LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

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krly
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LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by krly » Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:27 pm

Most monkey hut tutorials say to use 2' rebar pounded 1/2 way into the ground for the arch "footings/anchors". Has anyone tried using lag screws instead. Say, 1/2x18" drilled half way in ?
Also, is there a better source for the lags than :the Fastenersuperstore dot com ? (1/2x18" $2 each +/-) ?
Thanks........krly

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FIGJAM
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by FIGJAM » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:22 pm

I'll be trying lags in legs this year.

They still have the best prices I've found.
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by June Cleaver » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:52 pm

krly wrote:Most monkey hut tutorials say to use 2' rebar pounded 1/2 way into the ground for the arch "footings/anchors". Has anyone tried using lag screws instead. Say, 1/2x18" drilled half way in ?
Also, is there a better source for the lags than :the Fastenersuperstore dot com ? (1/2x18" $2 each +/-) ?
Thanks........krly

Maybe consider 3/8 × 14 Hex Lag @superstore. #476110

Attach two or 3 links of chain to each
Drill ALL THEY WAY into Playa..
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burner von braun
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by burner von braun » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:17 pm

I haven't done the monkey hut thing yet, but if I understand this correctly, then some of the bolt/rebar needs to remain exposed to slide the PVC rib down over it to pin it in place to the ground. In that case I would wonder if sliding the PVC rib down over a lag bolt might benefit from some sort of bushings so that contact is more evenly distributed along the length of the exposed lag bolt. Perhaps a sleeve for the bolt, or some duct tape wrapped in a couple of spots to thicken the lag circumference to better match the inside diameter of the PVC rib for a more snug fit. Then again, perhaps I'm overthinking this one.

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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by maladroit » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:40 pm

For the "spring" direction (right angles away from the central spine) the lags would do great holding the ends of the PVC in place, assuming you have a good way to attach the lags to the PVC (chain into a bolt crossdrilled through the PVC maybe). But the monkeyhut relies on a solid bar of material to keep the ribs from falling over in the axial direction (along the central spine). I believe this would make guy lines from the spine mandatory.

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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by graidawg » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:16 am

FIGJAM wrote:I'll be trying lags in legs this year.

They still have the best prices I've found.

so how did it go? we have two monkey huts as part of our art and would love an alternative to pounding rebar
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by FIGJAM » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:36 am

I screwed the 3/8"x14" lags in leaving 4"s exposed.

With the tarp lagged to the playa through the grommets, the legs never tried to slip up or sideways.

With 1" pvc you could use 1/2"x24" for more exposure and a deeper bite.

MY failure happened because the half hut was on the windward side of my trailer, and actually buckled the 1" pvc at the connector attached at the top!!! :oops:

First of my playa designs to fail.

One lag got slightly bent, but was easily straightened and is still functional.

So I stretched the original design to shade Tinymystics van. (with the help of some borrowed EMT)
DSC01549.JPG
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Freedyjay
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by Freedyjay » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:37 pm

So, do you think it could work if you did the 1/2"x24" lag screws and went halfway as Figjam mentions? Then use the 1" PVC on them and maybe two smaller lag screws for the tarp?

I'm doing a Monkey Hut for the first time this year and want to avoid rebar if possible. Hoping using an impact driver is better.

(I know the Monkey hut is only six pieces of rebar, but a bit of a pain for someone with a bad back.)

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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by BBadger » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:24 pm

I would expect that would work. You might want a more hefty impact driver, but you could also just use a ratcheting wrench or something like that instead.
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by coronan » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:23 am

Would These work on the playa?

Hybrid Rebar - Lag...

[attachment=0]20180914_055417.jpg[/attachment]

12" rebar + 10" 3/8 lag bolt welded together. 22" total.

I recessed the rebar into the head of the lag bolt slightly to improve shear strength.
[attachment=1]20180914_054753.jpg[/attachment]


I just have to come up with a jig to keep them straight. They could be installed into the playa with a drill or a pipe wrench and REMOVED way easier than regular rebar stakes.


Would folks be interested in these?

Thoughts?
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Ratty
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by Ratty » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:29 am

Please read the last couple of posts in the thread/link provided below. Look at the pictures. The playa can be as tough as concrete. I'm afraid your invention has an added stress point that can easily fail.

viewtopic.php?f=277&t=68556&p=1169456#p1169456
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by BBadger » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:18 pm

Other than having a weakpoint at the joint, how are you going to drill that into the playa with a piece of rebar sticking out the top?

