Painted yurt?

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bhearn
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Painted yurt?

Post by bhearn » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:37 pm

Has anyone tried painting their yurt panels white? I would hate to be the guy that mooped up the playa with paint flakes after a dust storm. So, any tips on paint selection or sealant would be appreciated.

Why would I want to do that, you say; isn't the aluminum panel coating reflective enough? Here's the background:

After I'd explained my new yurt design at a conference a while back, a physicist friend of mine came up to me and said "I'll never understand why everyone goes with aluminum-coated panels -- it's such a bad idea".

He explained that aluminum is optically gray (not an especially high albedo, especially when dusty), but white in IR. Meaning, it absorbs visible light, heats up, and can't reradiate the heat effectively. So the heat is conducted into the panels.

By contrast, observatories are painted with a white paint which, while it also absorbs some visible light, reradiates it all in IR very effectively. So, the dome doesn't heat up.

I found this link which puts some hard numbers to this:

http://umich.edu/~lowbrows/reflections/ ... yan.5.html

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lucky420
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by lucky420 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:56 pm

Yeah I did that on my first yurt, the first year I went. Thought it would be good to paint it white so it wouldn’t be so glaring. So painted it with some paint I already had, indoor water based acrlyic, about 1 day before we left.

Not a good idea. It rained our first night on playa so we didn’t set up yurt but left it in the back of the big truck all bundled up. In the morning when we put it together the tape wouldn’t stick to the painted panels because the paint had a moisture layer (I’d only painted the roof panels). Panic and dread set in but...they did dry out and I had extra tape so all was well. I think we may have flipped some of the panels too

I have painted other yurts using spray paint, it goes on in nice light layers and dries right away

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bhearn
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by bhearn » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:16 pm

OK thanks. Any moop issues? My yurt assembles with velcro, so tape is not an issue.

Can you recommend a spray paint?

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lucky420
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by lucky420 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:59 am

No I was ok on the moop, no issues.

Oh any type of spray paint. Just remember to layer it, I love playing with spray paint
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Token
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by Token » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:10 am

Elastomeric roof coating is designed exactly for what you are doing.

Google it.

Elastomers stay flexible when dry so do not flake or peel.

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lucky420
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by lucky420 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:23 pm

Token wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:10 am
Elastomeric roof coating is designed exactly for what you are doing.

Google it.

Elastomers stay flexible when dry so do not flake or peel.
Yeah but does it come in groovy colors?
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Canoe
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by Canoe » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:56 pm

bhearn wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:37 pm
... Why would I want to do that, you say; isn't the aluminum panel coating reflective enough? Here's the background:
After I'd explained my new yurt design at a conference a while back, a physicist friend of mine came up to me and said "I'll never understand why everyone goes with aluminum-coated panels -- it's such a bad idea".
He explained that aluminum is optically gray (not an especially high albedo, especially when dusty), but white in IR. Meaning, it absorbs visible light, heats up, and can't reradiate the heat effectively. So the heat is conducted into the panels.
By contrast, observatories are painted with a white paint which, while it also absorbs some visible light, reradiates it all in IR very effectively. So, the dome doesn't heat up.
I found this link which puts some hard numbers to this:
http://umich.edu/~lowbrows/reflections/ ... yan.5.html
You have to look at the reflectivity, absorption and emissivity. Those numbers are not the numbers of typical white paint nor of the aluminum foil on the typical hexayurt panels (they absorb more and emit more than the article's numbers).

The better the reflectivity, the more time you have in the sun before that heat builds up. Both the foil radiant barrier and the insulation work hand-in-hand. ALL practical surfaces have some absorption and that heat collects up; then it faces the insulation to try and conduct inside. Typical white paint absorbs significantly more than the number in that article. While better than most white paints, white Elastomeric roof coating play funny in their specs by bouncing selectively between values for visible vs. IR. It works well on my trailer, but it's NOT a miracle radiant barrier by any means.

AND, on the playa you're not just looking to reflect away direct solar radiation, you're trying to reflect away the heat radiated at you from the hot air and the sun-baked ground. Which is why radiant barriers work so well on the playa.

Observatories have the advantage of being up and typically at the top of a geographic feature.

If you're going white, then gloss white reflects more. And if you mist the paint onto the surface, like overspray, so it has a slightly pebbled surface for more effective surface area, then it has more surface area from which to emit heat away. And a textured white surface that is emitting has more of that emitted energy reflecting away. A media-blasted (for more effective surface area) aluminum surface misted with a gloss ceramic white paint makes an awesome radiator for getting rid of heat when in the sun.
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Token
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by Token » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:59 pm

lucky420 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:23 pm
Token wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:10 am
Elastomeric roof coating is designed exactly for what you are doing.

Google it.

Elastomers stay flexible when dry so do not flake or peel.
Yeah but does it come in groovy colors?
It comes in all colors all the time. White!

Wait a minute, white is not a real color :D

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BBadger
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by BBadger » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:18 pm

lucky420 wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:56 pm
Oh that’s the year I almost brought a couch full of baby black widow spiders. Some of the shit I do...lol I swear
That's a couch of nope that probably needed burning.
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bhearn
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by bhearn » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:08 pm

Thanks all. Decisions, decisions!

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Canoe
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Re: Painted yurt?

Post by Canoe » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:45 am

If you stick with the shiny (they're only relatively shiny, not mirror) panels, it is a good idea to take a spraycan or two of white. That way if you're camped beside someone and your shiny panels are reflecting too much heat at them and baking them, you can give a quick light mist on the offending panels to spare your neighbours.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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