Advice for spotting scam camps?

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sparr
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by sparr » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:12 am

FlyingMonkey wrote:While too late for this year, it's always best to camp with people you know & have developed a relationship with. I'm pretty sure you go to regionals so next year do some shopping. Find a camp that you really think fits you, meet the folks that run it, & see if they are accepting any new campers. Better yet scout one out before the regional & take them for a test drive before the burn.
Thank you for the advice. I do attend many regionals, and frequently camp with long time friends at them. However, most of those people, and almost all of those camps, don't go to Burning Man. Out of perhaps 25 times I've been to a regional burn, every time with a theme camp of more than trivial size, I've only once camped with a camp that has a presence on playa, and that only for one year. I'm not sure if finding the right BM camp is a worthwhile motivator to me to make different choices in my regional camps. I could definitely do that, but that would mean camping with my friends less often :(

PS: I think there's a culture divide here. Most of the people on this forum seem to be from the Mountain or Pacific time zones, and it feels like 90% of the people at regional events and pre/de-compression events here go to BM. I'm mostly from the east coast, where <10% of the people at a regional burn or pre/de-compression event go to BM.
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by FlyingMonkey » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:17 am

sparr wrote: I'm not sure if finding the right BM camp is a worthwhile motivator to me to make different choices in my regional camps. I could definitely do that, but that would mean camping with my friends less often :(
That would mean camping with your new friends more often. You don't have a friend quota do you??? But I see your point.
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by mudpuppy000 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:22 am

It gets tricky when you're looking for a camp to get involved in at both a regional and burning man. Only a few of my campmates live in my area so we end up merging with other camps at our regionals, but join our main camp in BRC. Ideally you'd want to look for a camp in your local area that you click with, then it's more likely you could be involved in projects leading up to a regional and BRC.

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sparr
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by sparr » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:35 am

mudpuppy000 wrote:Ideally you'd want to look for a camp in your local area that you click with, then it's more likely you could be involved in projects leading up to a regional and BRC.
I already have camp(s) full of friends that I click with at Alchemy, Euphoria, Firefly, NECTR, Lakes of Fire, Youtopia, Transformus, Serendipity, etc. But none of those camps go to BRC (except one, once).
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by FlyingMonkey » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:01 am

sparr wrote:
mudpuppy000 wrote:Ideally you'd want to look for a camp in your local area that you click with, then it's more likely you could be involved in projects leading up to a regional and BRC.
I already have camp(s) full of friends that I click with at Alchemy, Euphoria, Firefly, NECTR, Lakes of Fire, Youtopia, Transformus, Serendipity, etc. But none of those camps go to BRC (except one, once).
Maybe you need your regional camp mates & also your Burning Man Camp mates. But I know that many individuals & some camps at Lakes of Fire go to the Playa. Off the top of my head Videogasm & Thumper. But that may not be what your looking for. It's all about meeting new people & creating contacts like roots on a tree. The more people you know the more likely you are to find your ideal camp.

So Sparrs Zorb Bowling Ally isn't going to happen? Bummer dude.
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:12 am

Sparr, I think what it comes down to, if you want to be part of a badass camp with cool projects going on and for whatever reason you're not finding the group that you click with, it's time for you to start your own camp.

No one is just going to come along and build your sweet, amazing camp just the way you want it, and based on the way you've portrayed yourself on this board, I think your a guy who wants things done a certain way. Not a problem with that, I am also a guy who wants things done a certain way, so what I did was start organizing theme camps. I realized that no one was gonna swoop me up into their arms and make me part of their tight-knit camp/community- I had to make my own. A couple camps later and I'm leading an art car build of which I am not, nor any of my team members are even remotely qualified for :mrgreen: .

So, even if your not qualified or ready to organize/lead/build your own camp it's probably high time that you just went ahead and did it anyways.

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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by sparr » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:34 am

I'm trying really hard not to contribute to the divergent nature of this thread. I'm answering your questions and responding to your comments, but not providing my own separate thoughts on the matter.

I'd really like to put this subthread to rest. I am not looking for advice or help on finding a camp that meets my needs [in this thread]. I have plenty of responses to the advice that's been given, which I'm not stating here because this is the wrong thread for it.

It's probably far too late to be helpful to anyone, but I won't be discussing further in this thread anything other than avoiding scam camps.
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by Papa Bear » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:50 pm

sparr wrote:
Papa Bear wrote: That's not actually what was said, either here or on reddit.
It is, if you read the responses in the context of things I said, rather than things people wanted to argue with me having said that I didn't say...
I don't need to go read the responses, I was there when they were written. Maybe you haven't made the connection, but I was not only one of the people who responded to try to help advise you, I'm the one whose words you have quoted (out of context, I might add) on the reddit version of this thread no less than twice as an example of what you've termed bad advice.

Why did people think you wanted to know about financial matters? As you've already been told, it had a lot to do with your own words:
Is it unusual of me to expect to know something is happening when enough money is being spent to consume people's dues? I mean, sure, a few bucks here and there is one thing, but if hundreds to thousands of dollars are going into projects, you tell your camp members that, right?
It's not at all a huge leap for someone to have connected "something happening" with "money being spent", and understood that as wanting to know when expenditures were made on behalf of the camp. Thus, it's no surprise that a number of people did so. That may not have been your intent, but you could have phrased it a lot better.

