run a loop around each two neighbor ribs, alternating what side of the spine I'm on. When you do this, it will also tend to straighten out your spine as long as you don't over-tighten.

All of this should fix your sag enough.


2. Dimensions!

2.A. I have a nerdy spreadsheet I made that calculates the ellipticals. If you bring the width of the monkey hut in to 11', your center height is 7'2". At 10.5' it's 7'4". And at 10', your center height is 7'7". I believe, based on looking at that tent you linked, that at a width of 10' you should just clear the corners of the tent. At an elevation of 5'10", the ribs of the 10' wide hut each come in by ~1'9" leaving a width of 6'6". If you set up your tent poles and measure across the top pole & connectors, is it less than this? If so, it'll fit - you don't need feet of clearance in every single edge of the tent, just healthy air gaps at top and sides.

2.B. If the tent's top is wider than this, or for some reason you want more room in the hut, the general diameter expansion method you proposed (lengthening the ribs) will work fine to get you extra height & width, and is the most efficient way to do it. However, don't do it by putting (2) 2' extensions on the edge of the ribs! Either put (1) extension in the center (you can shorten the center sleeve if you go this route since there won't be a join under it) OR make your extensions at least 3' longer than the top of your rebar and also shorten the ribs you have now to get the total rib length you want. The reason is that you don't want a sleeved joint too close to your rebar or you have a tendency to break the sleeve at the join.

2.B.i. If you extend the diameter of the hut (length of the ribs) then as Jovankat said, one dimension of your tarp is just the total length of one rib arch. For example, 2 pieces of 10' PVC => 20' on one edge of your tarp. 2 pieces of 4' + 2 pieces of 8' => 24' tarp edge. The other dimension of your tarp is governed by length below.

2.B.ii. However, nobody says your tarp has to go all the way to the ground. It's a little more dusty, and you need to have faith in your guy lines since there will be more uplift on the hut -- but if you don't have the money to buy another huge tarp then the one you've got is just fine!

2.C. For length - yeah, you'll possibly want a longer hut since your tent is 8' deep and the sun comes in from the side a lot. :) No worries there - just extend length exactly as you showed in your drawing, with more connectors, more spine, and more ribs. Personally I like to have a length that's at least twice my tent depth and then I put the tent about 2/3 of the way down it so I have a shady "front porch" to sit in.

2.C.i. The second dimension of your tarp is the total length of all your spine sections (aka the length of the monkey hut). 2 pieces of 5' PVC => 10' long. 4 pieces of 5' PVC => 20' long.

2.C.ii. BUT you will have a very convenient rib right where your current tarp ends. And you can still use your current tarp and just buy a new tarp for the part you added on.


So in summary, if it were me (making some assumptions about what you want to spend to fix this)
- check sag
- measure top of tent: less than 6'6" wide?
- if yes, re-pitch monkey hut at 10' wide and try tent under it now
- if no, make 4' extensions for current ribs and cut existing down to 8' [alternately, if you have the cash, I'd go with (4) 6' sections so it's all the same part]
- decide on desired length: I recommend 20'
- if you do 20' I personally would just buy one more 10' x ~20'-24' tarp; install both (use the shorter tarp for the section over your tent, if one is shorter); and live with the gap.

inventory
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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by inventory » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:23 pm

Just re-read to check and noticed two things:

- How long are the sleeves that connect each pair of ribs? They look pretty long on your hut - are they 2.5 feet as in the original lovemonkey hut? You can safely shorten them to 1.5 feet and gain a lot of loft that way.

- When I first read your plan for extending the rib arch length I read it as "2 ft couplers". I now see you wrote "2in". In case that wasn't a typo, the couplers should also be 1.5 feet or so - 2 inches will result in your joins slipping loose under the first good wind gust.

Let us know about your progress! Good luck!

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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by maladroit » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:27 pm

I wouldn't use X connectors for anything...much much simpler to slide the spine and rib pieces into larger pieces of pipe (2 feet is enough) and then lash the X intersections together with rope or cut up bicycle inner tubes. Basically, if you had 20 or 30 foot single pieces of pipe your job would be easier, so you should try to make that happen in as easy, strong, and transportable way as possible. Any design relying on a friction fit into 1-2 inches of PVC connector will be a bit scary. A monkeyhut can be made with no connectors at all, though a T connector (with glued-in 1 foot sleeve for the spine) is pretty nice for the ends of the hut.

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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by Bounce530 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:51 pm

When I was using a monkey hut, after the ribs, and spine where all together, I'd draw the ribs inward with a ratchet strap. I'd also run a screw into each of the joints. I don't know if that actually helped any thing of not, but I never had an issue with any of my huts.
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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by Ohnoes » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:55 pm

THANK YOU all for the thoughtful responses. I'm so happy to have made it this far in the prep process.

First. I made a big ol mistake. I double checked the ribs PVC size, and it was 3/4 in instead of 1 in diameter. Boy do I feel like a bonehead. It explains a ton of the sag.
I redid the MH with the proper materials, and made the footprint 10 x 15, (after @Inventory's suggestion!!), and extending +1 rib.

It DOES clear the corners of the tent, mind you a bit snug to get in/out of because of the placement of the doors on the tent being on the 9 foot part of the 9x8 dims. Which I'm all good with, shade is shade. Just ordered a 15 x 20 ft tarp!

Lesson learned? Don't use willcall at HomeDepot and expect what you actually ordered. Thought I was saving time, and honestly...pretty intimidated with HomeDepot. Not anymore.
IMG_0656.jpg

Thank you so much.
I'm on build and LNT. This will make a huge difference.
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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by inventory » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:04 am

YAAAAAAY!!!! So happy for you!

(Wondering now if the tent still fits turned the other way - it would completely block the hut, but you'd have an easier time getting in the door, and could store stuff behind the tent. Anyway. Possible future experiment.)

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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by Ohnoes » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:42 am

The pic looks a little wider, it's pretty snug that way. It would rub against the tent the other direction..eep!
After what you said about the extensions snapping (I made a few from 2ft extensions, glued them with PVC glue before I saw your message), I'll save the modifications for another year.
I'm so relieved it's all up. The tarp arrives tomorrow and I'mma' bungee that sucker down! See you on the Playa!! :wink:

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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by lvictory23 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:21 am

Ohnoes wrote:The pic looks a little wider, it's pretty snug that way. It would rub against the tent the other direction..eep!
After what you said about the extensions snapping (I made a few from 2ft extensions, glued them with PVC glue before I saw your message), I'll save the modifications for another year.
I'm so relieved it's all up. The tarp arrives tomorrow and I'mma' bungee that sucker down! See you on the Playa!! :wink:
You could try turning it the other way and cut pool noodles to go over the edge of the top of the tent where it would rub... just an idea. The year I had mine under a monkey hut I put tennis balls over the end prices that touched the monkey hut. Worked great.
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Re: I need an adult: A screwed up Monkey hut story.

Post by EGAZ » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:28 am

You do realize this is a two year old post........ LOL

Not that I've ever done it..... No,..... Never...... :mrgreen:
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
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