Re-bar or Lag Screws for a Monkee Hut ?

[krly]

I've seen some posts on folks using lag screws instead of rebar to slide the pvc arches over. Just wondering what the general consensus is.
If lags are used with, say 1" pvc, what sizes are used ? What length and how much is left above ground ? THANKS !!
Ken in Anaheim

[Ratty]

krly, The reason nobody answered this question when you wrote it on the other thread is...What the F-----? You would need lag screws 4 feet long. I suggest you find the posts that led you to this conclusion and ask those people directly.

Then please come back here and share it with us. I want pictures or something's fishy.

[torrey.smith]

krly, The reason nobody answered this question when you wrote it on the other thread is...What the F-----? You would need lag screws 4 feet long. I suggest you find the posts that led you to this conclusion and ask those people directly.

Then please come back here and share it with us. I want pictures or something's fishy.

[TT120]

I've seen some threads about people using lags for monkey huts but I couldn't see how that would work so I figured I misread it. You want at least 1.5 feet below ground for stability and 1.5 feet above ground for the PVC to slide over so even an 18 inch lag wouldn't even be close enough to work. You could use lags for the 2 tiedowns front and back.

[AntiM]

For monkey huts, the rebar is structural, not just for a tie down point. Lags are not really in the equation.

[Strata]

I used 18 inch lags last year for my first ever monkey hut, 9 inches above and below. They were 3/8 Inch diameter and had some bending from the crazy dust squall on Tuesday afternoon. Am planning on getting half inch lags this year. It's worth noting that my shade on the hut is aluminet 70%, so I'm not having the kind of wind loading I'd get with a solid tarp.

Nobody batted an eyelash on the MH threads when I asked about using lags last year. I'm pretty surprised to see the previous comments on this thread.

[Ratty]

Thanks Strata. I've been wondering if anyone that had used lags would tell us about it. I can picture it but...One year the top 6 inches in my camp was like reaching into a bag of flour. If the lags in the tubes failed the whole thing would move and then collapse. On the other hand I'm glad it worked. Structures on the playa are ever changing.

[Strata]

Hmm, thanks Ratty. I've never had that kind of playa surface experience, but now I'm wondering if I should get some rebar as a backup.

[claybcook]

You need both Lag screws and stakes/rebar. The rebar/stake is driven straight down into the playa and the PVC is placed over it. The rebar/stake locates the PVC and keeps it from sliding sideways, but doesn't hold the PVC down to the ground. Can you picture this? Rebar/Stakes only give lateral resistance to the structure sliding across the playa. Drive them deep, but leave about a foot above ground so there's plenty for the PVC to bear against. Even so, the PVC can easily slide straight upwards and off the stake/rebar. That's where the lag screws come in.
Lag screws are only about 14 inches long and only 3/8' thick, so not much lateral strength, but the threads of the screws provide extraordinary strength to hold things down to the ground. If you put a couple of links of chain through the bolt before you screw it to the ground, you can lace line or rope or mule tape through those links and through the grommets on your tarp and it won't blow away.

Both are needed. Last year was my first Burn and first Monkey Hut, and it came out great.

[Papa Bear]

Lag screws are only about 14 inches long and only 3/8' thick

Lag screws come in lots of sizes. Quite a few of us use 18" long by 1/2" diameter lags for our structures. It's not at all hard to source lag screws all the way up to 24" x 5/8".

Whether any of those larger sizes are better than rebar for this application is a different question, of course.

[claybcook]

Wow. Size matters! Are you using those to replace re-bar to locate things, or to hold things down to the playa? My lag screw search topped out at 3/8" X 14", but maybe I wasn't looking for larger. I need about 12 stakes to locate the structure of my Monkey hut and use lag screws to hold the tarps down via mule tape through the grommets. I never thought about using lags in place of the stakes. Hmmmm.

[Papa Bear]

In my case, to hold things down (a Mongolian-style yurt and a couple of carports). Never tried them for monkey huts myself.

Try fastenersuperstore.com if you're looking for the longer ones.

[jfeaz]

Does anyone have any info on the comparative resistance to bending between lag screws and rebar?

I'm not going to make it to the playa this year, but I use my Monkey Hut at Joshua Tree in June when the wind is even worse than the Playa. Last year when I pulled out my 2' rebar, they were all bent beyond repair from the stress of the PVC elasticity and the wind.

I'm thinking about getting some 2' lag screws to slip the PVC over this year. Will they stay straight?

