To Shade or Not to Shade?

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks regarding shelter, shade, tents, and camping. Yes, this includes RV's too.
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Leo
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To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Leo » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:57 pm

Hi Friends,
I will be camping in a 10' x 10' Kodiak flex-bow tent, which I understand will become an Easy-Bake Oven by 8:30 am. For all of you canvas tent folks out there, is it worth the time and effort to have a shade structure over the tent? The 10' x 10' tent footprint is too big for fitting under a Costco carport, so I would most likely need to construct a 1" EMT frame with covered with a tarp or shade cloth. Your experience and opinions are appreciated!
Best Regards,
Leo

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Elliot
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Elliot » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:27 pm

I have three Costco carports set up in my back yard, and they measure a full 10 feet wide. And you can always splay a couple legs out a few extra inches.

Oh, definitely have shade over your tent, yes.
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Canoe
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Canoe » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:48 pm

Bring cookie dough?

Camp in the shade of something big?
(Camping with someone with an RV?)

That lists as 10'x10' and 6'6" high.
If you can pull it off, you'll get much more sleepin time, and the ability to rest in it during the day.
However, sunrise occurs North of East, with 8:00am sun high enough to be heating the top yet it's coming from just a touch South of East, so you'll want to shade the East side too, not just the South and top. 6:00 pm has the sun almost due West, but it's heading down behind the hill so not as critical and most people aren't counting on being in bed by then...

There's a number of structures have been used for this, but they can get somewhat large. I'm not coming up with an obvious solution other than, well, a large monkey hut. This thread may help
viewtopic.php?t=36134
The other style one sees is along the lines of a flat-top design as is linked to in that thread.
Are you camping with people who may benefit from a few tents fitting under a larger (but not higher) structure?

It may be cheaper and/or easier to use a bucket version of the DIY swamp cooler, but you'd need to rig a way to vent it through the door opening as I sure wouldn't want to cut that tent to make an opening. You'd also need a small exhaust vent (partially unzip a window - ideally near the top). Depends on how the door/zippers are done. I love swamp coolers, but I'm not liking the idea of trying to fit one to that tent. Apparently no. The bucket cooler doesn't have enough capacity/flow for this (tent size/volume, no insulation, no reflective barrier, etc.).

Worst case for some relief, remember the old school method of cooling. Hand held spray bottles with potable water. Mist the air, it absorbs heat going to vapour. Once you've saturated the air with moisture, no more cooling the heat. Vent that hot/humid air to outside, then mist again to change the now dry & hot (dusty) air into cool moist air.

p.s.
If you're going to be brave enough to have the awing up, make sure you've got two guy lines off of each pole (not a single line at 45 degrees), to help keep those corners from whipping around in the wind.
I'm sure you know about the windows, doors, mesh and dust.

p.s.s. And Elliot posted while I was floundering in edit.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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Luigi
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Luigi » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:10 am

Go for the 10x10 flat top shade made from 1" EMT, for about $100 of parts. You won't regret it.

Shade - Water - Bike are the top three on my list.

Luigi
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motskyroonmatick
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by motskyroonmatick » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:12 pm

My vote would be a 20'x20' shade of the flat top fitting and 1"EMT variety. A shade structure that matched the footprint of your tent means some part of your tent will always be in the sun if not shaded by a large vehicle. A bigger shade lets you have your own living room in the shade and put the tent in the corner furthest away from the rising sun so you get the longest shade for sleeping in recovery.
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BBadger
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by BBadger » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:27 pm

Those 10x10 tents are only 10x10 at their base and taper upwards. They fit perfectly into a standard carport.

Shade is more important than your tent. A tent is just a portable container for your loose stuff. Shade lets you sleep, cook, rest, and do anything at all while in camp during the day.

If you're going to opt to toss something out, toss out your tent and keep the shade.
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Token
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Token » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:22 am

BBadger wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:27 pm
Those 10x10 tents are only 10x10 at their base and taper upwards. They fit perfectly into a standard carport.

Shade is more important than your tent. A tent is just a portable container for your loose stuff. Shade lets you sleep, cook, rest, and do anything at all while in camp during the day.

If you're going to opt to toss something out, toss out your tent and keep the shade.
True for most years ... but ... every once a decade we get one of those windy storm years and it’s colder than a Russian gulag at night.

Having a small tent on hand is highly recommend, even if it ends up being a glorified closet.

