The 5-1/2 yurt

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bhearn
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The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:12 pm

After taking a hexayurt last year (bought from Reno Hexayurt), I decided to try to my hand at a new design. What I came up with has:

– Twice as much area above 6' as a hexayurt
– Full-height door, in a 4x8 plywood sheet
– Velcro assembly, no taping / cutting on playa
– Single-person assembly*

* technically I met this goal, but two would be a lot easier.

It has five 8' walls and one 4' wall, thus, the 5-1/2 yurt. It's made from 13 panels. Everything is whole panels and half-panel triangles, except for the roof. Mine is also fully beveled, but if I did it again I would use Camp Danger hinges. (There are 11 different angles to bevel!)

How stable will it be anchored to the playa? Only one way to find out...

Please come take a look. I'll be at Camp Nosefish starting Monday, Rod's Rd. @ 4:15.

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Canoe
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Canoe » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:55 am

Interesting.
Classic hexayurts have the powerband of their strong tape running all around the top of the wall. And they don't need bevels.
Make sure you post back what you thought of it on the playa.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

Guard Dawg
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Guard Dawg » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:02 am

bhearn wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:12 pm
After taking a hexayurt last year (bought from Reno Hexayurt), I decided to try to my hand at a new design. What I came up with has:

– Twice as much area above 6' as a hexayurt
– Full-height door, in a 4x8 plywood sheet
– Velcro assembly, no taping / cutting on playa
– Single-person assembly*

* technically I met this goal, but two would be a lot easier.

It has five 8' walls and one 4' wall, thus, the 5-1/2 yurt. It's made from 13 panels. Everything is whole panels and half-panel triangles, except for the roof. Mine is also fully beveled, but if I did it again I would use Camp Danger hinges. (There are 11 different angles to bevel!)

How stable will it be anchored to the playa? Only one way to find out...

Please come take a look. I'll be at Camp Nosefish starting Monday, Rod's Rd. @ 4:15.

Image

Image
Excellent!!!
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Elderberry » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:13 am

Definitely want to hear back after it's been playa tested.
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:19 am

Canoe wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:55 am
Interesting.
Classic hexayurts have the powerband of their strong tape running all around the top of the wall. And they don't need bevels.
Make sure you post back what you thought of it on the playa.
Yeah. I'd be lying if I said I weren't a little nervous. I don't know whether the bevels are overkill or will not add any stability anyway, but I thought they might help.

When I first posted about this idea in the Hexayurt Google group last summer, I was expecting to be told why it wouldn't be stable, but nobody seemed to have any concerns about that. Vinay Gupta liked it. I'll anchor it with a rope halo around QFGHIJKLMNO, with four or five ratchet straps attached to lag bolts.

I'm encouraged that there are lots of other yurt designs out there that seem to have worked. This is maybe closest in concept to the H13, where the tape ring is broken by the door. Here, the door panel has a lot more strength. Also velcro has been used before. So, I'm optimistic. I'll definitely report back.

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by maladroit » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:47 am

I like it except for that roof panel. The H12 can't really be screwed up if you can successfully cut a rectangle diagonally. The plywood door panel helps with the lack of a yurt band.

bhearn
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:05 am

maladroit wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:47 am
I like it except for that roof panel. The H12 can't really be screwed up if you can successfully cut a rectangle diagonally. The plywood door panel helps with the lack of a yurt band.
It's not hard to mark and cut those pieces. I figured the exact dimensions in the CAD layout. But that is the least of the complexity in this design. It was a ton of work. It's for people who want more ease of use on the playa at the expense of a more challenging construction off the playa.

Of course I was figuring it out as I went, and the beveling, likely unnecessary, was the most tedious part. More than twice as many linear feet to bevel as an H12, with 11 different angles. Worse, at some of the corners, there are bad multi-way bevel interactions, so the ends must be trimmed carefully.

I just broke it down for the first time. Fully assembled to a plywood sandwich: 15 minutes flat. :o (Thanks for the sideways pic, tinypic.)

Image

Here is how the velcro flaps work:

Image

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Canoe
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Canoe » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:09 am

