Monkey hut frame help

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
User avatar
ZigZag
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:21 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Fade to White
Location: Minnesota

Monkey hut frame help

Post by ZigZag » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:05 pm

I stated testing my Monkey hut frame using a design I saw here on ePlaya.

The ribs are planned to be made of a 25 foot 1" PVC which is made of 2 10' pieces connected in the middle by a 5' piece using "T" connectors (on the end ribs) and "X" connectors in the middle so I can run two spines.

So I set up to erect the first rib and as I was pulling it into an arc, the connector blew out (and nearly broke a window). Ugh.

I know people have used these connectors before and I didn't think I had to glue them but if this happens on the playa, I'm sunk, Can;t exactly run off to Home Depot for more!

I realize you just hate to give your opinions here but if you would, it might help! :)

ZigZag1.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

User avatar
lucky420
Posts: 8756
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:47 am
Burning Since: 2021
Camp Name: Dye with Dignity
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by lucky420 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:46 pm

I always bring an extra connecTor or 2 for times like that ^. I've never had one break on me like that though.

Sorry I'm not much help. Someone wiser than me should be by before long...
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 3172
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Apr 23, 2016 5:45 pm

The playa is a harsh mistress. T and X PVC pipe connectors are not designed for torque forces.

Based on my experience I suggest full length 20' arch sections. Bent over your vehicle front bumper to over the back roof or bumper on a sedan, they start getting a bend and if assembled on playa, they are going to be more flexible in heat. But if you need 25, cannot do 20.

My successful experience was the for spine connections to be coupled rib-spine by tiewraps or duct tape. That has flex.

Many others report experience to join pieces to make arches from smaller lengths for transport, sleeving larger diameter PVC over lesser, for longer than the 2" of a T or X, works better - 2 foot long sleeve connector - check them for length.

Others have perhaps successfully done your X & T design. But that was at the edge of the capability of the X & T based on the temperature-dependent flex and the prebend of the torque arching rib pipes.

I have redeployed my 20 foot arches into sprinkler and underground wiring. Used PVC may sometimes be disposed of on Craigs. Maybe there should be a special collection for reuse point outbound in Reno or SF? Playafied PVC for burial in soil economic value is basicly donation-only.

IMO

There are plenty more MHut experts here who can weigh in with their helpful experience. Good for starting early on your camp setup. Soon, you will be an expert and helping others here!
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
DhammaSeeker
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 5:26 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Pretty Pickle
Location: Denver CO
Contact:

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by DhammaSeeker » Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:29 pm

I'm not familiar with your two spine construction plan, but I've had a Galaxy Hut on playa since 2012, and it's been wonderful. It weathered the insane winds Saturday pre-event last year like a champ.

http://galaxybeing.com/galaxyhut/

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5870
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by BBadger » Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:59 pm

Maybe the photo was adjusted to show just the connector, but did you put the entire 2.5', 1 1/4" sleeve entirely through the connector? The sleeve is supposed to take the bulk of the stress caused by the ribs. The connectors should not be feeling much stress at all.

You only need to wrap some duct tape in the middle of the sleeve to make the connector stay in the center as depicted below. No glue. Also, put a little bit of duct tape on the ribs themselves where they meet the end of the sleeves so that they fit snugly in the sleeve (not depicted below). The duct tape also provides a bit of shock protection for the PVC. I also put pieces of hose on the rebar on the bottom to protect the PVC from damage.

Here's the main guide on how to build the Monkey Huts.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

mcgyver2k
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:42 am
Burning Since: 2014

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by mcgyver2k » Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:44 am

I didnt use any of those connectors in 2014. Just sections of 1" pipe connected with 1 1/4" sleeves and duct tape.

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5870
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by BBadger » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:34 am

mcgyver2k wrote:I didnt use any of those connectors in 2014. Just sections of 1" pipe connected with 1 1/4" sleeves and duct tape.
That works too. Some people use bungee cord or even better, (old) bicycle inner tubes. They help reduce the strain and shock to the PVC. Makes the pipes more stackable too without those bulky connectors.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
ZigZag
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:21 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Fade to White
Location: Minnesota

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ZigZag » Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:27 am

Not using connectors seems like a good idea. Perhaps I made it too complicated which would be typical for me.