Leo
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Leo » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:08 pm

I'm designing a 12' x 18' shade structure with EMT and prefab EMT connectors. If I keep the spans short (6'-0" or less) and the verticals at 6'-8", would the 3/4" diameter EMT be sufficient? I would be using ratchet straps diagonally on 3 sides. Each leg (8 total) would have a base plate and be connected to the playa with lag screws. The EMT dimensions are designed to be short enough to fit in the bed of my pickup truck.
Best Regards,
Leo

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Jackass
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Jackass » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:34 pm

I wouldn't make that thing any shorter than 7.5'- 8', unless you'll be sitting low all of the time. It will be hot when standing under.

Good luck keeping things within your truck bed size...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

11th Principle: Depussyfication - Keeping Burning Man potentially lethal. Token

Leo
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Leo » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:31 pm

Hi Jackass,
This shade structure would have a gable profile with a 3:12 pitch, so the peak height would be around 8'-2" or 20" of clearance over the tent ridge. I could probably go with 7'-0" on the verticals and get 24" of vertical clearance above the tent ridge.
Best Regards,
Leo

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Popeye
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Popeye » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:59 pm

Leo wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:31 pm
Hi Jackass,
This shade structure would have a gable profile with a 3:12 pitch, so the peak height would be around 8'-2" or 20" of clearance over the tent ridge.
Put a vent in the ridge or use two tarps that meet at the ridge to let the heat out. Especially if you have any side walls.
nobody wants to live in a world with only one flavor...

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Kikikukiki
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Kikikukiki » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:26 pm

Guys,

May i know how you secure your shade structure to the ground?

Meaning:
I will have two poles and the tarp key hole will be fitted into the poles. Four sides of the tarp will be string to the ground.

Question:
How do i support and secure the standing poles into the ground? I read that the ground is quite solid. If you have loose earth, you can probably probe it in. But in this case, do i hit a rebar peg into the ground and bind the pole to the rebar peg?

Please advice.
Great Thanks
So many IF's but I'm still planning ahead! Burning Man 2018 here I come! SOLO YOLO 8)

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Canoe
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Canoe » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:59 am

Kikikukiki wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:26 pm
Guys,
May i know how you secure your shade structure to the ground?
Meaning: I will have two poles and the tarp key hole will be fitted into the poles. Four sides of the tarp will be string to the ground.
Question: How do i support and secure the standing poles into the ground? I read that the ground is quite solid. If you have loose earth, you can probably probe it in. But in this case, do i hit a rebar peg into the ground and bind the pole to the rebar peg?
Please advice. Great Thanks
I'm not getting how you'd have one tarp, two poles and four sides string to the ground. I can see four corners strung to the ground, but rather than guess, can you post a photo of such a setup so we can see what goes where, so we can see exactly what structure you intend so we can best advise?
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

carterjp
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by carterjp » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:06 am

What's the best compass orientation to park an RV with a retractable awning on the passenger side (wanting that area to get the least heat)?

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Canoe
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Canoe » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:13 pm

carterjp wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:06 am
What's the best compass orientation to park an RV with a retractable awning on the passenger side (wanting that area to get the least heat)?
Nose facing due West, so the side with the awing is facing due North.
The RV provides the first shade, the awning extends it further.

DO NOT leave your site with the awning open/extended/deployed. Heavy winds can come up at any time.
Don't even leave it up when you go inside for a nap.
If it's a Rental, huge fee if it gets ripped off in the wind. If it's yours, you'll cry even at the lower price.
If it hits anything downwind, you're in big trouble, especially if it hits people.
Canoe wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:50 am
... unless it's a walk-in-the-park year with light winds, understand the Black Rock Desert Playa gets winds that are commonly up to 35 mph, often up to 70 mph, and occasionally to 100 mph and above. Google eplaya Condition Alpha. Then there's the dust devils, which have lifted and make air borne various playa structures. And if there's a microburst, all bets are off.

