Good sound buffer for generators?

Lonesomebri · Post by **Lonesomebri** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:14 am

As an positive example of generator use, my neighbor, Spaghetti Taco Camp, set up next to me and placed right outside my tent door a playpen with a baby in it. The Burn for me is like going to Hooters, I don't want some kid there watching me ogle the flesh while I get sloppy drunk. I don't want to be some bad example to children, that is what sports figures and celebrities are for. Out of my pay scale. So, with terrific humor the gods of snark had placed a baby on my doorstep at Burning Man.

Turned out the baby's wailing canceled out the generator's sound frequencies creating a soothing white noise. No, but seriously I never heard the kid, no issue...
That evening, thankfully, they removed the baby in front of my tent door......and replaced it with some huge ass generator. It was so funny.

Appreciating the random humor of fate, this was hilarious to me, and I was happy it happened in a way. It was their camp's first night on playa though, and the generator was inside a baffle box they had packed with foam board... Sometime during the next 12 hours I heard them discussing generator placement and running times; this was something that mattered to them and that they would control, it sounded like. After that, I was never bothered by the sound of a generator from their camp. They knew, and cared, what they were doing. I thanked them ("Hey, thanks for moving the damn baby and generator"), which they took as me getting in their biz, so they put some shade on me, which made me appreciate them even more....

I've camped next to 2 RVs with 4 people who didn't come out much, and who placed a loud ass generator on our side of their rigs, ran it all 24/6, over-riding the sound camps distant boom every god-damned night. Meanwhile, here this huge interactive camp does it right. Their camp did alot on the street, every day. No generator hassle. And I had no complaint about the baby's presence once I met the mother of the infant; she could kick my ass from Center Camp to next Wednesday and back.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:26 am

At this year's Burn, I became convinced that the Honda EU-series generators become louder with age. My guess would be that the innards of the mufflers burn out. They are still vastly quieter than some of the awful noisy ones, but not as whisper-quiet as when they were new.

Does anyone have a way of comparing new and old units side by side?

Does anyone know an expert on these generators?

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:37 am

Elliot wrote:At this year's Burn, I became convinced that the Honda EU-series generators become louder with age. My guess would be that the innards of the mufflers burn out. They are still vastly quieter than some of the awful noisy ones, but not as whisper-quiet as when they were new.

Does anyone have a way of comparing new and old units side by side?

Does anyone know an expert on these generators?

I've noticed that they wear out a little too. My EU3000is has been to the burn 5 or 6 times and it's definitely showing age. It doesn't start up as easily as it did when it was new and it idles pretty rough for the first couple of minutes. I haven't noticed it getting all that much louder, but it doesn't ramp up for high loads as easily as it did before. If I ask it for over 2,000 watts then I usually need to turn off the eco mode and put it on full power. When it was new it didn't do any of that stuff. All that said, the generator was once used off-playa for a decent chunk of the year, now it just sits in storage for 11 months of the year. I start it up every now and then to make sure the fuel doesn't turn to crud inside the engine and lines, but otherwise it just sits around. Maybe it needs a really really through cleaning/service. All I ever do for it is install an annual air filter.

As a funny side note, I really think that sitting in storage does more harm to it than running it at Burning Man. I think it was actually running better at the end of the week than it was at the beginning. I ran it about 18 hours per day, all week, just to keep our chest freezer cold. Maybe the occasional margarita.

It ran like a champ and I think we used all of 15 gallons of gas.

maladroit · Post by **maladroit** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:03 pm

bm_cricket wrote:All that said, the generator was once used off-playa for a decent chunk of the year, now it just sits in storage for 11 months of the year. I start it up every now and then to make sure the fuel doesn't turn to crud inside the engine and lines, but otherwise it just sits around. Maybe it needs a really really through cleaning/service. All I ever do for it is install an annual air filter.

That was going to be my question...what yearly maintenance you do. Ouch. Not even changing or topping off the oil?

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:07 pm

maladroit wrote:
bm_cricket wrote:All that said, the generator was once used off-playa for a decent chunk of the year, now it just sits in storage for 11 months of the year. I start it up every now and then to make sure the fuel doesn't turn to crud inside the engine and lines, but otherwise it just sits around. Maybe it needs a really really through cleaning/service. All I ever do for it is install an annual air filter.
That was going to be my question...what yearly maintenance you do. Ouch. Not even changing or topping off the oil?