Being able to impact driver those into the playa is one of the biggest benefits of using lag bolts vs pounding rebar. If it requires a pipe wrench or something I might as well just use rebar.
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by freakish_matt » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:06 am

In the interest of giving back I'm gonna piss in the lag screw pond here with my monkey hut solution which worked for me this year (first big burn,yay).

I got 24" long 1/2" lag screws then cut 10-12" sections of 1/2" PVC "sleeves" to put around the top half of the lag screws. Below the PVC I put some chain links which get trapped against the playa by the PVC to provide tie downs for the tarp. I also augmented these with "normal" 3/8" lag screws with chain links for additional tarp tie-downs.

The pictures can probably describe it better than my words. (heh, sorry the PVC was not decommodified)
lag_with_PVC_in_ground.jpg
lag_with_pvc_pulled.jpg
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Token
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by Token » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:49 pm

I don’t care so much if there are failure points.

That is fucking SEXY!

IronPorn!

Keep tinkering!

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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by Kenshiro » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:20 pm

freakish_matt wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:06 am
In the interest of giving back I'm gonna piss in the lag screw pond here with my monkey hut solution which worked for me this year (first big burn,yay).

I got 24" long 1/2" lag screws then cut 10-12" sections of 1/2" PVC "sleeves" to put around the top half of the lag screws. Below the PVC I put some chain links which get trapped against the playa by the PVC to provide tie downs for the tarp. I also augmented these with "normal" 3/8" lag screws with chain links for additional tarp tie-downs.

The pictures can probably describe it better than my words. (heh, sorry the PVC was not decommodified)
lag_with_PVC_in_ground.jpg lag_with_pvc_pulled.jpg
This is an idea that has serious potential, especially if you replace the PVC with metal tubing. With adequate length on the lag, and chain link at the bottom, that would make for a pretty stout replacement for rebar in monkey huts and such.

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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by Canoe » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:21 pm

freakish_matt wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:06 am
In the interest of giving back I'm gonna piss in the lag screw pond here with my monkey hut solution which worked for me this year (first big burn,yay).
I got 24" long 1/2" lag screws then cut 10-12" sections of 1/2" PVC "sleeves" to put around the top half of the lag screws. Below the PVC I put some chain links which get trapped against the playa by the PVC to provide tie downs for the tarp. I also augmented these with "normal" 3/8" lag screws with chain links for additional tarp tie-downs.
The pictures can probably describe it better than my words. (heh, sorry the PVC was not decommodified)
This is great!

Pinning the chain links down is a great idea.

This may be useful for the conduit structures too. Pole slips over the lag and the top can be pulled down to the link; the pinned middle link is the plate for the pole, or slip a flat plate onto the lag assembly before screwing it into the playa. Easily cross-brace with lines from the top to an adjacent bottom's link.

I'm not sure when the heat or wind load means the PVC isn't strong enough to keep the links pinned or to not slip past the bolt head. Perhaps a washer to better distribute the load. Metal (not aluminum) & washer should certainly address that issue for larger loads.

Only problem I can see is that in some years, 12" down into the playa soil isn't enough grip against vertical pull out. You could add another lag to also secure one of the links directly to the playa, but that's not ideal, and with 24" lags you can easily cut the PVC down for more depth into the playa.

So with 24" of lag, and soft soil years, is 16" below enough?
Would the remaining 8" above be sufficient for the Monkey Hut?
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freakish_matt
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Re: LAG SCREWS and MONKEY HUTS...

Post by freakish_matt » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:40 am

Canoe wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:21 pm

Only problem I can see is that in some years, 12" down into the playa soil isn't enough grip against vertical pull out. You could add another lag to also secure one of the links directly to the playa, but that's not ideal, and with 24" lags you can easily cut the PVC down for more depth into the playa.

So with 24" of lag, and soft soil years, is 16" below enough?
Would the remaining 8" above be sufficient for the Monkey Hut?
Agreed - 12" above ground felt excessive when I was setting it up; 8/16 would probably be a better compromise. I brought a PVC cutter along just in case but at our 3AM build time it all felt plenty solid with the conditions this year.

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