This isn't a big game of Tinker Toys!

Back to Home Depot!
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5870
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by BBadger » Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:45 am

The connectors still should not have broken.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
Popeye
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:39 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Beaverton
Location: Where the east wind blows

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by Popeye » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:02 am

You could try using schedule 80 PVC (grey to grey black) couplings and crosses instead of the white schedule 40. You will probably need to go to a plumbing supply store rather than Lowes but they are thicker walled and a lot stronger.
“Tell me, what is it you plan to do / with your one wild and precious life?” Mary Oliver

User avatar
ACfromSAC
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:14 pm
Burning Since: 2022
Camp Name: SLAYER!

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ACfromSAC » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:39 am

I just overlap about 18" of the center spine piece into the two side rib pieces, sleeve style. I forget the exact dimensions of PVC I use, I believe 2" for the side ribs and 1.5" for the center piece. 18" up from both ends of the center rib, I have about 1/2" thick layer of duct tape wrapped tightly around the PVC pipe to act as a stop point for when I feed it into the two side ribs. I also wrap a single layer of duct tape from the "stop" ring to the end of the PVC to prevent squeaking and to hold a bit tighter because of the additional friction of the tape vs. PVC surface. It works like a charm. Super easy to assemble (just slide the pieces together), no worries about anything slipping out of a small coupler piece and no breakage of small pieces.

User avatar
ZigZag
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:21 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Fade to White
Location: Minnesota

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ZigZag » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:34 pm

ACfromSAC:
So you are talking about how you "splice: the two ribs together to make the entire arc with an 18" piece of a larger diameter. You use a thick layer of tape as a stop on one rib piece and a thinner one on the other to firm it all up.

But how are you joining the ribs together down the length of the hut? BBadger suggested putting a larger T or X connector over that splice piece. Others implied they don't use connectors, they just run a pipe down the length and tape or bungee it to the joined ribs.

What do you do?
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

User avatar
Jackass
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: way out in left field

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by Jackass » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:52 pm

If you just follow monkeylove's original design, you can't go wrong. Thousands have been built following that recipe, but some folks like to throw in some of their own "spices".
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

11th Principle: Depussyfication - Keeping Burning Man potentially lethal. Token

User avatar
ACfromSAC
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:14 pm
Burning Since: 2022
Camp Name: SLAYER!

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ACfromSAC » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:17 pm

ZigZag wrote:ACfromSAC:
So you are talking about how you "splice: the two ribs together to make the entire arc with an 18" piece of a larger diameter. You use a thick layer of tape as a stop on one rib piece and a thinner one on the other to firm it all up.

But how are you joining the ribs together down the length of the hut? BBadger suggested putting a larger T or X connector over that splice piece. Others implied they don't use connectors, they just run a pipe down the length and tape or bungee it to the joined ribs.

What do you do?
Two words: DUCT TAPE

More specifically, Gorilla Tape. It's strong as shit and holds tight all week. I tape a length of PVC at the top center point of the hut and and another about halfway down the ribs on either side. I also use two upright pieces of PVC at the front and two at the back of the hut, set atop pieces of rebar and taped to the hut and tension the guy wire from the point where the uprights meet the hut. Super easy to assemble, no additional parts necessary other than the PVC (well... rebar duct tape and guy wire of course).

Pic below for reference (disclaimer: back then I unnecessarily had an extra row of joining ribs).
Image

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 16901
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by trilobyte » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:29 pm

Personally, I don't build monkey huts (though I've done a few different PVC structures on/off the playa over the years) - my shade of choice is EMT conduit frame structures with galvanized steel fittings. But monkey huts work well for lots of people, they come very highly recommended.

PVC connectors don't usually break when they're new. As they age, or with exposure to sunlight and other playa conditions they can sometimes get brittle and fail. It's possible you got one that's been sitting in the bin a while, or through random (bad) luck got a bad one. I highly recommend the same as others have suggested - bring spares. You may also want to bring a roll of duct tape, that's good multi-purpose stuff you can use to rig solutions to all kinds of random problems you may run into (just remember to keep the roll of duct tape out of the sun).

Good luck!