In the past I did the oil every 3-6 months. Now that it only gets used at burning man I... Got lazy. About every two years. It doesn't "look" bad.

GreyCoyote · Post by **GreyCoyote** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:20 pm

Throttle response issues due to load changes are invariably linked to just a few things:

1). Carb gunk. The passages are unbelievably tiny. A spec of dirt smaller than many can see with do this. Even a light film of varnish will do it. Pull the carb and have it professionally serviced.

2). Bad fuel. Drain, flush, replace with fresh using a stabilizer.

3). Worn sparkplug. Easy fix. You should change it every 2 or 3 oil changes anyway.

4). Valve lash. Retards the opening and advances the closing making for less area under the curve. Makes a big difference in response when it is right.

5). Ring/valve wear (compression loss). Old engines are going to suffer, but it takes very little to drop a new head on there and refresh the ring stack. Note that running a full synthetic and changing oil every 25 to 50 hours should prevent 90% of this wear once the engine has been broken-in. A little upper cylinder lube never hurts either.

6). Carbon buildup in combustion chamber. Usually requires head removal to fix, but a spray bottle of alcohol/water mixture, or acetone/ATF fluid may work. (Controversial).

GreyCoyote · Post by **GreyCoyote** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:28 pm

bm_cricket wrote: In the past I did the oil every 3-6 months. Now that it only gets used at burning man I... Got lazy. About every two years. It doesn't "look" bad.

Ouch. Looks are not diagnostic. You either pay a little to maintain it as you use it, or you pay a lot to overhaul it. With a full synthetic oil you shouldnt be pushing it past 50-ish hours on the playa. On dino oil, about half of that. Increase those numbers by half in Defaultia maybe, but oil is so cheap, and they take so little of it, its hard to argue with frequent changes.

This year we ran 24/7 and changed oil (Mobil 1 synthetic) every two days. Took about 10 minutes, and the gennys never missed a beat.

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:43 pm

GreyCoyote wrote:
bm_cricket wrote: In the past I did the oil every 3-6 months. Now that it only gets used at burning man I... Got lazy. About every two years. It doesn't "look" bad.
Ouch. Looks are not diagnostic. You either pay a little to maintain it as you use it, or you pay a lot to overhaul it. With a full synthetic oil you shouldnt be pushing it past 50-ish hours on the playa. On dino oil, about half of that. Increase those numbers by half in Defaultia maybe, but oil is so cheap, and they take so little of it, its hard to argue with frequent changes.

This year we ran 24/7 and changed oil (Mobil 1 synthetic) every two days. Took about 10 minutes, and the gennys never missed a beat.

You convinced me. I have no desire to replace this thing any time soon so I'm going to make some big changes to my service routine. Thanks for the detailed advice on the performance issues too! I'll probably just being it to a local service shop and see what they can suggest. It still runs pretty well but it sure as heck isn't new any more.

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:04 pm

And you have a good point about the cost of oil. It doesn't even scratch the surface of a full rebuild or worse yet, replacing it.

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:19 am

(Only slight thread drift.)
I finally replaced the spark plug on my EU3000, and I found it difficult. I used a common spark plug socket and a straight extension, but the space is very tight and it is not a straight shot, so the tool kept jamming against other parts. A very thin-walled socket is called for, and likewise a universal joint.

As for the annual 11 month storage, I siphon out almost all the fuel, add a splash of Sta-Bil, then let it run itself dry.

New topic: Would its operation be affected by the fact that the battery is long kaput? Would that add to the load while running -- trying to charge a stone-dead battery? I could replace the battery, but it starts just fine with the pull-cord.

GreyCoyote · Post by **GreyCoyote** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:34 pm

The battery is pretty much a non-issue when the "starter" is a healthy strappin' lad like yourself. The parasitic load to charge it is uber tiny. I think the charger circuit on the 3000 is rated at about 1.2 amps, or 15-ish watts. Completely undetectable by the genny.