Personally, I'm convinced ("believe") that bevelling makes it stronger. With the classic designs and the 6" wide "hexayurt" tape, I also believe that doesn't matter (IF it's the correct tape and 6" wide, and reasonably centred across the gap so each panel is gripped equally by the tape).
  • I see lots of angles for the wind to flow around it and let the wind pressure escape.
  • You can run continuous tape power-band along the usual top of panel, then have it follow up and over the door as shown by the purple line.
  • The biggest panel/angle load should be on those to each side of the door. And there I have somewhat of a concern, shown by the red line, with that area split in two across it. As in, might it fold up there in a strong blow.
  • I'd feel a lot better if those were made from panels that ran bottom to top, rather than side to side, shown by the green lines. I'd do that if building another one, but I wouldn't redo it for this trip to the playa.
    I WOULD take two precut 2"x2" or 2"x3", one for each panel to each side of the door, and tape it top to bottom with hexayurt tape, inside the yurt, right up the middle on that green line that splits "A" vertically.
  • Without that wood to prevent it folding along "red", I'd consider the 6" hexayurt tape added along the violet line in the diagram, from the lower door corner of "A", up and over along G and onto H, to cross-brace the two panels that make A.
  • I'd also consider taping the orange line too, like a cross brace, to help keep the current panels making A behaving.
  • At the bottom edge of H, that will have a lot of leverage against it from the length of H.
    * I'd consider a 6" tape across H & I as shown by blue in the diagram, and
    * a 6" contiguous run of tape from the front corner of R to the point and down the seam of I to J, shown in blue. Of course, the symmetrical run on the other side.
  • With the odd angles and pieces of panels, I like the rope and ratchet hold down better than extending the over the top tape lines to attachment points.
  • As wind coming straight on at the door 'sees' the door and the "A"s to each side and will be trying to blow the door in, consider four stakes or pieces of rebar, two per bottom door corner of A, one inside and one outside "book-ending" the corner, to prevent that corner moving so the panels and tape can do their job. Possibly the same at the outer bottom corners of the "A"s. Wouldn't hurt to run a 2"x2" across under the door step, from the bottom door corners of the A panels to keep the door panel from spreading at the bottom.
I like.
Do you have an inside shot with something inside to give us a reference to its size?
If not, make sure to bring that back from the playa!
five.5 yurt.png
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Last edited by Canoe on Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Canoe » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:10 am

Do aluminum foil tape the edges of the panels against MOOP, and breathing that crap.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Canoe » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:14 am

Something funny happened to one of the uploads...

trying again
five.5 yurt dia.png
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Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:17 am

Canoe wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:10 am
Do aluminum foil tape the edges of the panels against MOOP, and breathing that crap.
Oh yeah it's all taped. But I hate to think how much I breathed in building it. :(

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:23 am

Canoe wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:09 am
...
I like.
Do you have an inside shot with something inside to give us a reference to its size?
If not, make sure to bring that back from the playa!
Thank you. I will have to digest all this bit by bit, but I will comment that the vertical stacking I used is the same as in an H13.

I am expecting it will take some on-playa tweaks, but a major design goal was no non-permanent taping.

Kind of hard to capture, but here's an inside shot.

Image

Here are the specs. I don't know some of the numbers for the H13.

Image

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Canoe » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:28 am

Neat shot.

Same stacking, but a lot of panels going on with some odd joins and one extremely involved corner.
bhearn wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:23 am
I am expecting it will take some on-playa tweaks, but a major design goal was no non-permanent taping.
Then skip the non-perm taping and have some extra there if a blow makes you need it.
I would take the pre-cut 2x2s to quickly put in place if there's an issue. It's not permanent tape, but not outside either, easily cut off the surface for disassembly.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

bhearn
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:29 pm

Canoe wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:09 am
I WOULD take two precut 2"x2" or 2"x3", one for each panel to each side of the door, and tape it top to bottom with hexayurt tape, inside the yurt, right up the middle on that green line that splits "A" vertically.
Sorry, 2x2 or 2x3 what? Plywood? Panel? Tape? Inches, or feet?

I will have lots of bifilament tape, aluminum tape, and velcro. I should be able to handle anything that comes up short of irreparable design instability. I just would prefer to do it within the confines of the design goals (e.g., adding more velcro flaps somewhere rather than just taping).

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:38 pm

Canoe wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:28 am
Neat shot.

Same stacking, but a lot of panels going on with some odd joins and one extremely involved corner.
The stacking is interesting, and I've just realized since breaking it down that I think there's a better way to do it. It's currently in four folding sections: walls ABCDE, front/top PQR, and left and right rooves FGHIJ and KLMNO. The latter each fold flat into three-panel-thick blocks. The problem is that attaching F to A during assembly takes pretty good coordination and a bit of luck, as you are holding three panels of weight that want to flop around and trying to align an edge exactly while avoiding velcro getting caught where it shouldn't. Some of this I alleviated by velcroing flaps out of the way when not attached, and by simple cardboard alignment guides. But it's still fiddly. However, I've realized it ought to be be better to just have BCD for the wall section, and permanently hinge A to F (and E to O on the far side). If this is true I can ease assembly anyway by joining the AF edge while the FGHIJ block is on the ground.

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:10 pm

Three days in, so far so good! I arrived after the big whiteout, but we had a fair amount of wind today.

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Canoe
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Canoe » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:23 pm

Looking good!

And like it might pop out of its harness if it got a good blast on its back end?