User avatar
Jackass
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:25 pm
Location: way out in left field

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by Jackass » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:03 pm

Tight as a drum....V15.0', billboard vinyl, original flavor Lovemonkey hut
bm 2010 prep 002.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

11th Principle: Depussyfication - Keeping Burning Man potentially lethal. Token

Capinator
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:54 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: SpaceHole

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by Capinator » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:37 pm

Main thing - and mentioned in prior posts - is using the fact that 1-1/4 pvc fits nicely over 1" pvc. We use 1-1/4 fitting, glue in a 6" piece of 1-1/4 - this makes extended and stronger fittings less likely to slip out and/or break. On playa we insert the 1" and then screw them together (predrill everything off playa). Could also tape.

User avatar
ZigZag
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:21 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Fade to White
Location: Minnesota

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ZigZag » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:13 pm

Thanks Capinator!
That's what I tried yesterday. I'd read in another thread about how you could loop a piece of paracord through the 6" 1 1/4" connector and tie the ends together. Then slide the connector over the ends of the 1" rib tubes. It makes it a perfect tight fit.

I managed to get a test rib built and put up yesterday and it worked like a champ. So excited. :) :!:

Speaking of which I got my attic foil order in the mail yesterday too and the 6" tape. I'm hoping to make the tarp this coming weekend. Still trying to figure out the best way to tape the strips together and keep everything straight.

Progress! :coffee:
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

Capinator
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:54 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: SpaceHole

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by Capinator » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:21 am

Taping - you will need some space and at least two friends. Cut pieces to length, stretch them out side by side. then tape the seam with the bi-filament tape in one go. You can walk on the attic foil and it won't mind. If you can walk on it in socks it is better. Turn the foil over and put aluminum tape on the other side of the seam to protect the bi-filament tape from the sun.

It is extremely preferable to do this inside if at all possible. Outside, the wind and sun are your enemies. Wind is obvious. The sun - you will be very surprised at how hot it is to work on top of the attic foil because it reflects 96% of the sunlight back at you. Wear sunscreen if you are outside or you will regret it!

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10235
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:17 am

Upside down monkey hut solar oven for a pig roast???
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
ZigZag
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:21 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Fade to White
Location: Minnesota

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ZigZag » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:38 pm

Fortunately I can do this inside so no roasting of this pig in the solar oven!

I can do this in the parking ramp where I work, its always empty on the weekends. I'll sweep up the area I need.

Now, I need two friends. Hmmm. :roll:
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

User avatar
Roundabout
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:41 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Playa Choir
Location: Ridgway, CO

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by Roundabout » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:00 pm

ZigZag wrote:I can do this in the parking ramp where I work, its always empty on the weekends. I'll sweep up the area I need.
ZigZag,
Be sure to sweep up thoroughly. Once you start walking on the atticfoil on top of concrete, the tiniest grain of sand will imbed on the underside of the foil. It's not a big deal, but it does create unnecessary wear and tear on the material. It's plenty strong material, but it's at its weak point when being walked on over a hard surface.
Every aspect of life is education. Even if you don't immediately grasp the lesson. robbidobbs

User avatar
ZigZag
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:21 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Fade to White
Location: Minnesota

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ZigZag » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:41 pm

Oh wow, I didn't think of that. Thank you.

I wonder if maybe I could do this in one of the yoga studios where I practice??? No one even wears shoes in there. Smooth clean floors, big spaces. Hmmmm.

You sparked an idea.

I love E-Playa, so many smart people!

Thanks!!!
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

User avatar
ZigZag
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:21 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Fade to White
Location: Minnesota

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ZigZag » Sun May 01, 2016 6:36 pm

Big progress! We finally had a nice day so I got the hut frame all cut and did a full assembly. No real problems other than my step stool toppling over because of a mole tunnel.

Dang varmints! Probably none of those on the playa!

I even set my tent up for the first time to see how it was going to fit.

Won't get to the canopy until next weekend. Making progress though!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

User avatar
EGAZ
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:44 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Camp2 -Doin' What We Do!!
Location: Arizona
Contact:

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by EGAZ » Sun May 01, 2016 6:52 pm

I think you need to rotate your tent. :?

But I've been wrong before..... Looks good though.
2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!, 8) Gotta beer?