As to the plug changing fiasco, plonk down $5 for a dedicated spark plug wrench with a t-handle and universal joint and permanently attached socket. Really works well, and it doesnt wander off for other duties when you are not watching.

I think your genny needs to be load tested to see what ismgoing on. The exhaust note was off, and it didnt seem to be exclusively a muffler issue. I suspect an emulsion tube issue since it starts fine but eats gas, but you will have to pull the carb out to really know. (We didnt even try to troubleshoot this on the playa because there was no way to do it in the dust unless you are trying to kill a genny completely. Hehehe).

What did the old plug look like when you replaced it? Any blackness at all on the threads or insulator bottom?

Elliot · Post by **Elliot** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:53 pm

No, the old plug looked gorgeous -- clean tan with light brown edges. I think the extra fuel was burned to light the 600 Watts of incandescent bulbs, which I left on around the clock before you arrived. I had no idea it was as much as 600 Watts.

spacetime · Post by **spacetime** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:55 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:As an positive example of generator use, my neighbor, Spaghetti Taco Camp...

I had the opportunity to hang out with these folks on Sunday. I was fascinated with different camp structures by the end of the burn, so when I saw their Tipi and parachute I had to ask about it. It was a great interaction, they shared a bunch about the details of their setup. They also fed me soup.

I recall a specific comment that they were concerned about their boxed generator, wanting to improve the box and get a newer, quieter generator. Since we were talking about camp infrastructure it was at front of mind for them as something to improve. Cool peeps.

mooserider · Post by **mooserider** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:18 am

Greetings, all.

I hope some of you might have already worked on this problem and can offer advice to a noob.

I'm hoping to be a first-timer in 2015, and so am preparing my motor home well in advance. Yeah, I'm not a spring chicken any more, so I'd like to rough it in comfort and not have my food spoil, plus have the cargo capacity to carry sufficient supplies to be able to gift (and haul my MOOP away afterwards). The RV's on-board diesel generator (an Onan) is much quieter than the noisy construction-grade Generac I have at my house (leaving that noisy beast home!), but it's still not silent (as a wimp relative made us discover when he couldn't camp in the Canadian wilderness without A/C, so we had to keep the generator running all night and couldn't hear the loons screaming on the lake

). However, the genset is permanently attached to the motor home chassis (under the floor in the front of this diesel pusher), so I'm trying to figure how to build a baffle box underneath the vehicle to still damp the generator noise some more (doesn't have to be a mobile box; I can shove it under when I make camp and take it out before I leave), and also cut down on the amount of dust that might get blown at the air intake. I can't vent the noise straight up, because that is the solid metal floor of the passenger compartment (might be able to vent it to the front grill and then straight up past the windshield). Also, would building such a device be a waste considering that the genset's exhaust tailpipe sticks out of the corner of the front wheelwell? Or should I build a second baffle around the end of the exhaust pipe?

I'm assuming plywood and shag carpeting (if I can't get acoustical foam) for the physical structure of a box (artistic looks irrelevant since it would be underneath the vehicle out of sight). Would I need to add forced-air ventilation to ensure the genset doesn't overheat in this semi-confined space? I have a large collection of boxer fans (from old computer chassis) in my junkbox if needed. Unfortunately, there aren't any gauges attached to the generator (just the running light and the hour meter) to verify generator condition, though I could add some in my telemetry project I'm also working on.

Hopefully, I won't need to run the genset too often (I'm bringing solar as well), but if I need heavy power for appliances or A/C, I'd like to be a considerate neighbor while I'm using it.

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:41 am

apavlin wrote:Greetings, all.

I hope some of you might have already worked on this problem and can offer advice to a noob....

Welcome!

Thanks for making the effort with your generator. I've usually been impressed by how quiet RV mounted generators are compared to their cheap contractor brothers, but every little bit helps. If you are only going to use this RV for Burning Man, then you can get a few pieces of plywood and make a little box to make a sound barrier around the side of your RV with the generator. It will help a little bit, at at least bounce most of the noise back at YOU instead of out at your neighbors. It will make you disinclined to leave it running so often..... Be sure that you secure it so the plywood doesn't take off in the wind....