The concern in a wind isn't just something getting damaged in the wind, but what damage it can do to things and people as pieces fly off or entire objects or even structures take off across the playa. ...
Here's last year's wind/sun map.
https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic ... 0#p1137827

Here's the RV Tips & Tricks thread.
https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic ... 77&t=78622
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Kikikukiki
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Kikikukiki » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:55 am

Capture.JPG
Image as an example. How do i secure the 2 poles to the ground?
Canoe wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:59 am
Kikikukiki wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:26 pm
Guys,
May i know how you secure your shade structure to the ground?
Meaning: I will have two poles and the tarp key hole will be fitted into the poles. Four sides of the tarp will be string to the ground.
Question: How do i support and secure the standing poles into the ground? I read that the ground is quite solid. If you have loose earth, you can probably probe it in. But in this case, do i hit a rebar peg into the ground and bind the pole to the rebar peg?
Please advice. Great Thanks
I'm not getting how you'd have one tarp, two poles and four sides string to the ground. I can see four corners strung to the ground, but rather than guess, can you post a photo of such a setup so we can see what goes where, so we can see exactly what structure you intend so we can best advise?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
So many IF's but I'm still planning ahead! Burning Man 2018 here I come! SOLO YOLO 8)

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gaminwench
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by gaminwench » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:17 am

Drive rebar or lag bolts into the playa next to the support emt poles.
Wrap both tightly with saran wrap.
Wrap over the saran with gorilla/duct tape to secure.

Party like a rock star for the week.

To uninstall:
Cut thru tape/saran wrap and remove.
Pour a bit of water around rebar/lag.
Wriggle/wrest/unscrew.

Fill hole, restore playa.
"the prophecies of doom were better last year" trilo

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Kikikukiki
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Kikikukiki » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:51 am

Some body told me you can get ready made rebar pegs in Supply Depot at Reno. I googled and only found Home Depot and Office Depot.

Did i get it right? Does any body know the price for a rebar peg? My currency just weakened. Its x4 for every dollar... :cry:
gaminwench wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:17 am
Drive rebar or lag bolts into the playa next to the support emt poles.
Wrap both tightly with saran wrap.
Wrap over the saran with gorilla/duct tape to secure.

Party like a rock star for the week.

To uninstall:
Cut thru tape/saran wrap and remove.
Pour a bit of water around rebar/lag.
Wriggle/wrest/unscrew.

Fill hole, restore playa.
So many IF's but I'm still planning ahead! Burning Man 2018 here I come! SOLO YOLO 8)

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Token
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Token » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:21 am

Kikikukiki wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:55 am
Capture.JPG

Image as an example. How do i secure the 2 poles to the ground?
That is a tensile tarp A frame design.

The shade cloth must be very strong, the poles must be very strong. Playa winds are ruthless.

I would change the design and get a longer shade cloth, double length. Then take one side to the ground. This side should go East for best sun protection.

The A shape doesn’t need to be symmetrical, one side can be longer.

On the West side where you attach rope to the shade cloth, don’t use the grommets. They will tear out. Use a golf ball or tennis ball, wrap the corner of the cloth around the ball fully, twist a bit to get a skinny tube of cloth then wrap your rope around it. This way the shade cloth won’t tear at the grommet.

Home Depot has both pre-cut rebar in 2 foot length ( ~ 50 cm).

They also have long 12 inch nails that are called Gutter Nails or Carpenter Spikes. Those are good for the side that goes to the ground.

Sadly, I can’t help with the currency exchange ;)

How are you getting to BM? Car? Bus?

Zubeneschamali
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Zubeneschamali » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:58 pm

How much shade can you pack? Throw out enough crap to triple it. Bring at least that much shade.

This isn't a luxury. Out there it is a necessity.

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Canoe
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Re: To Shade or Not to Shade?

Post by Canoe » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:50 pm

Kikikukiki wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:55 am
Capture.JPG

Image as an example. How do i secure the 2 poles to the ground?
Kikikukiki wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:26 pm
Guys,
May i know how you secure your shade structure to the ground?
Meaning: I will have two poles and the tarp key hole will be fitted into the poles. Four sides of the tarp will be string to the ground.
In addition to what Token has said, I like to see TWO guy lines to the top of a pole, as the tarp will be trying to whip around in the wind. And some people like having two guy lines on each corner, to better hold that point rather than have the tarp shifting around in the wind, adding a dynamic load.
Is that the actual size of tarp you intend to use?
What do you intend to shade; a chair, table, tent?
What time of day do you expect to be using that shade?

Take a look at when and where the sun is coming from, to see why Token is suggesting taking one side right to the ground on the East. The sun is up before 7:00am, and from a tiny bit North of East. By 9:00am, you're baked already. Shading from the East is typical for shading a tent so you have morning sun protection so you can sleep-in, else in the sun, you're not likely to get past 9:00am, or even abandoning the tent earlier.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78496&hilit=elevati ... 0#p1138417
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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