[Popeye]

Does anyone have any info on the comparative resistance to bending between lag screws and rebar?
?

Rebar is made to bend. Stop by Lowes/ Home Depot and pick up a piece of rebar the same diameter as the lag you are buying, hold your hands about a foot apart and try to bend it. Most people can.

[BBadger]

It's not really bad that it bends. The fact that the rebar bent despite the PVC bending means it must've just been really windy. The whole structure of a monkeyhut is supposed to be flexible and bendy anyway, and as long as the PVC doesn't come off the rebar you should be fine.

I've even put cut pieces of hose on the ends of the rebar to keep the rebar from damaging the PVC from shock and to make it grip better.

[jfeaz]

It's not really bad that it bends. The fact that the rebar bent despite the PVC bending means it must've just been really windy. The whole structure of a monkeyhut is supposed to be flexible and bendy anyway, and as long as the PVC doesn't come off the rebar you should be fine.

I've even put cut pieces of hose on the ends of the rebar to keep the rebar from damaging the PVC from shock and to make it grip better.

Will lag screws bend though?

It's find that rebar bends but now I have a bunch of bent rebar I can't pound back into the ground on my next build. Yes, I can take them to someplace with a vise and bend them back, but also I could just as easily get lag screws instead and never have to deal with this again, providing that they won't bend the way rebar does. Does anyone know?

[BBadger]

Maybe? Lag screws are usually drilled flush with the ground, and they're often shorter than the rebar used for monkey huts. They very well might still bend depending on the length and forces. Maybe if you got some 1/2"-diameter lag screws they won't bend much.

My rebar never bent, except when I was candycaning them after heating them with a torch, but I was using 5/8" rebar which is substantially thicker than a lot of the rebar people like to use.

[FIGJAM]

Your lags may get bent a little, but they won't bend like rebar.

Easy to straighten with a hammer and can still be screwed in and out.

[jfeaz]

Thanks everyone! I just found out that the 2' lag screws I was about to order on fastenersuperstore.com have heads too big to fit inside my PVC anyway, so guess I'll just stick with rebar.

[BaudEByter]

Thanks everyone! I just found out that the 2' lag screws I was about to order on fastenersuperstore.com have heads too big to fit inside my PVC anyway, so guess I'll just stick with rebar.

What size PVC are you using? I’m doing a 15’x30’ and using aluminet. 1/2” 24” lags are the plan. 1/2 lags are .866 corner to corner at the head. That Should fit in 1” pvc ...no? ID of 1” sch40 pvc is 1.049

[BaudEByter]

I see a lot of talk about using 24" 1/2 lag bolts for a monkeyhut but has anyone actually done this yet?

[Jordanryan]

I used about 50 1/2 24" lags for my zook last year and worked fine (probably spent $150 on lags). I dropped them 50-75% in and didn't put any tape on the exposed screw or head. I could not imagine having to drive in all that rebar. Check out my build

[Spacepolo]

hello,
is it possible to screw a 12'' lag screw to the playa ground without an electric drill ?

[Popeye]

hello,
is it possible to screw a 12'' lag screw to the playa ground without an electric drill ?

Possible but not a lot of fun. google speedwrench.

BTW, welcome and stop over at the Greeters Station and say hello and tell us a little about yourself, what you like to do and why you are going to Burning Man.

[longevity_tina]

I'm wondering if attaching some sort of foot plate to the piping would allow for 100% lag screw.

I'm going to browse around hardware store for ideas.
I'll try a mounting flange, attach that to a bracket for lag screws to go into. I'll post my finished experiment


Also, this guy breaks it down really well I think:

[longevity_tina]

I used about 50 1/2 24" lags for my zook last year and worked fine (probably spent $150 on lags). I dropped them 50-75% in and didn't put any tape on the exposed screw or head. I could not imagine having to drive in all that rebar. Check out my build

Did you use a regular drill for the 24"?
Thanks!

[FIGJAM]

$4 for a lag that costs $1.15, and $1.50 for 2 links chain???

I do wish people would stop commodifying my ideas.

[silvergirl70]

Coming on this thread late for 2018, but I used 2' rebar to stake down my very modified monkey hut (15'x24' with a 25' arc). Then tied the end rib pieces down to the rebar with paracord threaded through each rib, using icicle hitches on the end, attached to the rebar. Might as well use that pounded rebar as an internal anchor instead of running extra guy lines out.

This was the 2nd year using my design. Worked pretty well !