If you actually use this RV the rest of the year (It sound like you do) then you can get acoustical foam from someplace like this: http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/acoustical-foam

The real foam material, especially the egg-crate style, or the bi-layered stuff works great and I use it at work. The prices are higher than a sheet of plywood but it really cuts down on noise. Your generator probably came with big rubber mountings to dampen vibration from your chassis. They are sometimes called "isolation pads". If it's old, or it's been replaced, then the rubber feet may be gone or worn out. Your whole RV probably vibrates when it runs and that make it a little louder. Those rubber feet aren't that expensive and can help a lot. Read this page for tips on making really nice enclosures: http://www.acousticsblog.com/2012/sound ... d-widgets/

I don't have experience making mufflers for RV generators but they do sell them. You could ask around at a local RV shop for advice.

BTW, you are totally right about ventilation and air flow. What ever you do, just remember that carbon monoxide needs to go outside of the RV chassis, not get trapped under floor boards, etc. And your generator needs plenty of fresh air to run properly. It sucks if the generator overheats..... I suggest that anything you design/build should be easy to implement if you are tired or not thinking clearly. Don't make it so you've got to climb under the RV to open a trap door, or some other weird thing every time you use the generator... It won't happen every time and the time you forget is the time your generator overheats.

mooserider · Post by **mooserider** » Mon May 04, 2015 8:33 am

Has anybody tried this generator exhaust pipe extender? Does it actually work to reduce noise and fumes, or is it just a marketing ploy?

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/it ... stem/14041

I'm considering getting one, but I'd like to know if it is going to work before I waste money and transport space on it.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Mon May 04, 2015 9:07 am

Most of the noise from a cheap genny is mechanical.

My first year I brought a genny "just in case".

I went to a motorcycle shop and got a whisper quiet muffler off a new bike that they had put custom pipes on.

Adding that to the existing muffler on the genny didn't reduce the noise enough to even be noticed, because of the mechanical racket of the engine.

This was NOT a cheap genny, but a Poster Cable 2500 made for construction sites.

mooserider · Post by **mooserider** » Mon May 04, 2015 11:02 am

My genny isn't cheap, it's a high-quality Onan permanently attached to my RV. But anything to make it even quieter....

Captain Goddammit · Post by **Captain Goddammit** » Mon May 04, 2015 11:48 am

The exhaust pipe is a good idea more for fume reasons than sound.
I doubt it'll do much for the noise, as has been noted, most of it is radiated from the engine rather than coming from the exhaust. I've tried car and motorcycle mufflers and even running the exhaust into a garbage can full of water. The loud sets are still loud.
Insulating them does a lot. You could Dynamat the generator compartment.

Zubeneschamali · Post by **Zubeneschamali** » Mon May 04, 2015 11:49 am

apavlin wrote:Has anybody tried this generator exhaust pipe extender? Does it actually work to reduce noise and fumes, or is it just a marketing ploy?

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/it ... stem/14041

I'm considering getting one, but I'd like to know if it is going to work before I waste money and transport space on it.

Yes, used it on the Onan in my RV to direct the exhaust fumes up up and away, which it did very well. The noise difference was minimal. Mostly noticed it when on the passenger side, it lowered the exhaust hum down to a whisper and I usually forgot it was running. On the driver side it didn't do that much, same for inside.

Jackass · Post by **Jackass** » Mon May 04, 2015 2:46 pm

apavlin wrote:Has anybody tried this generator exhaust pipe extender? Does it actually work to reduce noise and fumes, or is it just a marketing ploy?

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/it ... stem/14041

I'm considering getting one, but I'd like to know if it is going to work before I waste money and transport space on it.

I actually made one for a friend of mine, worked off their ad pics and made my own replica. They actually work very well to carry away fumes and noise. I did a lot of smoke and light dynamic testing...