But that's a distraction in any case - regardless of whether those who responded thought financial transparency was the motivator, the point is that you were not told that "asking for a refund was unreasonable", that you weren't owed any communication at all, or (as you stated in the other thread) that it is "unreasonable for a noob to expect to get involved or even find out what's going on". Multiple people have corrected you on that, including but not limited to the people you specifically quoted in your complaints otherwise. You're quite simply proceeding from a false premise - the advice itself wasn't bad, but your interpretation of it sure was.

It's always difficult to write online in a way that leaves absolutely no room for misunderstanding, but you have repeatedly adopted rather extreme interpretations of advice others have tried to give you, not only on this subject, but also on others. You also have a tendency to come off as abrasive toward those who sincerely try to help you, which does not help matters.

A misunderstanding here and there is perfectly normal. But when you repeatedly encounter the same kinds of problems on multiple subjects with lots of different people, you should consider the possibility that the problem may not lie with all those other people - it may, in fact, suggest the presence of a more fundamental issue in your own way of communicating.

Unlike some, I don't perceive you as a troll - I suspect you're genuinely just as frustrated by these conversations as many of the rest of us are. But I do think you might benefit from seeking out advice from a pro with experience coaching people on these kinds of communication issues. Sometimes having access to that kind of outside point of view can really help.

That all said, I'm sincerely sorry to hear of your experience with the disappearing regional camp, and doubly so for any way my advice might have contributed (even if I do think you seriously misinterpreted the discussion). I hope you had more luck getting in touch with - and potentially extracting yourself from - the other BM camp.

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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by sparr » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:16 pm

EDIT: no, not getting baited into continuing this.
If you want to make a reply about my personality instead of about what this thread is about, don't clutter this thread, post over here instead.

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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by Sham » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:46 pm

I saw some real, solid sound advice from Papa Bear. This advice may help you to work through the nearly constant issues that you're having with virtually everything.

Please don't feel like you're being baited, but rather open your mind up a bit and accept the ideas of others.

I too don't think you're a troll, but rather someone who wants every last detail explained and clarified.
I've been on the playa for 15 years, and my biggest crisis is what boots should I bring. (except for the year I forgot all my footwear)

Sparr, I hope some of the sincere advice here helps you work through whatever it is you're trying to figure out.

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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by maladroit » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:02 pm

Image

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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by Jackass » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:07 pm

nice!
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by gaminwench » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:37 pm

Excellent avatar upgrade!
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by GreyCoyote » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:10 am

After wading through yet another Sparr thread, I think I'd pay to hear him talk about the pros and cons of a high-fiber diet at Burningman. Because, you know, caca cant just happen. It needs to be planned, documented, argued-over, corrected, measured, optimized, duscussed, and THEN it can be dropped...
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by Bless » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:11 am

GreyCoyote wrote:After wading through yet another Sparr thread, I think I'd pay to hear him talk about the pros and cons of a high-fiber diet at Burningman. Because, you know, caca cant just happen. It needs to be planned, documented, argued-over, corrected, measured, optimized, duscussed, and THEN it can be dropped...
I recently started taking fiber supplements: GAME CHANGER!
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by Wigwam » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:04 am

I realize this may not be possible for everyone, but I would suggest camping on your own and while at the event actively seek people for social connections. I'm not saying you have to be a social butterfly, but engage in conversation, invite someone to share a snack or meal, see what their tastes are and if their general style matches yours. Use that as a basis for more interaction. If they're with a camp, ask if you can volunteer for some camp duties. Show your value both socially and communally. Most likely you'll be invited to join them, either next year or even in mid-event. Remember, building a village takes a...no, I won't go there. But these are people you're living with for a week or more. It is the essence of community. Good luck with finding what you want most. Connection.
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by sparr » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:21 am

Eric wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:02 pm
sparr wrote:Now I know that when future newbs ask the same questions this October, I can just tell them to wait for July before committing, when there will be a lot more (and more reputable) camps recruiting.
That would be inaccurate at best, completely wrong at worst. The camps that are still recruiting in July
Three years later and this is still pretty much spot on. Every year I meet more people who are interested in attending Burning Man, some of whom want to get involved with an art car or art project or camp logistics or something else effort-ful. I've still not found any better way to help those people find a camp and/or project than to just wait until June or July to start seeing camps posting on Facebook or showing up to talk about their projects at meetups.

(he says, while twiddling his thumbs bored wishing he had something to weld or drill or wire right now)
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Re: Advice for spotting scam camps?

Post by gaminwench » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:12 am

Yep,
May/June is a great time to be connecting with potentially dusty camps.

Unless you've met the cool match camp in the dirt/swamp/desert/forest/tundra of regionals,
or in the dust.

'Finding" a camp is not like shopping Victoria's Secret online, yo.

Playa the long game. Make friends; charm neighbors.
"the prophecies of doom were better last year" trilo

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