Seeing the chair, table and step-ladder sure shows how tall that is!

I for one would be interested in seeing some shots from other angles.
(and one of that shower off to the right?...)

How are you finding the usability of the size/shape inside?
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

bhearn
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:30 am

Home safe and sound now; it survived unscathed. Space/usability was excellent. The only minor issue is that the velcro adhesive came loose in a couple of places. Not enough to cause any problems, and it was easily reattached, but I was warned it is heat sensitive. An additional adhesive (E6000 was recommended) would be advisable if anyone else wants to build this.

Yes it looks like it might pop out of the harness, but it was very secure. But next time I will use a slightly longer rope halo.

Here are lots more pics, both from the playa and of design and construction:

https://www.facebook.com/robert.hearn/p ... 6739543996

I'll be making an Appropedia page (where yurt designs go) shortly, and I hope others will build it. I'm especially interested to see it built without beveling, which is the most tedious part, now that we know at least that it's solid with beveling.

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Canoe » Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:02 pm

WOW!

So much strength and stability with a full plywood back/frame to the door.
The attention to detail in getting those bevel angles!
Great idea for getting the angles correct, AND in cutting them correctly. And easily?
I LOLed when I saw that the roof top was folded down over the door.

Did you have any heavy wind dead on the door, to see how that shed/flowed around it?

Any shots inside of the swamp-cooler?
Where was your yurt's exhaust for the swamp-cooler?
How did it perform for that size of yurt?
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

krly
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by krly » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:10 pm

Bob, a bit off topic...buy do you know what size Kodiak tent that was next to you ? Thanks.......

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by lucky420 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:35 pm

krly wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:10 pm
Bob, a bit off topic...buy do you know what size Kodiak tent that was next to you ? Thanks.......


Good question, it looks tiny :D
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:52 pm

krly wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:10 pm
Bob, a bit off topic...buy do you know what size Kodiak tent that was next to you ? Thanks.......
I do, because I used the same tent before my wife said we NEED something cooler and I switched to the yurt. Footprint is 10'x10'.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001O02TK4

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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by bhearn » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:11 pm

Canoe wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:02 pm
Great idea for getting the angles correct, AND in cutting them correctly. And easily?
Well there are many harder ways to do it, anyway. :-) I got the idea from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Xe0cJNCTo

In my case it was not quite as smooth as in the video, as I was reusing panels with existing tape on them that had to be cut through.

Did you have any heavy wind dead on the door, to see how that shed/flowed around it?
The biggest wind was the night before we arrived, but we had some decent wind. I didn't pay attention to the direction though.

Any shots inside of the swamp-cooler?
Actually you helped me with the swamp cooler design last year:

https://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic ... 0#p1144171

Where was your yurt's exhaust for the swamp-cooler?
How did it perform for that size of yurt?
I used a marine solar-powered vent fan in the top, flat roof panel. Perhaps insufficient (4" dia. hole), but it was a cool year and I was very comfortable.

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Canoe
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Re: The 5-1/2 yurt

Post by Canoe » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:09 am

bhearn wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:11 pm
Canoe wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:02 pm
Great idea for getting the angles correct, AND in cutting them correctly. And easily?
Well there are many harder ways to do it, anyway. :-) I got the idea from here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Xe0cJNCTo
In my case it was not quite as smooth as in the video, as I was reusing panels with existing tape on them that had to be cut through.
wow
Does that every make a case for bevelling the edges, if you can keep them undamaged getting to/from the playa.
More rigidity and no/low gap makes for much more tape gripping the surface of the panels.
bhearn wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:11 pm
Any shots inside of the swamp-cooler?
Actually you helped me with the swamp cooler design last year:
LOL
That style is tricky to get right. I was hoping you did as good a job as that guy... then it's you.
bhearn wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:11 pm
Where was your yurt's exhaust for the swamp-cooler?
How did it perform for that size of yurt?
I used a marine solar-powered vent fan in the top, flat roof panel. Perhaps insufficient (4" dia. hole), but it was a cool year and I was very comfortable.
That's what that was. Great you had it at the top where it's exhausting the hottest air.
Powered exhausts can end up not keeping up with the Endless Breeze. Risk of even impeding air exhausting compared to out a simple hole. And trying to exhaust more than the swamp-cooler is pushing in can result in a negative pressure inside the yurt, drawing in hot dusty air through any air leaks. With a passive exhaust, you're ensured a positive air pressure, so air inside slowly leaks out any air leaks, thereby blocking hot dusty air getting in.
If you go for a larger exhaust, you could put it on the door frame at the top. Better for rain? Not that its common.
You could even go for a dryer exhaust style flap that you put on after assembling the yurt; closed when the swamp-cooler isn't running, and closes against a strong wind that would force dust inside.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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