Katajojo · Post by **Katajojo** » Sun May 15, 2016 1:21 pm

Someone said to keep tge generator between two cars and inside the camp. Well, Im a newbie and i dont have a camp with anyone else, so will be alone, and I only have my single truck. How big is the area i will have? Where do i put the generator so no one will "sabotage it?" Its a 53db invertor. If i get an ill content neighbor, can i just move? I wont argue with anyone, im going to make friends not waste time fussing, so is moving an option?

ygmir · Post by **ygmir** » Sun May 15, 2016 3:27 pm

a pallet, close spacing, make a a good baffle floor, has ventilation, and is a thing to hold the box together and nail to.

bm_cricket · Post by **bm_cricket** » Sun May 15, 2016 9:21 pm

I have had good luck with building 4 sided boxes to go all around it except the top and bottom... so it is open to the sky and the ground but enclosed on the sides. Build it about 1-foot taller than the generator and you will 1) not be able to see it from a distance and 2) reduce much of the noise. The down side of this design is that the generator is still in the sun.... and that's not super cool. Depending on how handy you are with plywood you could make a "hat" to cover the generator. Just be sure that any design you come up with has enough air flow that it won't overheat!

BBadger · Post by **BBadger** » Mon May 16, 2016 2:49 am

Katajojo wrote:Someone said to keep tge generator between two cars and inside the camp. Well, Im a newbie and i dont have a camp with anyone else, so will be alone, and I only have my single truck. How big is the area i will have? Where do i put the generator so no one will "sabotage it?" Its a 53db invertor. If i get an ill content neighbor, can i just move? I wont argue with anyone, im going to make friends not waste time fussing, so is moving an option?

Is this a Honda EU-series generator or Yamaha from the specs you're mentioning above? 53 dB for those gennies is actually not that loud as far as generators are concerned, about normal conversation loud. Usually what happens is that someone buys a cheap-ass generator from a hardware store that sounds like a lawnmower at like 80-90 dB. Those definitely need baffling, which may be cheaper than just buying a better, quieter generator. If you want to further isolate the sound you could put it near your vehicle on the side that is more on the "interior" of your camp space and maybe build the baffles as described above. Also be sure to lock your generator to your vehicle with a cable to prevent theft (yes, it can happen).

It is unlikely that people will sabotage your generator, at least not arbitrarily. That privilege is reserved for people who are either unwilling to be neighborly when the subject of their generator noise is brought up, or are such obvious douchebags with regards to their public conduct, such as aiming the sound of their generators away from their own camps at the expense of everyone else. It doesn't sound like you're in that latter category.

As far as your camp space goes, you're not isolated to your truck and its space. You should also consider setting up other stuff around your vehicle, especially a shade structure to keep cool. Then your generator + baffles can be nearby to that.

Katajojo · Post by **Katajojo** » Mon May 16, 2016 5:02 pm

Was thinking of just putting it inside the backseat of the truck on a platform, and venting it with a metal flex hose out the window. Lead reflective sheeting on the windows would dampen the sound considerably, and reflect sun off the generator. Cheapest so far.

EGAZ · Post by **EGAZ** » Mon May 16, 2016 6:00 pm

That sounds like a fire waiting to happen.

Post a pic of your genny. I think your are over thinking this. This, coming from a Burgin who over thinks everything!!

Did you decide to bring the RV or the truck? If the RV how are you hauling the genny?

Post by **AntiM** » Mon May 16, 2016 6:10 pm

A open topped wooden box lined with carpet, which can be taken apart and hauled flat. Easy peasy. Ours has a top, but it is full of holes (genny goes to regionals only, we camp in Hushville to avoid um, generators).

GreyCoyote · Post by **GreyCoyote** » Mon May 16, 2016 10:07 pm

At 53 db, you're below the background noise field. Nobody will hear it. I SLEEP 20'feet from my honda EU2000 and have sat bolt upright from a deep sleep because I couldnt hear it running and paniced. After a minute, I could hear it again so was able to drift back to sleep.

Seriously, no worries. BM is rather loud most nights. 53 db is NOTHING.

Funny bit: last year a campmate and I needed to have a discussion about infrastructure ideas, and our campmates were making noise... so we retired to the corner of the camp and SAT ON THE HONDAS for peace and quiet.

Skuzzy61 · Post by **Skuzzy61** » Tue May 17, 2016 4:03 am

I see a lot of suggestions for an external/portable generator, but what about one that is built into an RV? Our rental has an Onan 4000 (Whisper Quiet??) model.

Any suggestions to help make it unobtrusive, other than never starting it?

I have yet to hear out loud it is. It is built into a Fleetwood Tioga 26Q RV.

Good sound buffer for generators?

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