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!' :P

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5870
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by BBadger » Mon May 02, 2016 3:11 am

Are you sure those 6-8" connectors connecting those ribs together are long enough? You can't count on the Monkey Hut holding that shape. It'll bend and stress those joints, possibly snapping the same way as your T-connector did. Part of the reason for the length of those 2.5ft, 1 1/4" PVC sheaths is that they prevent tight bending at that stress point. You should probably have a connector that is at least 1.5ft long.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
ZigZag
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:21 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Fade to White
Location: Minnesota

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ZigZag » Mon May 02, 2016 6:54 am

Badger: Thanks for questioning this. I may have under-engineered things a little.

I based these connectors on a thread by burn-shady about Threaded Monkey Huts (viewtopic.php?t=70302) where he was using 5, 5' sections and connecting them in two ways. 1 is a 6", 1 1/4"connector tube with a length of paracord looped through it. It makes them fit real tight. The other is a rope that runs inside the tube from rebar to rebar that is pulled tight. That internal connector is on every other rib.

Where Burn Shady needed to use 5' sections to make the hut fit in his car, I am driving a van so I have two 10' sections with a 5 footer in the middle.

The paracord loop makes the connector fit tight, in fact I used 5" connectors because its so tight I can't get a 6 inch connector all the way on it is so tight. I was also afraid if I had 18" connectors (obviously without the paracord) it would be hard to bend the rib.

The other worry I had was that in putting this up, I had a real hard time getting the 1 1/4" spine pieces to seat all the way into the X connectors. Once one end was in, I could not twist it to put in the other end so I don't feel like they are fully seated. That's a point of failure I don;t know how to fix.

I am trying to make this workable so that I can set this whole thing up by myself since I am camping solo. Am i headed for trouble? Sort of seems like it.
If I use 18" connectors do I use duct tape to make them stay in place? Will they bend enough? I value yours and everyone elses opinion. I really do.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5870
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by BBadger » Tue May 03, 2016 2:28 pm

I didn't use the paracord method for making the pipes fit snugly. I used the duct tape method from LoveMonkey's guide, which seems to give better control over how snug the end-pieces fit into each other. The duct tape is only wrapped at the location on the rib where it touches the end of the sleeve; that makes it easy to fit the rib down the sleeve. The paracord being all the way down the pipe makes it a pain to push the rib down the pipe as you observed. On the spine, the ends of the 2.5' sections were wrapped with enough duct tape to fit nicely into the X and T connectors.

If you're using the old inner-tube/paracord method of connecting the spine to the ribs, you don't even need the T or X connectors. Maybe the T-connectors would be fine to give you some end-caps. You can just use a long section of 1 1/4" pipe and directly bind it to that.

Also, do you need the monkey hut to be enlarged from its 2x10' half-diameter in your case? Burn-shady was trying to fit the monkeyhut into a car where the 10ft spans were too long. If you're able to transport 10' pipes you don't need another 5ft section in the middle unless you just want a taller/wider monkeyhut. If you can stick to 2x10' you can just use 2.5' sleeves in the middle and avoid extra joints.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
ZigZag
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 5:21 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Fade to White
Location: Minnesota

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by ZigZag » Tue May 03, 2016 6:09 pm

Much to stew on here.

I am going to try several of the things you are suggesting though probably not until this weekend.

The reason I added the 5 foot section was that according to my calculations was a 20 foot circumference was going to give me a 6.25 foot radius. I have a Kodiak tent with a 6'6" ceiling height. That's not going to fit very well. If I tighten up the base to make the shape a bit more ovalish, I won't even have room to get by it. It just seemed too tight overall for any good ventilation

I was watching part of that new release of "24 hours of Burning Man 2015" this morning and it was showing some of the big blow that came through I guess on the Friday or Saturday before the gate opened. It gave me a new appreciation about how rugged this thing has to be.

Thanks for the awesome reply. Film at 11
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

User avatar
lucky420
Posts: 8756
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:47 am
Burning Since: 2021
Camp Name: Dye with Dignity
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Monkey hut frame help

Post by lucky420 » Tue May 03, 2016 6:32 pm

I don't use para cord in between the ribs up top. I use big bungee cords and duct tape too
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

Post Reply

Return to “Building Camps & Villages”